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  1. #1
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    Staff vs. MH/OH and Mistweaver Emminence

    Does anyone know if there is a noticeable difference between Emminence healing with a Staff or a healer MH/OH combination? The formula on wowdb.com indicates that we scale off MH damage, and MHs have about 25% lower DPS.

    http://www.wowdb.com/spells/100780-jab
    http://www.wowdb.com/spells/100784-blackout-kick
    http://www.wowdb.com/spells/100787-tiger-palm
    http://www.wowdb.com/spells/101546-spinning-crane-kick

  2. #2
    I have been wondering the same thing myself. Haven't managed to get a good mh/oh combo yet to try.
    [Main Healer]
    5.x: Resto Shaman, MW/WW Monk
    4.x: Priest
    3.x: Resto Shaman, Holy Priest
    0.x - 2.4.3: Holy Paladin

  3. #3
    Way of the Monk increases mistweaver autoattack DPS by 70% with a one-hander. This is not captured in the various parsing sites.

    I expect they do something similar to the damage calculations for various abilities based upon WDPS like jab, BoK, etc, but haven't tested it.

  4. #4
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    Hmm, I'll need to find a good 463 MH/OH and test it out. I don't want to take the MH from MSV before someone else if it will be suboptimal for Monks and there's no staff until ToES.

  5. #5
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=81288

    Is the staff I'm currently using. For WW 2h/duel is very close in the damage out-put I don't see how MH/OH will be competitive for us in terms of emminence due to being unable to hit with a OH.
    Last edited by Lyriok; 2012-10-04 at 09:16 PM.

  6. #6
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    I have the same staff.

    MW isn't WW, though. For starters, someone else already mentioned that we get an extra 30% bonus to auto-attack damage with a 1Her as MW. So if the Jab/BoK/TP formulas are also adjusted for MW with a 1Her, then it could be very close as well.

  7. #7
    Only using it in comparison since there's nothing else to really base it on since I was unaware of the extra 30% AA damage.

    I'll try find the 30% modifier and I'll get back to you

    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=108977/way-of-the-monk

    I would assume is the abilty we're referring too, if this is the case then it will be preference just like WW but I'm not too sure if off-hands are considered one handed weapons.
    Last edited by Lyriok; 2012-10-04 at 09:40 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyriok View Post
    I'll try find the 30% modifier and I'll get back to you
    Isn't it on the same passive that gives us 40% haste with two handers? Yeah, it's on Way of the Monk.

    Edit: And it reads "auto attack damage is increased by 40%."
    [Main Healer]
    5.x: Resto Shaman, MW/WW Monk
    4.x: Priest
    3.x: Resto Shaman, Holy Priest
    0.x - 2.4.3: Holy Paladin

  9. #9
    That it is, I edited it into the post.

    Requires One-Handed Axes, One-Handed Maces, One-Handed Swords, Fist Weapons.

    Can't find anything saying it works with MH/OH

  10. #10
    Yes, the various parsing sites have it as 40%, same as WW and BrM. But if you're MW spec, your autoattack damage is increased by 70% with a one-handed weapon equipped, since you can't dual-wield.

    Also all the people saying DW and 2H are equal for WW are incorrect; DW is better, and that gap grows with gear.

    Back in beta DW was better for BrM also due to stacking Brewing: Elusive Brew faster, but I know they made some changes near the end of beta that may have changed that... I'm not 100% up on my brewmaster theorycraft.

  11. #11
    Doesn't matter since Eminence only heals from special attacks. Makes no difference whether your auto-attack DPS is 100 or 5000000. For this reason, Eminence presumably benefits more from a 2h weapon.

  12. #12
    While eminence is only special attacks Serpents zeal allows 50% of our AA damage to heal, which makes me curious on how the two options actually go.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Yes, the various parsing sites have it as 40%, same as WW and BrM. But if you're MW spec, your autoattack damage is increased by 70% with a one-handed weapon equipped, since you can't dual-wield.

    Also all the people saying DW and 2H are equal for WW are incorrect; DW is better, and that gap grows with gear.

    Back in beta DW was better for BrM also due to stacking Brewing: Elusive Brew faster, but I know they made some changes near the end of beta that may have changed that... I'm not 100% up on my brewmaster theorycraft.

    Have actually been testing the DW/1H set up for BM and so far finding that DW stacks EB faster. Just started healing and only have a staff but will be testing it out when I can pick up a good weapon/off-hand combo.

  14. #14
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Lyrioc. Mistweavers cannot dual wield, you know that right?

    When 1H/OH you gain 70% increased autoattack damage, which should even out with wielding a staff and getting 40% increased autoattack speed.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    Lyrioc. Mistweavers cannot dual wield, you know that right?
    main hand healing weapon and caster ofhand just like priests can equip.
    Quote Originally Posted by Archaeon View Post
    In tbc everyone wished they were playing vanilla. In cataclysm everyone will wish they were playing wotlk.
    ^------True story!!

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyriok View Post
    While eminence is only special attacks Serpents zeal allows 50% of our AA damage to heal, which makes me curious on how the two options actually go.
    Well don't mh/oh usually provide more stats the just a staff? Thinking that way we'll have more spellpower therefore more attackpower with a mh/oh, correct? Would that + the increased aa dmg work out better?
    Blood
    Resto

  17. #17
    BM and WW have 40% increased autoattack damage, while MW have 70% increased autoattack damage from Way of the Monk. Below are two ilvl450 from the MoP ring of blod quest.

    2H, 3842 - 5764 Damage, Speed 3.30, 1455.3 dps (Liuyang's Lovely Longstaff) will gain 40% melee attack speed
    1H, 1208 - 2246 Damage, Speed 1.60, 1079 dps (ol'Grum's Frozen Mace) will gain 70% autoattack damage

    making them:
    2H 3842 - 5764 Damage, Speed 1.98, 2425.8 dps (Liuyang's Lovely Longstaff)
    1H 2053 - 3818 Damage, Speed 1.60, 1834.7 dps (ol'Grum's Frozen Mace)

    Most heal will be gained from special attacks, making 2h best since even spinning crane kick aoe counts as special attacks. I doubt any offhand enchant and/or the 0.38 melee attack speed and/or the slight increase in stats will make up for the difference.

    I know I will go for 2h for PvP atleast. Too bad I already chose 1h from that quest before writing this post, oh well "Cranedancer's Staff" it is then.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4496789824#2 (Ghostcrawler)
    Mistweavers who want to melee a lot will do more dps with a staff (though caster staves do less damage than melee staves), but we can make sure the healing is the same whether using a staff or a healer mace / dagger / sword.

    It's also not the end of the world if healer monks slightly prefer staves, since not all healers want staves.
    Last edited by hellomynameis; 2012-10-05 at 05:22 PM.

  18. #18
    1) Haste doesn't work that way. A 3.3s weapon with 40% haste will attack at 2.36s, not 1.98s.

    The 2H still wins on autoattacks, but not by a lot, and the extra stats on the offhand should make up for it (remember 1 spellpower converts to 2 attackpower). The correct numbers are 2035dps versus 1834dps.

    2) Monk special attacks don't work that way. Read this link for more info.

    http://www.disargeria.net/2012/08/14...es-weapon-dps/
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2012-10-05 at 05:29 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Also all the people saying DW and 2H are equal for WW are incorrect; DW is better, and that gap grows with gear.
    You keep saying this yet never show it. Until someone with identical gear can show parses, it's just a theory put forth by a flawed sim program that the authors admit is flawed. Considering that you can buy 430-ish green gear this would be very easy to test. Of course, if your results didn't match your point, you'd just claim it was due to a small sample size and throw it out...

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Siddown View Post
    flawed sim program that the authors admit is flawed.
    Are you a sock-puppet of the other guy who keeps mindlessly repeating that nonsense? Just curious.

    Parses are not meaningful except in aggregate, because the difference is fairly small and the RNG can vary widely in either direction. If you have 1000 parses for each, then we can talk about parses. Maybe once raidbots starts showing MoP raids-- but even then, I don't know how they'll differentiate between 2H and DW WW.
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2012-10-05 at 06:18 PM.

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