Do YOU like the new rep system?

[Cullum]

i dislike this gating stuff. if anyone has the skill/time or gold one should be able to get what they want instead of this stupid rep grind stuff. they wanted to get rid of the rep grind for head enchants but made it significantly worse by forcing me to grind dailies day in and day out for enchant's and other patterns. i hate it with a vengance.

[Didactic]

It's not about the raids. I presume everyone (or the majority at any rate) enjoys progressing their character. The primary way (in pve) of doing that after justice points (which are also fucking useless now another means to gate progression I assume?) is through valor and lfr. Lfr being delayed gates this progression enough IMHO. Making you get rep and then valor points (which you gain at such a low fucking rate I might add) is excessive. Look even they have acknowledge they took this to an extent. They've already decided to lower the LFR requirement to 460.

I agree in that the current system does not accomplish the stated goals. However, I dispute your claim that gating is unecessary.

[Glorious Leader]

I agree in that the current system does not accomplish the stated goals. However, I dispute your claim that gating is unecessary.

Then allow me to restate my position. The excess of gating in this expansion is regressive, capricious and ultimately unrewarding. Can we agree it's a bit to much?

[melak]

Then allow me to restate my position. The excess of gating in this expansion is regressive, capricious and ultimately unrewarding. Can we agree it's a bit to much?

nope...

/10chars

[Dabrix32]

No and I refuse to do any quests becuase I hate questing. I never did Argent Tourney or any dailies during Wrath and I never did Molten Front Dailies during Cata. I just cant stand questing. Id rather actually play the game and run Heroics with other people for my rep. Questing is for leveling then it stops.

[Didactic]

No and I refuse to do any quests becuase I hate questing. I never did Argent Tourney or any dailies during Wrath and I never did Molten Front Dailies during Cata. I just cant stand questing. Id rather actually play the game and run Heroics with other people for my rep. Questing is for leveling then it stops.

Orly? Well, allow me to flaunt my Silver Covenant Hippogryph.

[Dabrix32]

Orly? Well, allow me to flaunt my Silver Covenant Hippogryph.

So?...........

[Chaozu]

Tabards that work in Arenas, Battlegrounds, Challenge Modes, Dungeons, and Raids. BoA rep tokens purchasable using Honor and Justice points.

Wrath and Cata had some very good concepts as regards making rep gain easier for people that like a specific aspect of the game.

I don't understand how getting reputation for PVE gear would make any sense at all by farming PvP, also farming dungeons for rep would still need a shared reputation cap together with the daily quests.

Wrath and Cata had a terrible concept of acquiring reputation because you could just equip said tabard and farm dungeons to no end until you were exalted.

[melak]

No and I refuse to do any quests becuase I hate questing. I never did Argent Tourney or any dailies during Wrath and I never did Molten Front Dailies during Cata. I just cant stand questing. Id rather actually play the game and run Heroics with other people for my rep. Questing is for leveling then it stops.

so dont play the game then, simple as that. You refuse to quest, fine i dont really care

[Glorious Leader]

I don't understand how getting reputation for PVE gear would make any sense at all by farming PvP, also farming dungeons for rep would still need a shared reputation cap together with the daily quests.

Wrath and Cata had a terrible concept of acquiring reputation because you could just equip said tabard and farm dungeons to no end until you were exalted.

Why is that terrible exactly?

[Chaozu]

Why is that terrible exactly?

Because you plow through the content too quickly, you grind up all of the factions, get everything you need by farming hours and hours for a day or two, and then there is barely anything left to do in the game until the next big patch which is months away. It's much better to drag the process out over a longer period of time so it's not all consumed too quickly. You could say "well just don't farm the crap out of it if you want to savor it for later" but as you should well know that mindset doesn't work at all when you play in a guild and need to do all you can to stay on top. I'm not even in a competetive guild, I don't care what spot we are on compared to others, but I damn well want to make sure that I don't drag the rest of my team behind thus I will do everything I can to improve my character. Therefor I love this gating system because it's the same for everyone, I can easily log on a couple of hours a day, do all the rep stuff of the day and then go on and do whatever else I feel like. If the amount of rep you could gather per day wasn't limited I would feel forced to farm it to no end until I was exalted with every single one of the factions, and I know that the rest guild would do the exact same thing. In a week or two there would be absolutely nothing to do in the game again outside of raids, and it's Cataclym all over again.

[Glorious Leader]

Because you plow through the content too quickly, you grind up all of the factions, get everything you need by farming hours and hours for a day or two, and then there is barely anything left to do in the game until the next big patch which is months away..

That is BLIZZARDS problem not yours. I mean it's true you might do that or some people might and frankly even under those circumstances your really exaggerating but even then it's up to Blizzard to keep frresh content coming my way at a reasonable pace. Again we had 9 months without new content under the old cataclysm system. They lost players but they still somehow managed to keep 9 million. Not only that during wotlk they had a PEAK of subs. People didn't blast through content in no time and they weren't leaving in droves. People may have claimed they were bored on forums somewhere but the sub numbers don't reflect this. No the answer was and is to keep the system as it was in wotlk/cata and just not take 6-9 months to release patches. After 3-4 months people will get bored because even by that point the most casual of casuals will have seen it all and everybody and their alts will have seen at all. Even if you take the claim that people are bored, it wasn't because they burned through content to fast. It was because Blizzard didn't release content fast enough. They claim they will address this in this expansion. My suspicion is that they can't or won't and that's why they wen't back to this horrid regressive design.

Their was NOTHING wrong with the tabard system and everything wrong with their ability to release stuff at a reasonable time frame.

[Moshic]

I hate the new system. Too time consuming.

Wait until you unlock Revered for all factions. 3 hours minimum DAILY at peak times to complete them all and stay competitive.

[Chaozu]

That is BLIZZARDS problem not yours. I mean it's true you might do that or some people might and frankly even under those circumstances your really exaggerating but even then it's up to Blizzard to keep frresh content coming my way at a reasonable pace. Again we had 9 months without new content under the old cataclysm system. They lost players but they still somehow managed to keep 9 million. Not only that during wotlk they had a PEAK of subs. People didn't blast through content in no time and they weren't leaving in droves. No the answer was and is to keep the system as it was in wotlk/cata and just not take 6-9 months to release patches. After 3-4 months people will get bored because even by that point the most casual of casuals will have seen it all and everybody and their alts will have seen at all.

Yeah they had peak subs during Wrath, which means that until then it head been increasing and at that point started to decrease. The peak was soon after Wrath's release if I'm not mistaken, which means that it was carried by the system from Burning Crusade, which did not have the tabard system, which let the content live for a much longer time. Wrath/Cataclysm system was basically ignore everything that is slightly outdated. You're saying the Wrath/Cataclysm system worked better even though that's when people started to leave? WoW lost a TON of subscribers during Cataclysm, it had a horrible design, hell even with MoP launch we are just above 10 million even though at Cataclysm launch we were up at 12, because people fear it's going to be just another Cataclysm expansion.

[davesurfer]

That said, no rep, and you dont get the item you want... Its not worth going just for the loot drop. Furthermore, raiders still did dungeons for rep previously. They don't now, so as soon as you outlevel dungeons in gear, theres no reason to go back.

In the previous model "raiders" actually maxed rep before they out geared the heroics, so not sure this makes any sense at all

[RandomGamer]

I don't like it. It's not about the mindless grind, or because it's time inefficient. It's about it being just an artificial way of Blizzard of making content last longer. It doesn't make things harder just slow and boring.

Their proposed fix for alts reputation doesn't help. I don't see myself doing dailies with every alt just to unlock valor gear. I'll just leave my alts rotting with 463 heroic blues or honor gear and wait for next patch.... Except I can't If I want to level up their professions.

So this is blizzard forcing you to play twice as much, forcing you out on the world.

[Glorious Leader]

Yeah they had peak subs during Wrath, which means that until then it head been increasing and at that point started to decrease. The peak was soon after Wrath's release if I'm not mistaken, which means that it was carried by the system from Burning Crusade, which did not have the tabard system, which let the content live for a much longer time. Wrath/Cataclysm system was basically ignore everything that is slightly outdated. You're saying the Wrath/Cataclysm system worked better even though that's when people started to leave? WoW lost a TON of subscribers during Cataclysm, it had a horrible design, hell even with MoP launch we are just above 10 million even though at Cataclysm launch we were up at 12, because people fear it's going to be just another Cataclysm expansion.

No it began to decrease when they STOPPED RELEASING CONTENT THAT WAS ACCESSIBLE TO PEOPLE. I.E IN cataclysm when (apparently) everyone felt it was to hard so that content wasn't accessible and later during the expansion when they just forsook the community for 9 months without anything and same for the end of wotlk when we had icc for god knows how long and one boss in between that was barely touched. Getting rid of tabards MAKES CONTENT LESS ACCESSIBLE TO PEOPLE. So they need to make content more accessible again and release more of it more often. I'm saying the overall reward system in cataclysm/wrath was perfect and made total sense (including rep farming through tabards) and had nothing to do with the reason that people left. It was the most progressive, finely tuned and the provided the most freedom I can think of. Do it at your own pace. As opposed to now where, hey don't log in YOU LOSE. Theirs lots you could have changed about cataclysm but the reward system (including tabard grinding) was the last thing I would have touched. I mean the argument being tossed around that this degree of gating is necessary is basically saying don't expect anything better than patches every 9 months. F2P games do better ffs.

[Chaozu]

I don't like it. It's not about the mindless grind, or because it's time inefficient. It's about it being just an artificial way of Blizzard of making content last longer. It doesn't make things harder just slow and boring.

Their proposed fix for alts reputation doesn't help. I don't see myself doing dailies with every alt just to unlock valor gear. I'll just leave my alts rotting with 463 heroic blues or honor gear and wait for next patch.... Except I can't If I want to level up their professions.

So this is blizzard forcing you to play twice as much, forcing you out on the world.

It's blizzards way to give players something to do, something players have been crying out for to no end throughout all of 4.3.

---------- Post added 2012-10-05 at 05:28 PM ----------

No it began to decrease when they STOPPED RELEASING CONTENT THAT WAS ACCESSIBLE TO PEOPLE. I.E IN cataclysm when (apparently) everyone felt it was to hard so that content wasn't accessible and later during the expansion when they just forsook the community for 9 months without anything and same for the end of wotlk when we had icc for god knows how long and one boss in between that was barely touched. Getting rid of tabards MAKES CONTENT LESS ACCESSIBLE TO PEOPLE. So they need to make content more accessible again and release more of it more often. I'm saying the overall reward system in cataclysm/wrath was perfect and made total sense (including rep farming through tabards) and had nothing to do with the reason that people left.

If less accessible means less mindless farming in dungeons then I say that's a good thing. You should run dungeons for item rewards, not for reputation with a faction. To gain a factions trust you should do things, for them. Releasing more content more often is exactly what Blizzard is working on but has nothing to do with reputations. It might have been perfect for you, but it was a horrible system for me. I'm guessing Blizzard feels the same way.

[Glorious Leader]

It's blizzards way to give players something to do, something players have been crying out for to no end throughout all of 4.3.

No that's misunderstanding what the community wanted. The community wanted something to do.. MORE OF WHAT THEY HAD ALREADY. Not 9 month gaps. That doesn't mean they want gated daily progression. THEY JUST WANTED BLIZZARD TO RELEASE MORE CONTENT not stretch their already shitty patch model to make it APPEAR like we've got more.

---------- Post added 2012-10-05 at 03:34 PM ----------

It's blizzards way to give players something to do, something players have been crying out for to no end throughout all of 4.3.

---------- Post added 2012-10-05 at 05:28 PM ----------


If less accessible means less mindless farming in dungeons then I say that's a good thing. You should run dungeons for item rewards, not for reputation with a faction. To gain a factions trust you should do things, for them. Releasing more content more often is exactly what Blizzard is working on but has nothing to do with reputations. It might have been perfect for you, but it was a horrible system for me. I'm guessing Blizzard feels the same way.

As opposed to what Mindless farming of daily quests? Cause that's soooooo much fucking better right? Hey man I'm local panda guy Y. You wanna get in good with me well do the same fucking thing for a whole month and then I'll love you. That's much more realistic then wear this tabard in this factions honor and gain cred with them. You should run dungeons for rewards that are subject to either being ninjad or RNG bullshit? I'm guessing Blizzard knows where it's bread is buttered. It will make the decision that makoes more of it's paid customers happy. The vast majority of who are casuals, who lost out when the system is tied to daily fucking nonsense. Hell they already made changes I would expect alot more coming.

[Chaozu]

No that's misunderstanding what the community wanted. The community wanted something to do.. MORE OF WHAT THEY HAD ALREADY. Not 9 month gaps. That doesn't mean they want gated daily progression. THEY JUST WANTED BLIZZARD TO RELEASE MORE CONTENT not stretch their already shitty patch model to make it APPEAR like we've got more.

The gap of content has pretty much always existed at the end of expansions, I recall people complaining in BC that the black temple had been going on for too long so they made sunwell, which didn't turn out all that well after all because it was so hard very few amount of people even got past the first boss or even set foot in there. Wrath had it with ICC, Cataclysm with DS, we will probably have it again in MoP.

I don't think it's that simple for Blizzard to just make more content. There was even a blue post reply on this matter only a couple of days ago that perhaps explains it better but, hiring more developers takes time, they need to make sure that they are skilled and passionate enough and that they really have work for them in the years to come. The content they are making also become more and more advanced, so it takes more time to develop the same amount of content because it's of higher quality.

Hell, even regular quests are a lot more advanced today compared to before. And gating the content does in a sense mean more, because it lasts for a longer time, because you're not devouring all of it at once like a fat kid eating chocolate, then crying for more when it's all gone.