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  1. #821
    I honestly thought it would sell more...go fig

  2. #822
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldschoolwow View Post
    The only thing wow haters or fans can know for certain is blizzard inflate their numbers. What they really are, who knows? We only know they inflate them
    How do they inflate them?

    And aren't other games doing that: "Over TWO MILLION copies sold!"
    Or do you remember when Rift announced their number of accounts created?
    Turned out they counted my account because I registered on their site to play the Beta for 2 days.

    With the way WoW works it's actually harder to inflate their numbers, because those 10 million accounts are active and paying. (Even if some people pay less)

    Quote Originally Posted by EvcRo View Post
    So basically they say that 2.7 mil people play WoW now + the rest up to 10 mil which is made by non paying asians, where they count 1 sub if 1 dude logged in the game at an internet cafe once.

    I'm sorry for the fanboys, but by the next expansion WoW will be no2. That's ok, game is to old and it already delivered wonders.

    Especially since 1.2 mil subs forced by the anual pass will not renew in prop of 90%+. Check the tears in May 2013 By than WoW will be no2 and if an unnamed gaming company will add some stuff to their latest game WoW will no2 by a large margin.
    Are you sure?
    That really reminds me of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_2_cJxYYhM

    Because every time people say: "The next game will beat them in subs!", "The next patch they won't be the biggest!" or "The next expansion they will go down!"

  3. #823
    No game is going to beat WOW in subs unless they sell in the asian market. Game companies dont admit this and Gamers dont even realize this.

  4. #824
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldschoolwow View Post
    The only thing wow haters or fans can know for certain is blizzard inflate their numbers. What they really are, who knows? We only know they inflate them
    What kind of crap is this? Seriously?

    What you proposed is forbidden by law... anything else?
    Beauty > Personality

  5. #825
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Valen~ View Post
    What kind of crap is this? Seriously?

    What you proposed is forbidden by law... anything else?
    i have a question. Do ppl with multiple accounts get counted as multiple subs? If so that is inflating numbers since most ppl with multiple accounts link them. Secondly since there are multiple types of subs blizz is never specific when counting them. You have your monthly subscribers who pay their 15 a month, Do they add ppl on trial accounts? i dont think they do but if they did thats inflating the numbers. Do you add players who get that 1 free week email after they have been unsubbed for a while? Cuz if they do thats inflating the numbers. Specially when you send that email out the same month the quarter ends to boost subs a bit. Then you have the chinese players who pay by the hour or minute or w.e who get counted as a sub even if they only play once a month. So a guy only has to play 1 min to be counted as a subscription. Yea thats inflating. But hey if you say that this is how you count your subs then your not breaking the law. But we can still see that its not really 10 mil subs its more like (X$15 a month players * number of accounts + Y pay once and get counted as a month players * number of accounts + Z free week players * number of accounts + Q Trial Players)

  6. #826
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    i have a question. Do ppl with multiple accounts get counted as multiple subs? If so that is inflating numbers since most ppl with multiple accounts link them. Secondly since there are multiple types of subs blizz is never specific when counting them. You have your monthly subscribers who pay their 15 a month, Do they add ppl on trial accounts? i dont think they do but if they did thats inflating the numbers. Do you add players who get that 1 free week email after they have been unsubbed for a while? Cuz if they do thats inflating the numbers. Specially when you send that email out the same month the quarter ends to boost subs a bit. Then you have the chinese players who pay by the hour or minute or w.e who get counted as a sub even if they only play once a month. So a guy only has to play 1 min to be counted as a subscription. Yea thats inflating. But hey if you say that this is how you count your subs then your not breaking the law. But we can still see that its not really 10 mil subs its more like (X$15 a month players * number of accounts + Y pay once and get counted as a month players * number of accounts + Z free week players * number of accounts + Q Trial Players)
    Quoted for truth.

    That's how they inflate. They don't openly lie just misrepresent their "sub numbers"

  7. #827
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    i have a question. Do ppl with multiple accounts get counted as multiple subs? If so that is inflating numbers since most ppl with multiple accounts link them. Secondly since there are multiple types of subs blizz is never specific when counting them. You have your monthly subscribers who pay their 15 a month, Do they add ppl on trial accounts? i dont think they do but if they did thats inflating the numbers. Do you add players who get that 1 free week email after they have been unsubbed for a while? Cuz if they do thats inflating the numbers. Specially when you send that email out the same month the quarter ends to boost subs a bit. Then you have the chinese players who pay by the hour or minute or w.e who get counted as a sub even if they only play once a month. So a guy only has to play 1 min to be counted as a subscription. Yea thats inflating. But hey if you say that this is how you count your subs then your not breaking the law. But we can still see that its not really 10 mil subs its more like (X$15 a month players * number of accounts + Y pay once and get counted as a month players * number of accounts + Z free week players * number of accounts + Q Trial Players)
    I will just answer to the last part of this nonsense.

    1) Trials are not included.
    2) Free weeks are not included.
    3) Chinese people pay a bigger part of their income than we do and even though some KKK-people disagree, they are still real people so they count as real subs.
    4) Investors, the entire reason they HAVE quarterly reports, care about their revenue.

  8. #828
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    I will just answer to the last part of this nonsense.

    1) Trials are not included.
    2) Free weeks are not included.
    3) Chinese people pay a bigger part of their income than we do and even though some KKK-people disagree, they are still real people so they count as real subs.
    4) Investors, the entire reason they HAVE quarterly reports, care about their revenue.
    World of Warcraftsubscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards.

    So they dont say anything about ppl with multiple accounts or more than one active pre paid card. Or game room players with multiple accounts. Its still inflating.

    and my point about the chinese isnt how much they are paying its how its counted. They pay per hour or w.e but they only have to access it once to becounted as a full sub. A sub in my book is a person who is paying for a full month, not a person who only wants to play for a few hours each month because thats all they can afford yet blizz makes it look like they have access the entire month when they dont.
    Last edited by Zeek Daniels; 2012-10-06 at 04:38 PM.

  9. #829
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    World of Warcraftsubscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards.

    Glad you found it, I couldn't find it so fast.

    So they dont say anything about ppl with multiple accounts or more than one active pre paid card. Or game room players with multiple accounts. Its still inflating.
    Does it matter? If I have 5 games, I count as 5 players.
    And what if I have two accounts, but my brother plays on one? Does it count as 1 or 2 to you?
    All that nonsense can't be counted, so they just look at the amount of paying people.
    It's what every game does, except that other games inflate it twice as bad by counting people who bought the game but aren't playing.


    and my point about the chinese isnt how much they are paying its how its counted. They pay per hour or w.e but they only have to access it once to becounted as a full sub. A sub in my book is a person who is paying for a full month, not a person who only wants to play for a few hours each month because thats all they can afford yet blizz makes it look like they have access the entire month when they dont.
    So? Are we talking about playing the game or paying the game to count as a sub?
    That's why they release all the information.
    If people care about the playing people, they have the 10 million number.
    If people care about the revenue, they have all the financial information available.

    And I think your logic is flawed.
    Why won't you count a Chinese guy that plays 4 hours a week as a sub, but an American guy that plays 2 hours a week does count?

  10. #830
    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    Blizzard games used to have way higher standarts than most other games. Not so much for their latest games trough, even Diablo 3 was a mediocore game :P
    yea they used to have, but after all those ppl left and after blizzard north destroyed pretty much everything went to shit

  11. #831
    Warchief Saluin's Avatar
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    This thread is starting to give me a headache. We have Kangodo here providing some information and standing up for the game then we get some clear "haters" who are trying to say that Blizzard is manipulating sub numbers etc.. it's is pointless.

  12. #832
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does it matter? If I have 5 games, I count as 5 players.
    The whole controversy is that Blizzard has lumped more than one type of player into the same category. They truly are apples and oranges and Blizzard is counting them as though they are the same thing where they are not.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-06 at 12:19 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MMOTotal View Post
    This thread is starting to give me a headache. We have Kangodo here providing some information and standing up for the game then we get some clear "haters" who are trying to say that Blizzard is manipulating sub numbers etc.. it's is pointless.
    Except those haters have a valid point. Don't hate the messenger just because you hate the message.

  13. #833
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zdrasti View Post
    The whole controversy is that Blizzard has lumped more than one type of player into the same category. They truly are apples and oranges and Blizzard is counting them as though they are the same thing where they are not.
    Does that mean if I buy a game when it's on sale the dev can't consider it a sale because of the price that was payed? If I pay less for a game in the EU for example is it still a sale?

  14. #834
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Does that mean if I buy a game when it's on sale the dev can't consider it a sale because of the price that was payed? If I pay less for a game in the EU for example is it still a sale?
    Of course it is, because price has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. They're still selling a product. Price differences between markets will always exist, but you're still selling the same product.

    My point however, is that subscriptions in US/EU are vastly different from the "subscription" model in Asia. Ignore price, the product being sold here is nowhere near the same thing.

  15. #835
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    And I think your logic is flawed.
    Why won't you count a Chinese guy that plays 4 hours a week as a sub, but an American guy that plays 2 hours a week does count?
    i think its more the fact that the guy that played for an hour on 1st January, the day his sub ran out, still counts as an "active sub" for the 1st quarter. and someone in the US that paid $45 for the quarter counts the same as a guy in china that paid 10c to play for an hour. i find it fascinating that they provide "data" for their investors that if i were a director in the company i would dismiss as being utterly useless for my purposes.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

    The volume of new game features and content in MoP is a direct consequence of people cancelling subscriptions during Cataclysm. You're welcome.

  16. #836
    This thread surely gives some good laughs, so many haters without any clue.
    Btw if it's so easy to gain Chinese subscribers why dont other games go there and gain the same crazy amount of subs that WoW has?
    The truth is that no other MMO has the slightest chance to gain such popularity in Asia.

  17. #837
    Quote Originally Posted by MMOTotal View Post
    This thread is starting to give me a headache. We have Kangodo here providing some information and standing up for the game then we get some clear "haters" who are trying to say that Blizzard is manipulating sub numbers etc.. it's is pointless.
    its not pointless, i actually find it very interesting. but then i have a professional background in statistical analysis, so for me the information they arent giving is as interesting to me as the information they are.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

    The volume of new game features and content in MoP is a direct consequence of people cancelling subscriptions during Cataclysm. You're welcome.

  18. #838
    Quote Originally Posted by Stannis View Post
    This thread surely gives some good laughs, so many haters without any clue.
    Btw if it's so easy to gain Chinese subscribers why dont other games go there and gain the same crazy amount of subs that WoW has?
    The truth is that no other MMO has the slightest chance to gain such popularity in Asia.
    WoW is amazingly popular in Asia and that's a great accomplishment. However, it is not the point. The point is that Chinese "subs" are vastly different from other "subs" to the point that they really shouldn't be called subs at all.

    Let me give you an analogy. Carnivals usually have two means by which you can go on the rides. You can buy tickets and each ride costs a certain number of tickets. Alternately you can buy a wrist band, hand stamp, etc that lets you ride all day. The latter is like the WoW subscription model for US/EU whereas the former is like the Chinese model. Blizzard however lumps them together and what is more, they call them both subscriptions. This would be like the carnival lumping wrist bands and ticket sales together and calling them all wrist band sales.

    There's two things to complain about here. First you shouldn't lump apples and oranges together. Second, if you choose to lump them together, you shouldn't call the combined objects apples.

  19. #839
    Quote Originally Posted by Zdrasti View Post
    Except those haters have a valid point. Don't hate the messenger just because you hate the message.
    don't bother... MMOTotal hates everyone has something negative to say about wow... even if the guy had valid points

  20. #840
    7.3 million Twinks?
    WHO KNEW?

    And as these numbers get more and more fantastical, the question on everyone's mind.....Where are they all hiding???
    Did you think we had forgotten? Did you think we had forgiven?

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