Thread: Shadow in PVP

  1. #1

    Shadow in PVP

    Forgive my newbishness, but in BG, RBG's or pvp in general, what should my spell/DoT rotation be. Here is my thoughts.

    I cast, in this order:

    1)MB
    2)VT
    3)SW:P
    4MF
    5)DP with 3 orbs

    then it gets situational, and where i need help.

    If there are multiple people, should i be SW:P them all then single target the healer or whatever? Or do I continue single target. I know PvP is entirely situational (which is why i believe it to be more difficult then raiding) and what you choose to do will vary, but is it worth the time it takes in PVP to dot everyone up?

    I would also like to know of other people's strategies and way's of melting face. And also, do you use your Psychic Horror when there is 1 orb, or do you wait to consume all 3.

    If this is better suited somewhere else, I apologize.
    Last edited by Avada Kedavra; 2012-10-21 at 05:21 PM. Reason: Spelling

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer Deadvolcanoes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,599
    In Bgs/Rbgs I basically multidot as many targets as I can, then just spam my instant procs on the nuke target.

    If you can get 3 or 4 targets fully dotted you practically have a guaranteed 10 seconds of MS and MB instants. Especially if you prioritize mastery after the haste cap.

    Also, I rarely use psychic horror unless I reallly need a stun or disarm. Mostly using DP, but if a warrior or rogue is bursting, ill use psychic horror just for the disarm, even if its only one orb.
    It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Copenhagen
    Posts
    3,077
    As you say, it is entirely situational, however it is always possible line up some guidelines:

    - First of all, if it is possible to shadow word: death (without the target having certain "immunities" such as dispersion, cheat death, purgatory, anti magic shell etc) then cast this spell; it is instant and it has high DPET, you will rarely get to use it (hence activating the cooldown rarely matters) and it will in most cases ensure a kill if casted twice.

    - Second in line is either mind blast or vampiric touch. If you know you can kill the target within a small time frame, use mind blast, otherwise use vampiric touch and follow up with shadow word: pain. If you mindlessly prioritize mind blast without any other pressure it's just a waste of a high DPET spell. Vampiric touch will always come ahead of shadow word: pain because of its dispel protection.

    - Shadow word: pain is the spell you'll be casting after VT. It's a good spell to multidot with if you are kiting/having melees on you. But be aware that it doesn't grant any dispel protection, and its initial hit is very weak in comparison to cata version of devouring plague. If you have the mana for it and honestly no other spell (not even utility spells) to cast, then it's a decent spell to cast on pets etc to fill up gcds.

    - You will rarely be casting mind flay to be honest unless you are playing against a very limited amount of players (1 or 2). If you have freetime to cast it is often better to reapply dots. And if you are having a lot of dots up on several targets you will be getting FDCL/DI procs instead.

    - DP with 3 orbs is a very powerful spell and shouldn't be casted straight away just because you have 3 orbs. If you can assure a kill with it, then of course go ahead and use it (assuming you aren't fighting like 6v2 in random BGs). Try and use it whenever you know that the current target is bursted a lot and that he/she doesn't have any major CDs ready. Also since it's a dot, try and mix in some CC after casting it, if your kill target is recieving heals.

    - Dark halo is a very situational spell. Make sure you don't break CC when using it, and make sure it doesn't cause you to run out of mana in the short run. It's amazing to use when the target is LoS or in stealth/invi, so not using it on CD will often be very beneficial, seeing as you may end up in a situation shortly afterwards where it could fill up a useless GCD. And since it gives more damage the further your target is away, you should often only use it when you are in a good position beforehand. Possibly in 5v5 and BGs you can use it as an aoe tool for overall pressure rather than a single target 'big hit'.
    Keep in mind whenever you are in a position to use this spell, because situations where it's useful to use rarely shows up.


    In mass fights with healers present in Random BGs/RBGs I suggest you to try and multidot a lot. Since healers have an 8 second cd on dispel and powerful healing you will often discover that a target can go from a potential kill target to someone not in danger of dying, so therefore it's great to have a lot of targets with dots up to work with. You will also get a lot of random instant procs that can really make you mobile (without letting you suffer damage wise) and at the same time give you some unpredicted burst.
    Last edited by Funkthepunk; 2012-10-21 at 06:11 PM.

  4. #4
    Battlegrounds:

    Multidot with vt and pain. Use procs. Focus on a target when they dip low.

    Arena and Small BG engagements:

    Do not focus on multidotting. You and your teammate focus on the target most out of position. When that target gets healed back up to a reasonable amount/gets los'ed, swap to the next viable target. The opposing healer will have to deal with your lingering dots on the first target even though your team has moved onto a new one.

  5. #5
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    3,765
    In RBGs and Arenas keeping up VT's is super important because I find I go oom very quickly. This is because I try to Halo on cooldown to hit the kill target at max range, and I keep Mass Dispel pretty much on cooldown as well - both of which are incredibly expensive - but with 3+ vt's rolling you can manage the cost for awhile - and being able to bring that kind of aoe healing/damage and dispels to bear: especcially in an RBG, is great for your team.

    Note: I'm not using these as soon as the button refreshes, but I frequently find I need them as often as possible - halo coordinated properly is our best burst (because it takes a gcd to reach its target, so you can halo/mb/dp and have them all land at the same time) - and pretty much someone on your team is always going to be CC'd, so being able to get them out of those as often as possible is fantastic.
    Youtube ~ Yvaelle ~ Twitter

  6. #6
    So i think i found where my error was. I'm alliance, and alliance does not kill the healers first, so I make it a point to focus them. I DoT using VT and Swp, but my error was not multi doting VT. If i am not mistaken, you used to only be able to VT one person, but now the tooltip no longer has the restriction. So now that i know VT can be cast on multiple people, it will definitely help maximizing damage. So does the mana regen stack depending on how many VT you have active on targets? and how does MB interact if VT is stacked? and is it better to cast MB as soon as VT is up? or is there a better time to cast MB during the VT DoT up time (ie at the end of the VT duration)
    Last edited by Avada Kedavra; 2012-10-23 at 03:52 PM. Reason: spelling

  7. #7
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    3,765
    Devouring Plague was target capped at 1 target per time in the past, none of our dots are target capped anymore (but its incredibly rare to get multiple DP's up at the same time, nigh impossible on a non-gimmick fight).

    Mana regen stacks from multiple VTs.

    Not sure what you mean by MB interacting with VT - they have no formal association? Cast them both as often as possible.
    Youtube ~ Yvaelle ~ Twitter

  8. #8
    Really seems like you should just read up about your class in general. You're asking a lot of questions that have minor to no consequences or don't make any sense at all. Any of the dps guides list damage value priority.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by spacemixup View Post
    Really seems like you should just read up about your class in general. You're asking a lot of questions that have minor to no consequences or don't make any sense at all. Any of the dps guides list damage value priority.
    My class is not the issue. I mentioned above that I am a healer mainly. Until Blizz fixes Disc, i switched to shadow. So yes i might need to read a little more on the spec, but class...no. And if people are willing to answer my dumb questions, i appreciate it. Also read the first line in my original post. I claim to be no expert. (although someday...someday i will be UBER) and that is all.

  10. #10
    Bloodsail Admiral dannypoos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    UK/Wales
    Posts
    1,016
    I got the pvp weapon today but im wondering what freedom of the horde trinket to use
    Should I get the mastery or crit one? Any advice would be greatfull

  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Probably Sleeping
    Posts
    1,018
    Quote Originally Posted by dannypoos View Post
    I got the pvp weapon today but im wondering what freedom of the horde trinket to use
    Should I get the mastery or crit one? Any advice would be greatfull
    For Arena I would say Crit hands down, BGs it's more of a toss up.

  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral dannypoos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    UK/Wales
    Posts
    1,016
    I mainly do bg's and I was leaning towards the mastery 1 but havent made my mind up

  13. #13
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Probably Sleeping
    Posts
    1,018
    Quote Originally Posted by dannypoos View Post
    I mainly do bg's and I was leaning towards the mastery 1 but havent made my mind up
    Well how much time do you get to free cast many DoTs vs. needing to blow someone up right now? There can be somewhat of an argument both ways and I would just suggest Crit even if the only Arenas you're doing is 2v2 for CP cap.

  14. #14
    Bloodsail Admiral dannypoos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    UK/Wales
    Posts
    1,016
    Well its all situational some times im free to dot up, then other I have warriors locking me down.
    And I rarely do arena.
    but in bg's If im free to dot up quit often play with frost mage and lock and the mage usually if he can will snare root for me.
    but I get most of my damage overal done from dots as I put them up on every 1 and the idea of more dots procs pressure helps alot
    so meny times the spread dot damage from me and the lock quickly starts to make healer struggle then ofc the ammount of proccs start flowing in
    I personaly really like the dots damage so I like mastery after haste as the extra ticks provide that exta pressure acroos the board and hopefully more Di and FDCL procs
    But like I said I only do random bg's but i'm loving shadow soo much I can some times double the damage of the next player in the BG
    But I it helps i play with good players 5 of us join together me a lock,frostmage,rank 8 3v3 hunter and his bro a blood dk and lately been on about 90% win rate xD

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •