View Poll Results: Happy with your rogue in MoP?

Voters
154. You may not vote on this poll
  • I'm happy

    35 22.73%
  • It's ok but could be better

    82 53.25%
  • Not really satisfied with MoP, guess i'm gonna reroll

    37 24.03%
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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Hayturr View Post
    People are flipping shit for no reason.
    Rogues are excellent in MoP.
    Combat Cleave is beastly for The Stone Guard
    Sub single target dps is tops, Mutilate still hangs around.
    PvE wise at least Rogues are still dominant.
    PvP wise yea I can understand the complaints.
    You have no idea what you are talking about. Yeah combat cleave, as usual, is amazing. However your next point... sub single target dps is tops? What? In my experience (and on WoL) assassination is higher. Not seeing us as beating other classes on WoL for single target. I'm not saying my single target dps is bad atm as I think I'm doing fine, but that you think it is 'tops' and that sub is higher clearly shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    You have no idea what you are talking about. Yeah combat cleave, as usual, is amazing. However your next point... sub single target dps is tops? What? In my experience (and on WoL) assassination is higher. Not seeing us as beating other classes on WoL for single target. I'm not saying my single target dps is bad atm as I think I'm doing fine, but that you think it is 'tops' and that sub is higher clearly shows you have no idea what you are talking about.
    On the other hand, Rogue is never strong at the start of an expansion because it's a gear-dependent class. It's naive to expect Rogues to be top DPS now while we already scales incredibly well with gear/weapons.

    Though I have no idea how good Rogues are. I'm not even 90...

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Synexlol View Post
    On the other hand, Rogue is never strong at the start of an expansion because it's a gear-dependent class. It's naive to expect Rogues to be top DPS now while we already scales incredibly well with gear/weapons.

    Though I have no idea how good Rogues are. I'm not even 90...
    I see what you are saying (though thats not really related to my reply to him) but I also don't think it is wise to just entirely rely on the assumption that it will work itself out in later tiers automatically. Take Cata for example, sure we scaled well, but you also have to consider the massive buffs we got throughout the expansion. Could scaling alone be enough this time? Possibly. I haven't seen definitive data on that though.

    On the otherhand, I'm near top in my raids atm so I'm not saying our dps is bad (I did luck into a 489 dagger with my bag of loot though where as almost everyone else has a blue). Like I said in the other thread though, I do think our dps is low for what we bring (see feral druid dps and all the stuff they bring such as 0 dps loss healing) and therefore am not entirely happy with the state of the class. DS was actually kind of well done in that it allowed rogues to have utility in quite a few of the fights (in this case using utility to mean ability to do something non trivial for the raid outside of dps or able to dps in a specific way that is far more useful than most). I'm only 5 fights in but I'm not seeing anything so far... unless you want to count spirit kings where I can interrupt at a dps loss (which I luckily don't have to do much since we have dk's, warriors, rets that have 0 dps loss interrupts).

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    I see what you are saying (though thats not really related to my reply to him) but I also don't think it is wise to just entirely rely on the assumption that it will work itself out in later tiers automatically. Take Cata for example, sure we scaled well, but you also have to consider the massive buffs we got throughout the expansion. Could scaling alone be enough this time? Possibly. I haven't seen definitive data on that though.

    On the otherhand, I'm near top in my raids atm so I'm not saying our dps is bad (I did luck into a 489 dagger with my bag of loot though where as almost everyone else has a blue). Like I said in the other thread though, I do think our dps is low for what we bring (see feral druid dps and all the stuff they bring such as 0 dps loss healing) and therefore am not entirely happy with the state of the class. DS was actually kind of well done in that it allowed rogues to have utility in quite a few of the fights (in this case using utility to mean ability to do something non trivial for the raid outside of dps or able to dps in a specific way that is far more useful than most). I'm only 5 fights in but I'm not seeing anything so far... unless you want to count spirit kings where I can interrupt at a dps loss (which I luckily don't have to do much since we have dk's, warriors, rets that have 0 dps loss interrupts).
    You're absolutely right. I'm not trying to say there aren't problems with Rogues. A lot of the problems have been there for a long time and a fix is long due. I'm not even trying to take a side in this argument, I just wanted to point out that Rogues are naturally low at the beginning of the expansion, so I don't think that it's grounds to claim Rogue DPS is broken. And it seems from what you say (and Simcraft) that Rogue isn't doing all that bad anyway.

    Though I would argue that T11 was the ideal tier for Rogues recently, with Valiona and all the interrupts. I thought DS was a horrible raid all around (it pretty much made me quit raiding), but I guess Spine was a flattering fight for Rogues at least.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Synexlol View Post
    You're absolutely right. I'm not trying to say there aren't problems with Rogues. A lot of the problems have been there for a long time and a fix is long due. I'm not even trying to take a side in this argument, I just wanted to point out that Rogues are naturally low at the beginning of the expansion, so I don't think that it's grounds to claim Rogue DPS is broken. And it seems from what you say (and Simcraft) that Rogue isn't doing all that bad anyway.

    Though I would argue that T11 was the ideal tier for Rogues recently, with Valiona and all the interrupts. I thought DS was a horrible raid all around (it pretty much made me quit raiding), but I guess Spine was a flattering fight for Rogues at least.
    But see, rogues have been low at the beginning of expansions, not just because we needed gear (with which we scale well), but because of mechanics. So, I would disagree that we are 'naturally low' and argue that a large part is simply us being under-tuned. Cata launch, we were just massively undertuned. If you kept the state of the game as it was at launch and put everyone in full BiS DS gear, we would not have been anywhere near what we ended up as. The same thing was true at WotLK launch (aside from perhaps abusing a bug) which ended up with an incredibly massive buff to SnD.

    Rogues on V&T were indeed amazing. I felt pretty damn useless for interrupts though due to shaman having a ranged one (0 dps loss for enh) and needing less total people on interrupts if you used shaman instead. I do agree DS was a horrible raid all around (imo it was ToC bad).

  6. #46
    Stood in the Fire Syfy's Avatar
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    I rerolled rogue for MoP from hunter, pretty happy tbh, can solo anything old raid related I want pretty much, have yet to try pvp, hardly ever get beaten in dungeons in damage. So it's not that bad.

  7. #47
    Herald of the Titans T Man's Avatar
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    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/.../Combat_Rogue/

    Very happy enjoying my 15min of fame :>

  8. #48
    I am Murloc! Ryme's Avatar
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    With more gear, I'm happy with my throughput, but unhappy about how I get to do it.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  9. #49
    I'm pretty happy so far. Used to being top dps all the time and now having to compete with our very competent warlock and fury warrior. Getting World of Logs top 40's and better (nr9 on Feng). Of course dps could be higher compared to other classes but rogues are always a bit more gear dependant than other classes. I like it that subtlety is viable at the start of an expansion even though I prefer combat. Combat does feel way to slow without having your CDs up.

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