Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1
    Mechagnome Sareth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Scotland, UK.
    Posts
    710

    I'm stupid and I need your help with gemming and reforging.

    (Arms)

    No two guides say the same thing.
    Almost every single person I've looked up use different gems in different slots.
    Every guide I've checked says different things.

    I'm an idiot when it comes to this crap.

    Can you please help me? (If there is such a thing as a good warrior guide, because I'm beginning to imagine that everyone that makes a guide is just making it up as they go.)
    Last edited by Sareth; 2012-10-05 at 03:05 PM.
    'Lord Sargeras, sweep your molten fist through this world, so that it may be reborn in flames and darkness!'
    'So the light's vaunted justice has finally arrived.'
    'Boldly said. But I remain...unconvinced.'

    My Warrior

  2. #2
    Mechagnome chaddd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    24 Hours of Lemons track
    Posts
    640
    Just use Ask Mr. Robot then and stop reading. You also don't state if you are looking for DPS or tanking advice. There are also 2 guides stuck to the top of this forum you can read, if you really want some reading materials.

  3. #3
    Mechagnome Sareth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Scotland, UK.
    Posts
    710
    Quote Originally Posted by chaddd View Post
    Just use Ask Mr. Robot then and stop reading. You also don't state if you are looking for DPS or tanking advice. There are also 2 guides stuck to the top of this forum you can read, if you really want some reading materials.
    No, because Ask Mr.Robot tells me to do stuff that isn't on any guide I've ever read.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-05 at 04:47 PM ----------

    Sigh. Is there no warrior guide that actually has information that is used by at least one more person other than the person that made the guide? :/
    'Lord Sargeras, sweep your molten fist through this world, so that it may be reborn in flames and darkness!'
    'So the light's vaunted justice has finally arrived.'
    'Boldly said. But I remain...unconvinced.'

    My Warrior

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Sareth View Post
    Sigh. Is there no warrior guide that actually has information that is used by at least one more person other than the person that made the guide? :/
    Take it easy. You see, the reason no guide says the same exact thing is because it's not that simple anymore. You're essentially chasing a cookie cutter build that doesn't exist. Instead of skimming through a guide looking for a clear cut reforge or/and gem formula you should read the guide and what they're trying to tell you, then take a look at the bosses you're intending to tank and make your decision based off of that. I used dual stamina trinkets and stamina serpent eyes for Elegon for example since a lot of the heavy damage (breath at high stacks or pulsating AoE in last phase) is magical and switched to a mastery trinket for Will of the Emperor because they melee quite hard.

    And personally i like hit and expertise capped because, let's take Elegon again as an example, i want to be sure to get a full 60 rage shield barrier up for the breath when i am at high stacks and there's a greater chance i will miss a shield slam if i'm not, so that's my reasoning. Some tanks though will probably disagree maybe because they're doing the boss differently, have different healers or simply disagree because they like to disagree.

    Here is my armory although i don't think it'll help too much if the guides don't do anything for you. http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Teks/advanced

    EDIT: Oh right, arms. Gem full crit lol. Not sure if my full post could help any tank out there who clicks on this topic so i'll just leave it.
    Last edited by Teks; 2012-10-05 at 04:22 PM.

  5. #5
    Don't be a robot. Pick the stat you like and build on it, it's not as if it'll make a big difference. People take the min/maxing sheep mentality too far these days.

  6. #6
    Dreadlord I Knew It's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    939
    Quote Originally Posted by Sareth View Post
    No, because Ask Mr.Robot tells me to do stuff that isn't on any guide I've ever read.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-05 at 04:47 PM ----------

    Sigh. Is there no warrior guide that actually has information that is used by at least one more person other than the person that made the guide? :/
    You claim to be an idiot when it comes to such things yet flame the first person giving you advice. You then proceed to say that Ask Mr Robot is telling you to do stuff that you have no seen in any guides and THEN complain about finding a decent guide.

    You are a confusing one.

    In short, use Ask Mr. Robot

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    Don't be a robot. Pick the stat you like and build on it, it's not as if it'll make a big difference. People take the min/maxing sheep mentality too far these days.
    Thanks for the good laugh.

  8. #8
    Mechagnome chaddd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    24 Hours of Lemons track
    Posts
    640
    Quote Originally Posted by Sareth View Post
    No, because Ask Mr.Robot tells me to do stuff that isn't on any guide I've ever read.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-05 at 04:47 PM ----------

    Sigh. Is there no warrior guide that actually has information that is used by at least one more person other than the person that made the guide? :/
    Not sure what you want then because every guide for fury should have about the same information in it, and it should be:

    hit=exp (7.5%) to not miss your yellow attacks > crit > str > mast > hit to 27% > haste.

    You want to see a warrior following that? http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...dsoul/advanced There ya go. Now looking back I see that you updated your original post to say arms. Here's the guide for that. Get in all heroic gear and go SMF or TG. Are you going to take a year to gear up in heroics? If so, you can still reforge/gem to the same stat weights as fury and do well. With the level you are on, and we know because you are so confused and asking here, it won't matter what you do really. I don't say that to be offensive in any way, but if you want to to do hit=exp>crit or hit=exp>str... it won't make a 30% difference in your playstyle. You don't have to use Mr. Robot. If you don't have a spreadsheet you are working of, and very confused as you say, then use robot. It is not 30% DPS off the mark.
    Last edited by chaddd; 2012-10-05 at 05:19 PM.

  9. #9
    Mr. Robot has completely off stat weights as default.

    The reason nobody can give you a definite answer is that the answer is heavily dependant on your own gear, so you either learn how to figure out stat weights for yourself or you use suboptimal reforging/gemming strats that are provided by guides and tools like Ask Mr. Robot.

    If you're at BiS heroic gear, it's STR >> Crit (meaning you don't want pure crit gems yet) > Haste > Mastery. As you can see, this is very different from Mr. Robot's STR > Crit (crit is over half the value of STR, so Crit gems are ok) > Mastery > Haste.
    Cairne wanted to thank him again, to offer encouragement, praise for a task so successfully completed. For being able to bear such burdens. But Saurfang was an orc, not a blood elf, and lavish compliments and effusion would not be welcomed or wanted.

  10. #10
    Mechagnome Sareth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Scotland, UK.
    Posts
    710
    Quote Originally Posted by chaddd View Post
    Not sure what you want then because every guide for fury should have about the same information in it, and it should be:

    hit=exp (7.5%) to not miss your yellow attacks > crit > str > mast > hit to 27% > haste.

    You want to see a warrior following that? http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...dsoul/advanced There ya go. Now looking back I see that you updated your original post to say arms. Here's the guide for that. Get in all heroic gear and go SMF or TG. Are you going to take a year to gear up in heroics? If so, you can still reforge/gem to the same stat weights as fury and do well. With the level you are on, and we know because you are so confused and asking here, it won't matter what you do really. I don't say that to be offensive in any way, but if you want to to do hit=exp>crit or hit=exp>str... it won't make a 30% difference in your playstyle. You don't have to use Mr. Robot. If you don't have a spreadsheet you are working of, and very confused as you say, then use robot. It is not 30% DPS off the mark.
    It's not about stat priority. It's not hard to understand Hit, exp cap then strength and crit. I just want to know how to do it. It makes no sense. Do I achieve hit and exp cap from gems or reforging? It's stuff like that I don't understand. Do I always change mastery to exp or hit or not reforge at all? Believe it or not, that's what some people say. Apparently I shouldn't touch mastery...what the hell? I see some people gemming strenght, some people gemming exp and hit, some people gemming crit. Some people say, 'oh, put exp+crit' in your BiS heroic red shoulder socket', others say differently, and others just shove a strength in there.

    It's ridiculous.

    Edit: I got a polite message from someone telling me that I should not achieve exp/hit cap through gemming, and thus get capped via reforging. Which is exactly the opposite of what I've been told to do by other people. Seriously, I've been told the above AND 'Don't reforge mastery for exp/hit, and you should get exp gems.' Now can you see why I'm confused?
    Last edited by Sareth; 2012-10-05 at 06:19 PM.
    'Lord Sargeras, sweep your molten fist through this world, so that it may be reborn in flames and darkness!'
    'So the light's vaunted justice has finally arrived.'
    'Boldly said. But I remain...unconvinced.'

    My Warrior

  11. #11
    Mechagnome chaddd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    24 Hours of Lemons track
    Posts
    640
    It's a game of getting the most bang for your buck if you have to reforge. This will change with each piece of gear you add and there is no 100% right answer all the time because it will change based on what you are currently wearing. Just start working on the numbers you know you need, hit/exp yellow caps (7.5%). You may have to undo some reforges along the way but hey, its just gold. Start from the bottom up on stats possibly, changing all your haste to hit/exp and then mastery. Now where do you stand? You probably don't want to touch your crit. You may have to gem into hit/exp in low gear to make the caps. This expansion the hit/exp are double stats of primary gems (str/int/agi). So you can get some 300+ hit/exp gems in and that's going to make a big dent in the required %.

  12. #12
    Mechagnome Sareth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Scotland, UK.
    Posts
    710
    Quote Originally Posted by chaddd View Post
    It's a game of getting the most bang for your buck if you have to reforge. This will change with each piece of gear you add and there is no 100% right answer all the time because it will change based on what you are currently wearing. Just start working on the numbers you know you need, hit/exp yellow caps (7.5%). You may have to undo some reforges along the way but hey, its just gold. Start from the bottom up on stats possibly, changing all your haste to hit/exp and then mastery. Now where do you stand? You probably don't want to touch your crit. You may have to gem into hit/exp in low gear to make the caps. This expansion the hit/exp are double stats of primary gems (str/int/agi). So you can get some 300+ hit/exp gems in and that's going to make a big dent in the required %.
    Right.

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ithus/advanced

    What should I put in my shoulder?

    (A clear example will help me)
    'Lord Sargeras, sweep your molten fist through this world, so that it may be reborn in flames and darkness!'
    'So the light's vaunted justice has finally arrived.'
    'Boldly said. But I remain...unconvinced.'

    My Warrior

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Sareth View Post
    Right.

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ithus/advanced

    What should I put in my shoulder?

    (A clear example will help me)
    First, get a mod called ReforgeLite , it is great, it will reforge everything to optimally get you to 7.5 hit / exp the best it can.

    Second, currently you are missing some exp, for now put in an Exp gem in your shoulders and in any other slots until you are capped. Once you get other gear that gets you to cap by itself without gems, replace the gems for crit / str ones as long as it doesn't bring you below cap.

  14. #14
    Mechagnome Sareth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Scotland, UK.
    Posts
    710
    This is what I've decided after trying to think about it as simply as I can.

    1. Get EXP/Hit capped by reforging (as much as possible), mainly changing mastery. (?)
    2. Gem for strength and crit, mainly, and maybe a few exp/hit gems if I need them.
    3. Enchant fairly straight forward, picking what seems to be the best.

    If you disagree, I'd love/need to hear why.
    Last edited by Sareth; 2012-10-05 at 07:16 PM.
    'Lord Sargeras, sweep your molten fist through this world, so that it may be reborn in flames and darkness!'
    'So the light's vaunted justice has finally arrived.'
    'Boldly said. But I remain...unconvinced.'

    My Warrior

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Sareth View Post
    This is what I've decided after trying to think about it as simply as I can.

    1. Get EXP/Hit capped by reforging (as much as possible), mainly changing mastery. (?)
    2. Gem for strength and crit, mainly, and maybe a few exp/hit gems if I need them.
    3. Enchant fairly straight forward, picking what seems to be the best.

    If you disagree, I'd love/need to hear why.
    More or less , yes. At 463 gear levels you will most likely need to gem and reforge for hit / exp depending on what the gear has.

    Looking at professions I would drop JC and pickup blacksmithing as well.

  16. #16
    Mechagnome chaddd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    24 Hours of Lemons track
    Posts
    640
    Quote Originally Posted by Sareth View Post
    This is what I've decided after trying to think about it as simply as I can.

    1. Get EXP/Hit capped by reforging (as much as possible), mainly changing mastery. (?)
    2. Gem for strength and crit, mainly, and maybe a few exp/hit gems if I need them.
    3. Enchant fairly straight forward, picking what seems to be the best.

    If you disagree, I'd love/need to hear why.
    Not disagree but start with haste as it's worse than mastery. Your helm has some haste you can convert to expertise, as well as your belt, boots, rings. Do mast -> exp on your other ring and see where that lands you.

    If you are then hit/exp capped I would start working on crit. Yellow +320 in your helm socket and an inscribed vermilion onyx in your shoulder (80str/160crit). That will have you in fairly decent shape until you replace your greens and items below ivl 463. Remember as you add higher ilvl items you will be getting larger chunks of stats (more +hit/exp) w/o the reforge. Looks good, just keep plugging away.

  17. #17
    Mechagnome Sareth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Scotland, UK.
    Posts
    710
    Okay thank you. Is there a list of all 90 gems anywhere, by the way?
    Last edited by Sareth; 2012-10-05 at 09:36 PM.
    'Lord Sargeras, sweep your molten fist through this world, so that it may be reborn in flames and darkness!'
    'So the light's vaunted justice has finally arrived.'
    'Boldly said. But I remain...unconvinced.'

    My Warrior

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Sareth View Post
    Okay thank you. Is there a list of all 90 gems, by the way?
    Last time, otherwise Google is your friend.

    http://www.wowhead.com/news=204292/m...afting-preview

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Sareth View Post
    Okay thank you. Is there a list of all 90 gems, by the way?
    http://www.wowhead.com/news=204292/m...view#gems-meta

    (scroll down a bit until you get to the tabbed list)

    The general rule of thumb is to try and get as much hit/expertise as you can from reforging less valuable secondary stats like Mastery and Haste. If you are still under hit cap, then definitely use gems and enchants to achieve the caps.

    Something you should definitely keep in mind is that, even though expertise is a red gem these days, with the MoP's changes to the values of secondary and primary stats on gems, you still get 2x the number of points as you would if it were a primary stat gem. Thus:

    Bold Primordial Ruby = 160 Strength
    Precise Primordial Ruby = 320 Expertise
    Inscribed Vermilian Onyx = 80 Strength / 160 Expertise

    (The above are just examples to illustrate the point, not what gems you should be using).

    Generally speaking, you'll never want to use a Bold gem. Never gem for pure strength (point-for-point, crit is better). If you are expertise capped, and the red socket bonus are worth gemming for, then go ahead and use a Strength hybrid gem, but never pure Strength

    The basic gist:

    If Hit/Expertise capped:
    - Smooth Sun's Radiance in everything, except for the requirements for your meta, in which you can use Inscribed Tiger Opals to activate it, or you have a really good socket bonus.

    If under Expertise cap:
    - Precise Primordial Rubies or Crafty Vermilian Onyxes, depending on the amount of expertise you still need, especially in red sockets with good bonuses. These will also work towards activating your meta, so you shouldn't have to worry about that.

    If under Hit cap:
    - Rigid River's Hearts or Piercing Wild Jades until, depending on the amount of hit you still need, especially in blue sockets with good bonuses.

    From there, just try to get the most out of everything. Point-for-point, until Hit and Expertise capped, both are more valuable than anything else. Past that, Crit is more powerful that Strength. At current gear levels, I don't believe a socket bonus of strength will be good enough to purposely gem for outside of meta requirements for Fury, but I believe I recall that the gap between crit and strength is much smaller for Arms, in which case gemming for strength socket bonuses may be worth it (but never with a pure strength gem)

    EDIT: Disregard my post. Apparently things have changed recently for arms and Crit's no longer more important than Strength. Though if you ever want to try fury, all of the above still holds true!
    Last edited by Veyne; 2012-10-05 at 09:40 PM. Reason: Outdated Information

  20. #20
    Mechagnome Sareth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Scotland, UK.
    Posts
    710
    Quote Originally Posted by Synche View Post
    First, get a mod called ReforgeLite , it is great, it will reforge everything to optimally get you to 7.5 hit / exp the best it can.
    I just tried ReforgeLite. I let it do it's thing (at least I think I did) and it took me to 8.41% exp cap. It also decided to reforge crit for exp on an item when there was mastery on it, and on my helm it chose to reforge crit for exp when there was haste there, what's up with that? And why does it seem to insist I reforge all my gear? That's not needed. I mean, I'm at 7.52 exp right now. I click calculate and do all the stuff again, after removing some unneeded reforgings, and it shows back up that it's going to reforge some crit to exp. I've set it to default preset arms, by the way.

    Can anyone explain this?


    Edit: Sorry, what the hell. I watched a tut and some guy said 'Why would you not want to reforge everything?' Er, since when was this ever the case? I'm at cap right now...why would I want to waste more stats and go over? So frustrating how nothing is ever simple.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-06 at 12:32 PM ----------

    Sigh. Bump.
    Last edited by Sareth; 2012-10-06 at 02:16 AM.
    'Lord Sargeras, sweep your molten fist through this world, so that it may be reborn in flames and darkness!'
    'So the light's vaunted justice has finally arrived.'
    'Boldly said. But I remain...unconvinced.'

    My Warrior

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •