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  1. #1

    Prot - Seal of Truth/Censure Nerf, Seal of Insight thoughts

    Just wanted to get other Prot Pally's opinions on these changes. Seems a bit extreme to me, and I don't think the buff to HW and AS is on par with the 80% nerf. And tanking with SoI? I guess I missed that memo

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Havenmess View Post
    Just wanted to get other Prot Pally's opinions on these changes. Seems a bit extreme to me, and I don't think the buff to HW and AS is on par with the 80% nerf. And tanking with SoI? I guess I missed that memo
    If what they said was true in fact *and im sure it is because i was getting wrath from symbioses* Censure is still hitting very hard, I was averaging 80k ticks last night during raids. and overall it was my #1 damage. ALTHOUGH if you lack strong healers, i would say go with insight. I was able to solo the first trash pack in MSV with SoI, it's extremely strong atm.

  3. #3
    High Overlord
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    I must've missed that memo too. So does that mean SoI is now our go-to seal (assuming you'd use AS and HW every chance you get), or am I reading too much into this?
    I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

  4. #4
    SOI gives 10% haste too right, which further helps smooth out our damage due to shit coming off cd quicker/better uptimes? Not sure if it still gives that haste though, can't remember/

  5. #5
    I've been using it and the damage is a lot smoother. I think with seal of insight we finally have the survivability of dks. Also the battle healer glyph is pretty interesting and might be extremely useful for raids.

  6. #6
    Given this change I will be using SoT in early stages of the fight when threat needs to be established properly. After first 30 seconds or so, I think we'll have to switch to SoI (unless our healers are fully asleep due to having nothing to do). As mentioned above - SoI improves haste, hence giving us more buttons to hit and more damage to do as well.

  7. #7
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aceshigh View Post
    SOI gives 10% haste too right, which further helps smooth out our damage due to shit coming off cd quicker/better uptimes? Not sure if it still gives that haste though, can't remember/
    It's 10% spell haste/casting speed. It doesn't affect Sanctity of Battle since they changed that to scale off melee haste.

  8. #8
    I am sorry to say that, but whoever designed these changes has no clue on current situation with prot. paladins. They must be buffed in damage across board by at least 100% in all abilities. It is shame when I get my blood DK lv85, whom I don't really know how to play and who isn't even fully DS normal geared, and I deal more damage on him than on my lv90 paladin. I won't go in depth on how it is frustrating will it be to tank with other co-tanks in raids, who have way more damage and thus threat, but mere doing of dailies is not even a chore but a highest form of masochism, especially with damage barely scaling with gear.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivin View Post
    It's 10% spell haste/casting speed. It doesn't affect Sanctity of Battle since they changed that to scale off melee haste.
    Ah right on, wasn't sure how that worked now. Thanks for clearing it up.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Entropy View Post
    If what they said was true in fact *and im sure it is because i was getting wrath from symbioses* Censure is still hitting very hard, I was averaging 80k ticks last night during raids. and overall it was my #1 damage. ALTHOUGH if you lack strong healers, i would say go with insight. I was able to solo the first trash pack in MSV with SoI, it's extremely strong atm.
    the hotfix just got in... that damage u had last night is gone

  11. #11
    I'll start with a question:

    If both the on-hit damage and DoT damage are being reduced by 80%, does that make Righteousness as strong as or stronger than Truth for single-target damage purposes?

    Followed by an optimistic comment:

    If we're intended to tank with Insight, at least that allays my fears about the behavior of that seal with Hammer of the Righteous being fixed/nerfed (it presently checks for a proc on every target hit, not just the primary target and only one actually being "meleed," giving protection paladins amazing survivability scaling against large AoE packs).

    And nowwwww ... the rant:

    Already probably the last-place tanks for damage output, protection paladins get a 50% boost to a 15-second cooldown (okay, so it does have a cooldown reset proc) and a 100% boost to a 9-second cooldown, but lose 80% of the damage from their most damaging single-target ability.

    That ability being a seal that, up until this point, most of us had assumed (from experience in Cataclysm, and with no prior indication otherwise) was our primary tanking seal. A reasonable assumption considering that we trailed other tanks on damage even with its use.

    So out of the blue (pun not originally intended), we're told that they've expected us to use the Holy paladin seal all this time. And that the trade off for using Seal of Truth was "much too lucrative" (translation: sacrificing mitigation for damage but remaining behind other tanks' damage output is simply too good for us).

    Blood knights, however, continue to get to have it all. The highest-damage tank was untouched by this so-called tank balance pass. Blizzard thinks that an overall nerf to the damage output of the lowest-damage tank is a buff that will help us catch up. Where have I heard that before? Oh, yeah. In about two dozen previous patch notes for various underperforming classes that were inexplicably further nerfed.
    Last edited by Kaeth; 2012-10-03 at 08:37 PM.

  12. #12
    Moderator Fhi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havenmess View Post
    And tanking with SoI? I guess I missed that memo
    I thought it was odd too. But I'm mostly curious about what it does to our survivability (solo stuffs mostly) and whether our damage output is still competitive.

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  13. #13
    Tried tanking some heroics with SoI + Glyph of Battle Healer active. This could be a potentially OP combo for Challenge Modes because it'll allow DPS hybrid healers (Disc/WW) to really shine.

  14. #14
    What i seen on the blue posts this morning, explains alot


    http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...ent-hot-fixes/
    Last edited by Lotzadotz; 2012-10-03 at 09:00 PM.

  15. #15
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    It's pretty awesome, tbh. Doing lots of damage (specially in Aoe) and a bunch of self healing. Look at our recount meters, for dmg and healing, for our Guardian Kill:


    (I'm Angerstrike, doh).


  16. #16
    Herald of the Titans 4KhazModan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havenmess View Post
    And tanking with SoI? I guess I missed that memo
    I must have missed it too. Never used Seal of Insight, as the threat paled in comparison to SoT. I don't know if the new numbers are enough to keep our threat in line with the other tank though. Only time will tell.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by 4KhazModan View Post
    I must have missed it too. Never used Seal of Insight, as the threat paled in comparison to SoT. I don't know if the new numbers are enough to keep our threat in line with the other tank though. Only time will tell.
    I was outthreatening a warrior tank in raids today by a mile, threat is non-issue.

  18. #18
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4KhazModan View Post
    I must have missed it too. Never used Seal of Insight, as the threat paled in comparison to SoT. I don't know if the new numbers are enough to keep our threat in line with the other tank though. Only time will tell.
    If you see my image, posted a couple posts above, I was using SoI and it was doing fine. Engaging is tough (I was taking 2 guardians) since one would easily aggro a dps, but it's just a matter of not using taunt to pull and save it for when the mob runs. Plus, as you can see, damage surely wasn't bad ^^ and self healing was insane (beat the DK tank by miles).


  19. #19
    Herald of the Titans 4KhazModan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimord View Post
    If you see my image, posted a couple posts above, I was using SoI and it was doing fine. Engaging is tough (I was taking 2 guardians) since one would easily aggro a dps, but it's just a matter of not using taunt to pull and save it for when the mob runs. Plus, as you can see, damage surely wasn't bad ^^ and self healing was insane (beat the DK tank by miles).
    I have no mop exp as it stands, is that resulting 70k from any particular mechanic? Or is our damage really that high now?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by 4KhazModan View Post
    I have no mop exp as it stands, is that resulting 70k from any particular mechanic? Or is our damage really that high now?
    Well, it was on 2 bosses. We got very high cleave atm + vengeance.

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