Ask Anything! MSV 10man Normal + Heroic!

[Shootz]

For Wind Lord, we 1 tanked and 3 healed it.

Our strat with the adds worked extremely well. We cc'ed 2 battle-menders, 1 blade-master, and 1 amber-shaper. We then had people watch interrupts on the battle-mender, and we procceeded to aoe down all mobs together, and focus them down to bring them in line with each others hp. We had every add die within 5-10 seconds of the first dying, which was the battle-mender.

We then just rotated cd's for the rain of blades, and beat enrage by just under a minute.

My guild wanted to do this as well but I couldn't for the life of me understand the reasoning behind it. At the start of the fight you have 5 mobs on you and 4 mobs CC'd. Once one mob goes down you have 2 mobs CC'd and 4 mobs on you. Once a second mob goes down you have 0 mobs CC'd and 3 mobs on you.

At no point does the loss in CC cause you to have more mobs on you than you ever did previously. Levelling their hp out to drop at the same time just extends the amount of time that you have five mobs attacking you and also requires un-needed target swapping as some groups of mobs are going to get taken lower by cleaves than others (1 mender + 2 of each other mob in group = Trappers and Blademaster hp drops significantly faster than the mender group)

Anyway, the fight's easy enough that it doesn't really matter, I just can't really figure out what possible advantage you achieve by dropping the adds all at the same time.

[PalawinFC]

If you're 4/6 MV, you killed Heroic Spirit Kings before Elegon?

Yes.

Amber shaper:

Oh boy where to start from...
Number of healers you'd sugest for this fight?
How did you deal with Living amber adds?
Mutated construct mechanic... while I believe I understood the way it should be dealt with , I could use some info from "first hand" How often boss casts "Reshape life"? Do you release orignal Construct and same person gets it again while taking care of timers and keeping debuff on the boss etc etc.

Could you just write some tips about the encounter so I don't spam you here with numerous questions?

2 healed 2 tanked, the living amber adds were a lower priority than the monstrosity but higher than the boss.

If you update DBM there is a timer for reshape life. The trick to this fight is stacking the damage taken debuff on the boss. In phase 1 he will cast reshape life on the tanks. In phase 2 he seems to cast it on anyone.

In phase 2 and 3 we had anyone who was a monstrosity just spam 1 on the kill target rather than saving it to interrupt (the explosion done by the phase 2 add really isnt that significant compared to the amber explosion cast by a reshaped player) and be ready to hit 2 when you begin casting your explosion.
The thing that really made this fight click for us was realising that you want to delay breaking out of each monstrosity until right before the next one comes out... this way you never lose the dmg taken debuff on the boss! We found that in order for this timing to line up each monstrosity would have to consume ONE pool each to stay alive long enough to keep refreshing the debuff.

Stacking the damage taken debuff really high made the fight very easy. Our second healer got MCed right at the very beginning of phase 3 and we ended up solo healing the entire phase.

Once everyone in your raid understands the monstrosity mechanic it becomes a lot easier.

---------- Post added 2012-11-02 at 02:22 PM ----------

With 3 trappers active, will there be more prisons than people to break it?

As Shootz is saying, we managed to stay ahead of it. BoP works, bubble/iceblock work, human racial works.

---------- Post added 2012-11-02 at 02:28 PM ----------

Windlord seems to require a bit more thinking on our part. The main problem was the dmg during the last phase, where only the boss is alive. We realized that 3 healers were too much compared to the enrage timer but 2 healers struggle and lost dps at the end, thus meeting the enrage timer was impossible. We only had like 4 attempts on him but the healing requirements seems rather insane towards the end.

Make sure your raiders are aware to dodge the boomerang he throws (i think its called whirling blade?) getting hit by it is horrible and/or impossible to heal through and its 100% avoidable. Other than that the only intense healing is the rain of blades thing which you just have to rotate cooldowns for!

[Raxxed]

Hi usual posters/lurkers of the thread,

I'm going to be moving into 25man raiding - so obviously I won't be much use in this thread anymore :P

Hopefully those who are helpful in this thread continue to be!

Wish you all the best of luck,

Raxxed

[Serb]

Hi usual posters/lurkers of the thread,

I'm going to be moving into 25man raiding - so obviously I won't be much use in this thread anymore :P

Hopefully those who are helpful in this thread continue to be!
Wish you all the best of luck,

Raxxed

Woot? Good luck with 25mans mate!

[Deleted]

Hi,
we are downing guardians and feng without problems, but when we try garajal, we are never even close to killing him when enrage hits (50%!). Even stone guardians we are killing near enrage. So- our top dps can manage 60k when going two target.. never more than 50 on single. Is this normal or do they just suck? (I am inclined to believe in the second option). Or is garajal possible to kill with stacking the buff as much as possible?
The same problem we had at vizier last night. Instead of burning the force and verve platform we always got 3 or even 4 AOE to heal. And thats really shitloads of dmg. Thats the second part- we are using those shields as intended(never more than 4 players) but that dmg is insane. We can handle 3-4 aoes tranq-tranq-totem-all remaining cds, but i cant imagine what would we do if he casts it for 5th or even 6th time in phase two.. For vizier all dps did around 44 k or less. So do I have to learn all rotations myself and then learn our dps´s how to do it, or is this normal?
Thank for reply,Mend / i am sorry that i got no logs/

Our tank did logs! http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/0fijk30dr5ly7omu/

edit: I am watching those logs, and yes, that warrior who is sometimes topping the dmg (for example at feng) is our main tank.

[Sonnillon]

It will be hard Matash.

Our stoneguard/feng logs - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/a...um/damageDone/ Topping the meters as tank, specially in stoneguard is easy as a MT, even as an OT. You sit at 80-90k vengence all the time, which gives you nice DPS boost as a tank.

Gara'jal logs - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/t...um/damageDone/ , but you have to remember that in Gara'jal the log recording is not accurate, if the one doing the logs goes to spirit world.

Our DPS is bit better then yours, granted on our last night Gara'jal attempt (we got a 2% wipe on almost the last go) we run with 1 alt and one healer in DPS OS,most probably if we would had someone else, this would've been a kill.

As for stacking the buff... Yes, you can, but it will not give you that much improvement. 2 heal the fight, made it easier for us. Have you hpala go spirit world with your best DPS, LoH him/her and the the hpala leaves the realm. LoH gives around 22 stacks. The larger the heal the more stack it builds in one go. The buff lasts for 20 sec. so don't send down the person who has the buff right after he has come out. Have all of your DPS go in and get few stacks. Pop BL/Hero/TW when you best DPS have exited, since the haste from BL and spirit realm buff is a very nice combo.

[damz2969]

Hi,
we are downing guardians and feng without problems, but when we try garajal, we are never even close to killing him when enrage hits (50%!). Even stone guardians we are killing near enrage. So- our top dps can manage 60k when going two target.. never more than 50 on single. Is this normal or do they just suck? (I am inclined to believe in the second option). Or is garajal possible to kill with stacking the buff as much as possible?
The same problem we had at vizier last night. Instead of burning the force and verve platform we always got 3 or even 4 AOE to heal. And thats really shitloads of dmg. Thats the second part- we are using those shields as intended(never more than 4 players) but that dmg is insane. We can handle 3-4 aoes tranq-tranq-totem-all remaining cds, but i cant imagine what would we do if he casts it for 5th or even 6th time in phase two.. For vizier all dps did around 44 k or less. So do I have to learn all rotations myself and then learn our dps´s how to do it, or is this normal?
Thank for reply,Mend / i am sorry that i got no logs/

Our tank did logs! http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/0fijk30dr5ly7omu/

edit: I am watching those logs, and yes, that warrior who is sometimes topping the dmg (for example at feng) is our main tank.

Unfortunately your DPS is extremely bad.

Make sure they all:
- have properly gemmed, enchanted and reforged their gear
- use efficient talents and glyphs for each individual encounter
- use flasks, food buffs and potions (preferably both prepull and midfight)
- fully understand and know their rotations/cast priorities as well as the mechanics of the fight and execute them well

Just doing the above should be the minimum requirement for anyone entering an organized raid, if they are not willing to put in the little effort required to do this, they should quit raiding and go LFR instead.

[Deleted]

Holy cow, that's some low dps.
In regard to your actual question - don't stand in the lightning puddles, healers need to make an effort to move far away from lightning puddles and tanks need to make an effort to stand close to them to pick the adds up as they spawn

---------- Post added 2012-11-02 at 02:28 AM ----------



They just .... spawn. Is the best way to say it

They usually spawn in groups of 2

---------- Post added 2012-11-02 at 02:28 AM ----------



Yes we're focusing the adds. The boss is usually sub 90% after all adds are dead from incidental aoe.

---------- Post added 2012-11-02 at 02:31 AM ----------



1tanking results in more dps in the burn, that's where it counts

We used hpally/monk

Monk 475 ilvl
Hpally 483

I know that Monk healers are in a really good spot atm and with that ilvl on your Monk, you being able to 2 heal it kinda make me think that it's easier with a Monk healer. Anyways, replacing a tank for a dps would only benefit us in the last phase, since the 2 tanks are unbeatable dps wise, as long as adds are up (gotta love Vengeance).

I still don't quite get, how you managed to get through the AoE at the end, cause we lost people even though we had Tranq and SLT running. We had 3 Tranq's available, tanks off healing with NS and LoH plus Natures Vigil was up and still we lost people.

[Tojara]

I have one question regarding amber-shaper. Obviously if you DPS down the player construct to 20% you get the break free action command on your bar, what I am curious about is whether healing AFTER that occurs (by eating a pool) makes it so you can no longer break free.

[Deleted]

I have one question regarding amber-shaper. Obviously if you DPS down the player construct to 20% you get the break free action command on your bar, what I am curious about is whether healing AFTER that occurs (by eating a pool) makes it so you can no longer break free.

Going out on a limb here, i'll say (without having done the encounter) that that will mostlikely cause the button to dissapear. Otherwise everyone and their mom would dps shit ot 20% and then just... eat 999999999 pools and gtfo of the construct.

[damz2969]

I know that Monk healers are in a really good spot atm and with that ilvl on your Monk, you being able to 2 heal it kinda make me think that it's easier with a Monk healer. Anyways, replacing a tank for a dps would only benefit us in the last phase, since the 2 tanks are unbeatable dps wise, as long as adds are up (gotta love Vengeance).

I still don't quite get, how you managed to get through the AoE at the end, cause we lost people even though we had Tranq and SLT running. We had 3 Tranq's available, tanks off healing with NS and LoH plus Natures Vigil was up and still we lost people.

We had 1 tank and 2 healers, but funnily enough, both our healers died at the first AOE after the adds died together with a DPS. We ressed the holy paladin, but he was basically oom after dying. So with 9 people, only a single oom holy pala healer, raid cds, personal cds, healthstones, self healing and some healing from our shadow priest and ele shaman, we managed to survive and ended up killing him.

[dennisdkramer]

At no point does the loss in CC cause you to have more mobs on you than you ever did previously. Levelling their hp out to drop at the same time just extends the amount of time that you have five mobs attacking you and also requires un-needed target swapping as some groups of mobs are going to get taken lower by cleaves than others (1 mender + 2 of each other mob in group = Trappers and Blademaster hp drops significantly faster than the mender group)

Anyway, the fight's easy enough that it doesn't really matter, I just can't really figure out what possible advantage you achieve by dropping the adds all at the same time.

Each time you kill a group of mobs the boss deals significantly more damage to the main tank.
Having all 3 of a given add type at once is not ideal - blademasters will one shot people so not an option. Menders will cast quickness on the boss, who is already doing massive damage with 2 groups dead and is likely to instagib your tank. amber-shapers are mostly just an annoyance but if both healers get imprisoned your tank will probably die without cooldowns.

[Deleted]

We had 1 tank and 2 healers, but funnily enough, both our healers died at the first AOE after the adds died together with a DPS. We ressed the holy paladin, but he was basically oom after dying. So with 9 people, only a single oom holy pala healer, raid cds, personal cds, healthstones, self healing and some healing from our shadow priest and ele shaman, we managed to survive and ended up killing him.

Our healing team is actually really strong but our Hpala wasn't available yesterday though. It's probably more about the dps not doing enough to keep themselves alive tbh, they rely too much on the healers in general. But if you managed to do this with an oom healer, our raiders just have to step it up.

[Deleted]

Anyway, the fight's easy enough that it doesn't really matter, I just can't really figure out what possible advantage you achieve by dropping the adds all at the same time.

There really isn't that much of a difference, but... I suppose the advantage is that the boss won't gain recklessness until the end, so I would say that the raid and tank damage is lower even if you maintain 5 adds instead of 4 then 3. Raid dps shouldn't slow down that much, if people keep single target damage (while aoeing everything ofc) on the solo add.

[Deleted]

Unfortunately your DPS is extremely bad.

Make sure they all:
- have properly gemmed, enchanted and reforged their gear
- use efficient talents and glyphs for each individual encounter
- use flasks, food buffs and potions (preferably both prepull and midfight)
- fully understand and know their rotations/cast priorities as well as the mechanics of the fight and execute them well

Just doing the above should be the minimum requirement for anyone entering an organized raid, if they are not willing to put in the little effort required to do this, they should quit raiding and go LFR instead.

I already did that with our mage who is now doing around 70k on dummy without buffs, so i have become a little expert on mages, because I did study it properly. But I must say I dont know if I am able to do this with everyone Is there some mighty dps who want to transfer to drakthul eu alliance to play with me? ;-) One skilled tank would be cool as well

[Shootz]

There really isn't that much of a difference, but... I suppose the advantage is that the boss won't gain recklessness until the end, so I would say that the raid and tank damage is lower even if you maintain 5 adds instead of 4 then 3. Raid dps shouldn't slow down that much, if people keep single target damage (while aoeing everything ofc) on the solo add.

Yeah, that makes sense. We killed it 2nd attempt so I didn't really get much time to see or think about all the mechanics.

I have one question regarding amber-shaper. Obviously if you DPS down the player construct to 20% you get the break free action command on your bar, what I am curious about is whether healing AFTER that occurs (by eating a pool) makes it so you can no longer break free.

The button does indeed disappear when you go above 20% hp. You want as many pools up as possible in the last phase anyway so it's not a big deal.

[CallMeGrey]

We have been working on Elegon and finally got to the last phase - and everyone melts in about 10-15 seconds. Logs say that there is 350-400k raid damage per second going out. We are supposed to 2 heal thru that? (healers are monk and druid)

We also have issues at times getting all the orbs down. Our dps are warrior, boomkin, lock, fire mage, hunter and ele shammy. The mage, hunter, and shammy sometimes have problems - lack of focus, no procs, ramp up for damage. We have the lock dot the mages target and the tank helping the shammy on one side and helping the hunter on the other, but still often are only able to get 3 waves down. Any tips?

[Serb]

We have been working on Elegon and finally got to the last phase - and everyone melts in about 10-15 seconds. Logs say that there is 350-400k raid damage per second going out. We are supposed to 2 heal thru that? (healers are monk and druid)

We also have issues at times getting all the orbs down. Our dps are warrior, boomkin, lock, fire mage, hunter and ele shammy. The mage, hunter, and shammy sometimes have problems - lack of focus, no procs, ramp up for damage. We have the lock dot the mages target and the tank helping the shammy on one side and helping the hunter on the other, but still often are only able to get 3 waves down. Any tips?

Hey there, first of all are you talking about normal or hard mode? The dmg you are mentioning in last phase is rather high -are you reseting stacks in last phase at all?
Wierd that you get that amount of dmg within 10-15 seconds. We are 2 man healing it ever since we killed it first time , both on normal and hard mode.

From hunter perspective:
your hunter should use Cobra Shot before orbs/sparks spawn in order to have his focus bar filled up , and save instant shots / abillities for orbs. I personaly don't use serpent sting on those since they're duying very quick so it's waste of GCD.
Also tell him /them to save some minor dps CD's for later spawns (3rd onwards) and use them wisely , one CD per new wave should do.

We're experiencing problems with those only on hard mode and it's usualy only our ele shaman that can't kill 4th orb , even tho he's one of our best dps'rs in general.
In general your burst classes shouldn't need help for orbs , it's mainly certain casters that should be supported by tanks.
4+4 orbs is perfectly viable for both normal / hard mode if you struggle with those.

[Squishei]

I have one question regarding amber-shaper. Obviously if you DPS down the player construct to 20% you get the break free action command on your bar, what I am curious about is whether healing AFTER that occurs (by eating a pool) makes it so you can no longer break free.

Yes it makes it so that you cannot break free if the healing brings you above 20%. The timing usually works out that each construct must eat one pool so factor that when dosing constructs down.

[Vasilisa]

Does Zen Meditation work on Force Verve on Zor'lok encounter?