Thread: 2H vs DW frost

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  1. #1

    2H vs DW frost

    Ok, since there are many of you at 90 now, and I am just getting to 88 I was wondering what is better overall for questing/BG's/Dungeons. All the stuff I found on google or even this site was for Cata, or for raiding which I do not plan on doing. Please explain reasons behind why one might be better, don't just say DW or 2H, with nothing to back it up.

  2. #2
    in pvp:

    on plate and mail classes: DW

    On the rest: 2h

    Ye i know, it's a really poor design.

  3. #3
    Does that mean I have to reforge from haste to mastery as well depending on the class I am fighting lol?

  4. #4

  5. #5
    Yeah that's def bad design.... I think I will just stay 2H for now.

  6. #6
    Mechagnome kleinlax21's Avatar
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    Questing: 2H, much more bursty & gives bigger hits.

    PvP: Just as Wrien stated.

    Dungeons/Raids: 2H.

    2H is much better in PvP because 2H Oblit >> DW Oblit and 2H Frost Strike < DW Frost Strike.

    2H just ends up doing better than DW, especially in PvE. But, against high armor classes, DW is able to pull away because of the shift to spell damage from physical damage that DW makes viable.
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  7. #7
    For leveling/questing, it totally doesn't matter which one you pick. Burst doesn't matter in PvE; for every time you got 2 crit oblits in a row and kill a mob instantly you'll get 4 non-crits and have it take forever. Pick based upon your weapons.

    DW is much better for dungeons, scenarios, and challenge modes due to its superior AE.

    DW is ~1.5% below 2H on single target DPS, but lots of raid encounters have adds/cleave/AE components, so in reality it's a toss-up between the two. Lots of people will see that 1.5% and go 2H, and there's less competition for 2H strength weapons as well. SMF beats titan's grip, so you really only compete with ret paladins.
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2012-10-04 at 05:53 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    For leveling/questing, it totally doesn't matter which one you pick. Burst doesn't matter in PvE; for every time you got 2 crit oblits in a row and kill a mob instantly you'll get 4 non-crits and have it take forever. Pick based upon your weapons.

    DW is much better for dungeons, scenarios, and challenge modes due to its superior AE.

    DW is ~1.5% below 2H on single target DPS, but lots of raid encounters have adds/cleave/AE components, so in reality it's a toss-up between the two. Lots of people will see that 1.5% and go 2H, and there's less competition for 2H strength weapons as well. SMF beats titan's grip, so you really only compete with ret paladins.

    This isn't always true though. For someone like me (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...stara/advanced) going DW for cleave fights isn't viable.

    What makes DW viable is the move over to the MasterFrost priority system (Reforging Mastery > Haste > Crit, and changing your priority system to want Howling Blasts > Oblit spam) The thing that makes Frost DKs so good is we can switch to cleaving at the drop of a hat. For example, if there is more than 1 target then it is more viable for 2H Frost to start spamming HB even with low mastery. However if one fight is constantly >1 target (Stone Guard for example) then your stat ratings change for 2H to be (Haste > Mastery >> Crit) with each additional target, mastery becomes more valuable and switching to DW isn't always an option, for me losing the weapon damage from my 476 by going to two 463s is far and above more than a 1.5% DPS loss (somewhere in the realm of 7%)

  9. #9
    Sure, you have a much better 2H weapon so you should use it on single targets.

    You can keep two 463 1-handers in your bags, though. Put cinderglacier on the mainhand (this is awesome for AE, if you never tried it), fallen crusader on the offhand, and switch for trash and AE/cleave-intensive encounters.

    Just remember that ToT and MotFW are disabled for 30 seconds after switching weapons, so you shouldn't do it in the middle of a fight.

  10. #10
    OK, thanks guys def just gonna stay 2H since I plan on doing BG's and stuff.

  11. #11
    Only reason DW isnt really being played in raids atm is because of the hassle to get your hands on 2x STR one handers with same or higher ilvl than your 2h.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by schleimhaut View Post
    Only reason DW isnt really being played in raids atm is because of the hassle to get your hands on 2x STR one handers with same or higher ilvl than your 2h.
    This isn't true at all. The reason it isn't being played is because you can't get to adequate mastery and haste levels for (1. Howling Blast x2 to hit harder than Obliterate) and (2. Enough haste levels to not have a substantial amount of empty globals.)

    I have two 1Hs and a 2H and you know why I don't play DW? Because it's damage is inferior.

  13. #13
    DW's single-target damage is slightly lower than 2H, true. It's 1.2% lower at T14N gear levels. DW is much better at cleave/AE though.

    The rest of your post is a bit misguided. HB*2 does hit harder than obliterate+rime as DW without the 2H obliterate damage bonus; again at the T14N gear level, HB*2 hits 7.6% harder. That is why masterfrost exists.

    Empty GCDs don't matter, only total performance matters, and DW masterfrost has a lot less free GCDs (3.65%) than 2H (14.77%) anyway. DW masterfrost is actually GCD locked at T14N. So if wait time annoys you, you should enjoy DW more.
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2012-10-05 at 05:12 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    DW's single-target damage is slightly lower than 2H, true. It's 1.2% lower at T14N gear levels. DW is much better at cleave/AE though.

    The rest of your post is a bit misguided. HB*2 does hit harder than obliterate+rime as DW without the 2H obliterate damage bonus; again at the T14N gear level, HB*2 hits 7.6% harder. That is why masterfrost exists.

    Empty GCDs don't matter, only total performance matters, and DW masterfrost has a lot less free GCDs (3.65%) than 2H (14.77%) anyway. DW masterfrost is actually GCD locked at T14N. So if wait time annoys you, you should enjoy DW more.
    You can't just discard the extra damage that should be counted in. It doesn't hit harder. And I don't know where you got the idea that empty globals don't matter. Each global you spend doing nothing (Ex. You can't use any damaging or power generating abilities) is a DPS loss.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan017 View Post
    Each global you spend doing nothing (Ex. You can't use any damaging or power generating abilities) is a DPS loss.
    This is completely wrong. Feral druids have 40% wait time. They sit around doing nothing for 4 seconds out of every 10. Does that mean that feral is automatically a weak spec? Of course not. Your spec's performance was balanced against its resource generation and consumption.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    This is completely wrong. Feral druids have 40% wait time. They sit around doing nothing for 4 seconds out of every 10. Does that mean that feral is automatically a weak spec? Of course not. Your spec's performance was balanced against its resource generation and consumption.
    If you're not doing damage then it is a DPS loss.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan017 View Post
    If you're not doing damage then it is a DPS loss.
    LOL.

    Anyway, good luck.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    DW's single-target damage is slightly lower than 2H, true. It's 1.2% lower at T14N gear levels.
    i assure you the difference between 2H and DW is alot higher stop blindly trusting simcraft for current available content and gear levels 2H > DW

  19. #19
    Well since you assure me, obviously I will change my mind and completely agree. Thanks for clearing that up.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Well since you assure me, obviously I will change my mind and completely agree. Thanks for clearing that up.
    Math is super hard apparently.

    If I get off X number of spells during an encounter. And another DK in the same gear gets off Y number of spells where Y=X-25 due to empty globals from RNG then I do more damage.

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