View Poll Results: Which Rep System do you like?

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  • Current system. Dailies only for Rep. JP/VP needs Rep.

    159 40.56%
  • Wrath/Cata system. Tabards and Dailies for Rep. JP/VP buys gear regardless of Faction.

    181 46.17%
  • I like a different system.

    52 13.27%
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  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    The gap of content has pretty much always existed at the end of expansions, I recall people complaining in BC that the black temple had been going on for too long so they made sunwell, which didn't turn out all that well afterall because it was so hard very few amount of people even got past the first boss or even set foot in there. Wrath had it with ICC, Cataclysm with DS, we will probably have it again in MoP.

    I don't think it's that simple for Blizzard to just make more content. There was even a blue post reply on this matter only a couple of days ago that perhaps explains it better but, hiring more developers takes time, they need to make sure that they are skilled and passionate enough and that they really have work for them in the years to come. The content they are making also become more and more advanced, so it takes more time to develop the same amount of content because it's of higher quality.
    Single blue post aside if you go back and read some of the developer posts from GC one thing they talk about is exactly that doing a better job at releasing content faster. Not just because it took them 9 months to release pandas but also because their were just to many lulls during cataclysm without content. They've acknowledged this, it's their goal for pandas and apparently they're already on the ball for 5.1 and 5.2. Given that, I don't understand the regressive and limiting gating of this content, especially tied to dailies. Some gating I guess is required but this is excessive and frankly stupid. Tabards were fine, Blizzard was just slow to get content out. They know they were and they claim they want to do better. So do better. Don't make it appear you are by making content seem longer but not actually giving more of it.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Single blue post aside if you go back and read some of the developer posts from GC one thing they talk about is exactly that doing a better job at releasing content faster. Not just because it took them 9 months to release pandas but also because their were just to many lulls during cataclysm without content. They've acknowledged this, it's their goal for pandas and apparently they're already on the ball for 5.1 and 5.2. Given that, I don't understand the regressive and limiting gating of this content, especially tied to dailies. Some gating I guess is required but this is excessive and frankly stupid. Tabards were fine, Blizzard was just slow to get content out. They know they were and they claim they want to do better. So do better. Don't make it appear you are by making content seem longer but not actually giving more of it.
    I hope you are well aware that a lot of this content they speak of, is not raids or even necessarily dungeons. The content they speak of is to release more scenarios and daily quests in-between raids so you get something new to do while waiting for the next raid to be released. New battlegrounds and possibly dungeons were mentioned, but not guaranteed, even though we are of course going to see more dungeons added as the expansion goes forward, I wouldn't expect too much from said new non-raid patches.

    And again no, tabards were not fine.

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    I hope you are well aware that a lot of this content they speak of, is not raids or even necessarily dungeons. The content they speak of is to release more scenarios and daily quests in-between raids so you get something new to do while waiting for the next raid to be released. New battlegrounds and possibly dungeons were mentioned, but not guaranteed, even though we are of course going to see more dungeons added as the expansion goes forward, I wouldn't expect too much from said new non-raid patches.

    And again no, tabards were not fine.
    Tabards were indeed fine as it granted more freedom than being tied down to DAILY quests. That should be stressed. IF YOU DON'T DO THEM DAILY it doesn't work in your advantage.

    As for what the content they plan on releasing is we'll see. The raids themselves are gated and so is lfr and that I understand to an extent because raids are probably harder to produce. I'm fine with that. Gating everything else behind rep though is just stupid. It's a huge fucking cock block. It's not like you make VP that fast anyway so it's already gated by the limited supply you get. On top of that you now have to have this rep faction as well that can only be farmed one way, on a daily basis and with an artificial limit set to it. JP gear is also practically fucking useless. Another mechanic to gate character progression. They went overboard, it's crazy.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Tabards were indeed fine as it granted more freedom than being tied down to DAILY quests. That should be stressed. IF YOU DON'T DO THEM DAILY it doesn't work in your advantage.

    As for what the content they plan on releasing is we'll see. The raids themselves are gated and so is lfr and that I understand to an extent because raids are probably harder to produce. I'm fine with that. Gating everything else behind rep though is just stupid. It's a huge fucking cock block. It's not like you make VP that fast anyway so it's already gated by the limited supply you get. On top of that you now have to have this rep faction as well that can only be farmed one way, on a daily basis and with an artificial limit set to it. JP gear is also practically fucking useless. Another mechanic to gate character progression. They went overboard, it's crazy.
    Not having a restriction for X amount of rep per day is not really more freedom, as a lot of people, me included, would feel forced to farm up the rep asap, which is exactly what Blizzard wants to avoid. They want the content to last for as long as possible, and for good reason.

    As I said before I definitely feel that they should try to add an alternative to daily quests to gather rep for those who really don't like it, but it should still be restricted to the exact same amount per day, and be shared with it so you don't feel the need to do both.

    Also it was Ghostcrawler I believe who said that the extra patches will mostly include daily quests and scenarios, it's not something I just made up.

  5. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    Not having a restriction for X amount of rep per day is not really more freedom, as a lot of people, me included, would feel forced to farm up the rep asap, which is exactly what Blizzard wants to avoid. They want the content to last for as long as possible, and for good reason.

    As I said before I definitely feel that they should try to add an alternative to daily quests to gather rep for those who really don't like it, but it should still be restricted to the exact same amount per day, and be shared with it so you don't feel the need to do both.

    Also it was Ghostcrawler I believe who said that the extra patches will mostly include daily quests and scenarios, it's not something I just made up.
    By that same token placing ANY restriction on the amount you can do will make people feel forced to get the most out of it while they still can because once the day or the week is gone they miss out. Just because some of you can't control yourselves doesn't mean the rest of us should have to deal with your hangups. The correct solution is to simply remove any reward from REP. I mean at least anything that can progress your character gear wise. Then it's just mounts and vanity crap and nobody gives a fuck.

    Putting any restriction in is stupid. It's basically saying play every day or every week or whatever cap we set and fuck you. Daily quests are the worst example of this. Blizzard has progressively moved away from this over time and I'm not sure why they had an about face on this. Remember the change to VP from heroics that let you get away from doing it daily and 7 weekly? It's same thing with dailies man. In fact I'm shocked they haven't done this same thing with the daily quests, although it would be far more painful as dailies suck dick anyway you'd be grinding out god knows how many quests. In any event that just goes to show how limited and forced these daily quests are.

    The entire thing is one big fucking cock block for no good reason for the consumers. It does buy Blizzard plenty of leway to get more content out of the way and that's not a particularly good reason IMHO. If they can't do a better job of releasing actual content in this expansion when their competitors do it with less resources available to them well then that doesn't say very much about them does it.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-10-05 at 04:00 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Then allow me to restate my position. The excess of gating in this expansion is regressive, capricious and ultimately unrewarding. Can we agree it's a bit to much?
    Well considering that people consume content insanely fast when it isn't gated, then bitch about having nothing to do, I'd say that while they outwardly and actively find gating annoying, it extends the life of the game for them. I knew people that were exalted with every faction within the first week of cata because they ran instances 22/7, then bitched about having nothing to do. Blizzard has tried ungated content, and it obviously hasn't worked for retaining subscriptions, so they've switched back. It's hardly outdated.

    I'd also hardly call the gating "excessive". The expansion has been out a week and people want to have everything done already? Come on.

    I will concede to your point that being restricted to dailies and questing for rep, when some people find questing tedious, is a good point, and there should be other ways of attaining rep, but there should be a daily or weekly limit on the rep you can get because as has been said, some people feel this pressure to grind it as fast as they can... because they can, and it feels forced, rather than something that's at all fun.
    Last edited by The Batman; 2012-10-05 at 04:04 PM.

  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleros View Post
    Well considering that people consume content insanely fast when it isn't gated, then bitch about having nothing to do, I'd say that while they outwardly and actively find gating annoying, it extends the life of the game for them. I knew people that were exalted with every faction within the first week of cata because they ran instances 22/7, then bitched about having nothing to do. Blizzard has tried ungated content, and it obviously hasn't worked for retaining subscriptions, so they've switched back. It's hardly outdated.

    I'd also hardly call the gating "excessive". The expansion has been out a week and people want to have everything done already? Come on.
    List of gating mechanics so far in MoP

    Valor gear tied to faction rep
    Faction rep tied ONLY to daily quests
    Justice Gear being sub par and below heroic dungeon gear
    JP and Vp gained at an extremely slow rate
    LFR having an ilvl 463 requirement
    LFr and normal raids unavailable till this week (and the rest of the raids following this month)
    Caps on Vp on a weekly basis

    I'm probably missing more. I don't expect to have everything done in the first week. I do expect not to be cock blocked at every possible opportunity. When people say they bitched about having nothing to do it it wasn't because the experience was to rewarding. Who in their right fucking minds thinks thats worth complaining about? They complained because their wasn't enough of it. You either make more or do more with less. Blizzard has elected to do more with less.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-10-05 at 04:07 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    By that same token placing ANY restriction on the amount you can do will make people feel forced to get the most out of it while they still can because once the day or the week is gone they miss out. Just because some of you can't control yourselves doesn't mean the rest of us should have to deal with your hangups. The correct solution is to simply remove any reward from REP. I mean at least anything that can progress your character gear wise. Then it's just mounts and vanity crap and nobody gives a fuck.

    Putting any restriction in is stupid. It's basically saying play every day or every week or whatever cap we set and fuck you. Daily quests are the worst example of this. Blizzard has progressively moved away from this over time and I'm not sure why they had an about face on this. Remember the change to VP from heroics that let you get away from doing it daily and 7 weekly? It's same thing with dailies man. In fact I'm shocked they haven't done this same thing with the daily quests, although it would be far more painful as dailies suck dick anyway you'd be grinding out god knows how many quests. In any event that just goes to show how limited and forced these daily quests are.

    The entire thing is one big fucking cock block for no good reason for the consumers. It does buy Blizzard plenty of leway to get more content out of the way and that's not a particularly good reason IMHO. If they can't do a better job of releasing actual content in this expansion when their competitors do it with less resources available to them well then that doesn't say very much about them does it.
    Considering one of the biggest goals Blizzard seemed to have with MoP is a choice in playstyle, in how you get VP etc I'm also surprised by the approach of only being able to get rep through daily quests, but I don't think gating it is wrong at all. However, if you really dislike doing it it's fully possible to ignore it completely. Farming dungeons for JP gear which is 458 will easily get you into HC dungeons which gives 463 rare, which is easily good enough to start off raiding in. The VP gear is more of luxury stuff that just makes things easier, the real loot is in HC's and raids.

  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    Considering one of the biggest goals Blizzard seemed to have with MoP is a choice in playstyle, in how you get VP etc I'm also surprised by the approach of only being able to get rep through daily quests, but I don't think gating it is wrong at all. However, if you really dislike doing it it's fully possible to ignore it completely. Farming dungeons for JP gear which is 458 will easily get you into HC dungeons which gives 463 rare, which is easily good enough to start off raiding in. The VP gear is more of luxury stuff that just makes things easier, the real loot is in HC's and raids.
    Uhh I got into heroic dungeons without spending a single fucking justice point. That's the problem. Not only do you not get enough of them at a decent enough rate to make it worth farming for heroic dungeons, they are completely and utterly worthless at that point. Character progression takes a fucking huge ass nose dive. Vp is not a luxury, it was a method to help keep progression steady and give people the sense that they were getting somewhere. SOME gating isn't bad, I understand the raid gating to an extent but this amount is just cock blockery at it's finest. They went to far.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  10. #230
    People asked, people whined and cried like babies for more of a Vanilla type of playstyle meaning you have to GRIND endlessly to obtain what you want. You wanted world bosses and more world pvp, remember all of the 'Vanilla was the best' threads, i do. I guess the majority got what the majority wanted, yet there are still complainers because you can not go from neutral to exalted in an hour, boo hoo.

    If you want gear you have to grind to get it, at least you get this rep by doing the same sets of quests instead of slaying thousands of a certain type of mob. After everything is said and done there is actually more to do in this expansion that there ever has been. I personally love the additions to the game and will continue to like the future changes made because i adapt to the change, how else is a game that is 8 years old supposed to keep its subscribers?

    If you do not like it cancel your subscription and don't inform everyone else that you did so.

  11. #231
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    FUCK dailies.

    That is all.

    Being at work and cleaning those truly shit-smeared toilets is better than dailies. I get depressed whenever I log on to my only 90.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Dabrix32 View Post
    No and I refuse to do any quests becuase I hate questing. I never did Argent Tourney or any dailies during Wrath and I never did Molten Front Dailies during Cata. I just cant stand questing. Id rather actually play the game and run Heroics with other people for my rep. Questing is for leveling then it stops.
    I actually did the Argent Tournament dailies: During the lull a few months into ICC I unlocked everything, this summer I farmed all mounts.
    Molten Front I completed as well, shortly before DS was released.

    So even though I loathe dailes, I like vanity rewards, and I'll farm them during periods of low activity.

    But after grinding through a crapload of quests to hit 90? I'd be willing to do 2-3 quick dailies for professions, but beyond that I don't want to do another daily for at least a month. Which effectively locks me out of most of MoP, since everything requires dailies if you want to do it well.

  13. #233
    What I fail to see when people are all for the rep-grind and how it is great that you have to work for it and new and exciting.
    No it's not. You get different dailies everyday, yes, but there's only about 3 different combinations of dailies to get. After a week of doing these dailies I'm already burnt out and I don't feel like logging in today to do my dailies.

    I'm all for certain dungeons giving low amounts of rep to help the grind. Like in TBC. They just need something BESIDES dailies to let us gain rep because we all just quested non-stop to 90 and don't feel like doing that for the rest of this expansion.

  14. #234
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    Dailies being the only way to obtain rep is kinda dumb.

    What they should have done is made certain rep factions earnable in certain dungeons, similar to TBC. The Tillers, Anglers, and the Cloud Serpent could stay daily only, but the rest of the factions should have had very little dailies but still be earnable through dungeons. For example MgP would give you Golden Lotus rep, while Shado-Pan Monastery would give Shado-Pan rep, etc.

    I'm not a fan of "slap on tabard, spam random dungeons till exalted", but certain dungeons giving certain rep is okay in my eyes.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by chadiu View Post
    Dailies being the only way to obtain rep is kinda dumb.

    What they should have done is made certain rep factions earnable in certain dungeons, similar to TBC. The Tillers, Anglers, and the Cloud Serpent could stay daily only, but the rest of the factions should have had very little dailies but still be earnable through dungeons. For example MgP would give you Golden Lotus rep, while Shado-Pan Monastery would give Shado-Pan rep, etc.

    I'm not a fan of "slap on tabard, spam random dungeons till exalted", but certain dungeons giving certain rep is okay in my eyes.
    I liked this approach, but it was more gated in TBC in that you could only run so many heroics of a certain rep a day. Thus it was still gated. But it did allow people to earn faction rep. I agree that faction rep should be earnable from instances, and either have a daily cap on total rep gain for a particular faction (although each faction would have to have its own limit) or more reasonably, make it so that you only get rep from a heroic the first time you run it.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    List of gating mechanics so far in MoP

    Valor gear tied to faction rep
    Faction rep tied ONLY to daily quests
    Justice Gear being sub par and below heroic dungeon gear
    JP and Vp gained at an extremely slow rate
    LFR having an ilvl 463 requirement
    LFr and normal raids unavailable till this week (and the rest of the raids following this month)
    Caps on Vp on a weekly basis

    I'm probably missing more.
    Yeah, major one: VP now has hard cap - 3000, which is enough to buy only 1-2 pieces of gear. So if someone doesn't do dailies, he is losing VP.

  17. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    Yeah, major one: VP now has hard cap - 3000, which is enough to buy only 1-2 pieces of gear. So if someone doesn't do dailies, he is losing VP.
    Whoops. Forgot about that one thanks. Better get home and run my fucking daily quests...
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleros View Post
    I liked this approach, but it was more gated in TBC in that you could only run so many heroics of a certain rep a day. Thus it was still gated. But it did allow people to earn faction rep. I agree that faction rep should be earnable from instances, and either have a daily cap on total rep gain for a particular faction (although each faction would have to have its own limit) or more reasonably, make it so that you only get rep from a heroic the first time you run it.
    Why? In TBC you could run unlimited amount of non-heroics for getting exalted (and it didn't even take that long to unlock revered for heroics, doing some instances during leveling would almost grant you revered). Rep gating in TBC was made only so people in heroics would know that their companions know how this instance works from doing it on normal couple times. Badge vendor could be used no matter of reputation.

  19. #239
    Unless people can burn through rep quickly, it eliminates alts or it requires that rep not gate anything. But then if they can burn through it quickly, it doesn't keep people playing very much.

    I think rep should gate cosmetic things, probably BoA things, and be gradually accumulated over the expansion.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  20. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I think rep should gate cosmetic things, probably BoA things, and be gradually accumulated over the expansion.
    I have no objection to that one bit. Gating valor with it, when valor itself is already heavily gated is so fucking asanine...
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

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