[Balance] Addressing low DPS

[Joeri2]

If you pick up the right gear and play properly too you should push somewhere between 55-60k dps on the first 4 bosses in MSV. Thats from a 25 man perspective, in a 10 man it might be different.

[Mudkiper]

The question is, how much is everyone else in your raid doing? I've been beaten blue and black by our rogue who was doing about 60k (still not the best DPS you can do, but considering we're in mostly blues..) whereas I was fighting to get to 38k. That is a BIG difference (probably also in skill since, as I mentioned, I just rerolled).

Eh, that's you doing something wrong, not the class, I can manage 60-70k single target.

[Sissadora]

Eh, that's you doing something wrong, not the class, I can manage 60-70k single target.

That's what everyone keeps saying (that we should be managing 60-70k). And I am aware I could improve, but gimme a log dammit :P

[seutoxze]

I dont seem to have any problems at all keeping up with the other dpsers in the normal MV so far actually topping some fights even but never anywhere close to middle.

[Despite]

I dont seem to be behind in raids, however in parties in challenge modes i am. Especially our aoe isnt great anymore, its just average and we were always in bottom section single target.

For me the solution is simply add x % damage to our dots. Then we will be fine

[chinobar]

On that Gara'jal log, you have a very low NG uptime for having SotF and you stayed in Lunar almost half the fight, or is the log bugged?

[Sissadora]

I know a lot of the DPS is skewed there because of the fact that I was in the Spirit Realm with different people at different times, but not sure why I would have been in Lunar all the time.. I'll need to investigate.

[CuriousJoe]

Eh, that's you doing something wrong, not the class, I can manage 60-70k single target.

Logs or gtfo.

[Oak-qt]

our moonkin has been doing great, i don't see an issue.

[asharia]

An increase in dot duration and a buff to dot damage would be awesome. Hopefully enough to make multidotting/dot cleaving worth while again.

[turawkfr]

Originally Posted by Mudkiper
Eh, that's you doing something wrong, not the class, I can manage 60-70k single target.

Logs or gtfo.

well, I've checked his logs.. nice DPS indeed.. (not 70k tho..)
And still bottom 3 dps in all 3 logs that I've checked.. nothing to be so proud about and certainly not tell others they are bad..

worldoflogs.com/reports/v8pdev5qd525tur4/sum/damageDone/?s=672&e=1097
worldoflogs.com/reports/v9jhrfen3w2kts6c/sum/damageDone/?s=3451&e=4001
worldoflogs.com/reports/v9jhrfen3w2kts6c/sum/damageDone/?s=1314&e=1634

Still think Boomkin could do with a boost myself.
No matter how hard I try.. bottom as well..

[Davoo2080]

Am I the only druid who's actually happy with our dps? ¬_¬ On all the bosses so far I've been the top side of recount, top 3 on some.

Well, that's a blatant lie unless WoL is lying. You are top 3 on one multidotting fight, bottom 3 on 3/5 of fights on WoL, and nr. and bottom 5-6 on the last.

[Joeri2]

Well I can say I am on the top side of recount though 60k single target dps in 467 equiped is posible but intense to achieve. Look at the WoL MSV moonkin 25 player ranks, there are plenty people pushing good numbers.

[Zoopercat]

Hey there, I'm one of the people behind Ask Mr. Robot. I see a couple people said they think it's wrong. If you can give me examples, I'll check into it!

Everything we do is based on stat weights, and if you don't like the default ones we provide you can always put in your own Based on whatever stat weights you use, Mr. Robot just does a lot of math behind the scenes to decide what gems, enchants and reforges you should get, including which socket bonuses are worth it, etc. He also takes into account racial bonuses, professions, diminishing returns, etc. Here's more info about how it works for those that are curious.

Let me know what you disagree with - we're always improving the tool. http://blog.askmrrobot.com/2012/10/h...ptimizer-work/

[CuriousJoe]

Originally Posted by Mudkiper
Eh, that's you doing something wrong, not the class, I can manage 60-70k single target.


well, I've checked his logs.. nice DPS indeed.. (not 70k tho..)
And still bottom 3 dps in all 3 logs that I've checked.. nothing to be so proud about and certainly not tell others they are bad..

worldoflogs.com/reports/v8pdev5qd525tur4/sum/damageDone/?s=672&e=1097
worldoflogs.com/reports/v9jhrfen3w2kts6c/sum/damageDone/?s=3451&e=4001
worldoflogs.com/reports/v9jhrfen3w2kts6c/sum/damageDone/?s=1314&e=1634

Still think Boomkin could do with a boost myself.
No matter how hard I try.. bottom as well..

45k, 50k and 60k, while other DDs are pushing at least 8-20k more.

Yeah, 60-70k, sure...

[Alzu]

Hey there, I'm one of the people behind Ask Mr. Robot. I see a couple people said they think it's wrong. If you can give me examples, I'll check into it!

Everything we do is based on stat weights, and if you don't like the default ones we provide you can always put in your own Based on whatever stat weights you use, Mr. Robot just does a lot of math behind the scenes to decide what gems, enchants and reforges you should get, including which socket bonuses are worth it, etc. He also takes into account racial bonuses, professions, diminishing returns, etc. Here's more info about how it works for those that are curious.

Let me know what you disagree with - we're always improving the tool. http://blog.askmrrobot.com/2012/10/h...ptimizer-work/

My biggest issue is the default stat weights and lack of options. After asking my character to be optimized, it took all my haste reforges away because the default stat weights value crit over haste always while in reality the first haste cap (5273 without T14 4-set bonus) is very valuable. It took me a while to understand that when setting the custom stat weights soft caps, you use raid buffed per cents, for haste at least. Ratings should always be used in my opinion.

The options the system lacks are being able to ignore certain slots. E.g. I have a 450 belt and don't want to spend a belt buckle on that as I will get a new one soon. The issue is that I can't tell the system to ignore that slot in terms of enchant optimizing. I also don't have access to +180 int enchants currently so I have to exlude all expensive enchants to ignore that slot. Also having to set hit's value to 100 just to have the system have the cap always is a pain.

To be honest, the system has improved a ton from the last time I visited it but the things I mentioned above need fixing. Especially as many people using it don't know about the real stat weights and only use the default ones. Nice work, but needs polishing.

P.S. Icy veins's guides are generally very basic but also quite unreliable (telling people to keep mushrooms on CD in AoE and listing Inscribed Jade Fan as BiS, what??), I wouldn't suggest that you point players to learn how to play from there.

[Zoopercat]

Alzu, thanks for the feedback. It's always helpful to see it, so that we know how much a feature is in demand, find bugs, or take a look at default stat weights.

Regarding Haste reforges: Mr. Robot uses an 'at least' condition when trying to get you to a haste breakpoint. He knows that you can't get the benefit of the breakpoint if you can't reach it. So, if you can't reach it with your current gear and gem/reforge options, he uses the 'regular' weight on Haste, until you CAN reach it. Does that make sense? I'm not sure if that's happening with your character, if you can give me a link to your character on AMR, I'll look into your specific case (providing me a link will give me any custom weights and breakpoints you are using).

Regarding the belt buckle (and other expensive things): We decided not to put in options to ignore those because we have a feeling the prices will drop dramatically soon, since the economy will mellow out like in other expansions. In the meantime, there's a work around. I admit it's a hack, but it gets the same result for now: lock in a stat that doesn't matter, like agility for the belt buckle. Then Mr. Robot can optimize everything else, knowing that you don't have int, spirit, haste, etc there.

As for hit, getting exactly to the hit cap isn't always best. Sometimes being 20 hit under, as an example, results in more DPS. Here's an example: let's say the that stat priorities are Crit > Haste > Mastery. Now, there are a finite number of reforge/gem combos to get you exactly to the hit cap. Let's say to get exactly to the cap, you have to reforge ALL of your Crit to Hit. Since Crit is your best secondary stat in this scenario, that's not good. Mr. Robot is going to try to reforge Mastery (your worst secondary stat) into Hit when possible. If that doesn't work, then he'll start eating into Haste, then Crit as a last resort. So he might put you 20 hit under the cap, but he did it by taking away your least important secondary stat and preserving your best one. Does that make sense?

I know a lot of people REALLY want to be hit capped, even if it lowers DPS. But Mr. Robot optimizes your DPS, which is why he sometimes puts you under the cap.

Regarding Icy-Veins: we had a lot of people comment how much they like them as a resources. And we do too - it's a very nice one-stop shop to get up-to-speed on a class/spec. Sure, a lot of bloggers or people on EJ have super-in-depth info that IV doesn't have, and people can still go there. In fact, we're working on collecting resources from specific theorycrafters to link to them as well. I've chatted with the guys at IV and they are continuously updating each class/spec for MoP, so I'd suggest to keep going back. They're a bunch of smart guys - we were recently chatting about rogue weights and how SimC seems to suggest weird weights. The IV guys looked into it and found a major bug in SimC. So they are no strangers to all of these tools and theorycraft I'd say, give em some time to catch up with all of the new MoP theory

[Sissadora]

45k, 50k and 60k, while other DDs are pushing at least 8-20k more.

Yeah, 60-70k, sure...

This is what I've seen in our raid too. I was a steady amount of behind no matter what I did, so I think that to a certain extent we just need a little push with dot damage or whatever.

Anyhow, it's nice to see Ask Mr. Robot folks coming over and recommending that people actually help the site improve. I really like the functionality and I can understand that it needs a LOT of tweaking to be up-to-date all the time..

[Batix]

I don't think logs for moonkin dps are working properly atm.

[ichime]

The problem with not being hit capped is that it can completely mess with eclipse, so I tend to prefer sacrificing a few more points in crit or haste to get over the cap. The rotation simply doesn't work if you can miss.