Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #21
    Pit Lord barackopala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Chile, Viña del Mar
    Posts
    2,428
    And i would care about WoW design because of...?

  2. #22
    Bloodsail Admiral Riavan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,032
    Still have tanks in melee in dungeons. Groups without a war/guardian to aoe stuff around are far worse.

  3. #23
    GW2 came alone and I went through the beta's and loved it. Have been playing since the 3 day head start and have been loving it. However, now I find myself missing a crucial piece that I like in my games. That is reputation.

    I always enjoyed getting that tell: "Do you want to tank/heal for us? You are a good at what you do" or something along those lines.
    I miss that growing reputation of: If you want something done right in an important roll here are some people you can count on.

    I know there are strategies in the dungeons and that is all well and good but they always seem to revolve around keeping yourself alive and "hoping" the others do as well.
    Let me get this straight, because that's the way I'm reading it. You felt important (or having a good reputation) to some strangers because the game forced other players to care about tank/healers. Now that they are not forced to group a specific class, you suddenly don't feel important.

    While the holy trinity is a matter of taste, the only thing I'm getting from this is that the previous people just were kind of hypocrits or asslicking. Maybe you were a good tank, I will give you that, but if tanks were not mandatory do you really feel they would still want you to come over (granted they are not your close friends) ?

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by rezoacken View Post
    Let me get this straight, because that's the way I'm reading it. You felt important (or having a good reputation) to some strangers because the game forced other players to care about tank/healers. Now that they are not forced to group a specific class, you suddenly don't feel important.

    While the holy trinity is a matter of taste, the only thing I'm getting from this is that the previous people just were kind of hypocrits or asslicking. Maybe you were a good tank, I will give you that, but if tanks were not mandatory do you really feel they would still want you to come over (granted they are not your close friends) ?
    Enjoy being just a number in a game where a bot could take your place and nobody would notice.
    There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who dont.

  5. #25
    Herald of the Titans Porimlys's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    The Bebop
    Posts
    2,745
    Quote Originally Posted by Infinitus View Post
    Enjoy being just a number in a game where a bot could take your place and nobody would notice.
    Okay, I will!

    Makes more sense than hating it, right?
    Last edited by Porimlys; 2012-10-06 at 09:12 AM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Roll a guardian, dress for heal power / toughness / vitality, and you can actually be quite the difference maker in a way that may satisfy you.
    this is a good idea if you like the idea of playing a support class, guardian's have plenty of heals, buffs, debuffs, shields, snares to help teammates. I run a sword/torch scepter/shield toughness spec for WvW and I love rushing in to drop reflective shields, give them an ageis of protection and basically hit one button that gives everyone 8 buffs. Stand out of range and use my healing tomb ult that does very nice AoE heals.

    Sometime I'll run with a staff for areas where their is fighting around bridges and drop barriers to cut people of or trap them in range. Its surprisingly fun not just to DPS all the time.
    "you can't be serious!!" - yes actually I am.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Infinitus View Post
    Enjoy being just a number in a game where a bot could take your place and nobody would notice.
    I really had to laugh there. You do realise that a bot would do a MUCH better job tanking/healing/dpsing in a classical trinity game than a 'real player', do you? Because a bot will follow an optimal strategy and never make a mistake. The way the classical games (take WoW, for example) work is that all actions performed by players are very repetitive and monotone and the challenge is to synchronise your monotone actions with actions of other players without a mistake. On high difficulty raid, a single mistake by the tank or healer will cause a wipe. That is all there is to classical 'hardcore' PVE. Obviously, there is also the strategy phase, where the raid composition and overall tactics are decided, but the execution itself can be easily done by a machine. In a more chaotic environment of GW2 dungeons, there are simply more options/possibilities, so I doubt a bot would be much of a success there.

  8. #28
    Over 9000! Snowraven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    European Union
    Posts
    9,310
    Quote Originally Posted by Infinitus View Post
    I'd rather take a rude but good player along than a nice but bad player since I'm only going to grup up for a while so it doesn't matter. I also don't feel like doing a personality test every time I want to team up with somebody.
    That's the whole point, you don't do it every time, you run with random people, get to know the ones that are nice, and take those on future runs.

    If you'd rather take jerks, suit yourself, I'd rather have nice people even if I'm slower to clear content or something and help them get better.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-06 at 04:19 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinitus View Post
    Enjoy being just a number in a game where a bot could take your place and nobody would notice.
    Nobody would notice if you don't cultivate relations. If you're a good tank/healer or whatever but a jerk then you know that you wouldn't get taken in a group when good tanks/healers are no longer needed. And it's true, if this is right, a bot could indeed take your place and nobody would notice as nobody liked you in first place anyway. However, if you're nice and cultivate relations, you'd get taken.

  9. #29
    tried a support spec? im playing mainly a support mesmer and i love it.
    reflecting bullets, sucking enemys away, interrupting spells, dispells, boons, a haste bubble, placing phantasm in a way that everybody gets a regen boon, using blink to be there where somebody needs to rally, etc.

    i also play a support elementalist and a support engi in sPvP and people rarely die if i can support them.

  10. #30
    I always play tank classes in MMO too. So I chose a guardian here and all I can say is I love it. Put on a mace and a shield and go for valor/honor and also chose shouts as your utility skills...you cannot imagine how much difference you can make in a group. Here you can actively tank for your group. People will want to stay near you, to stay under your shield, to get your shout boons, your symbols, your heals. They feel more comfortable when they are near you and you can protect them by being tank and healer at the same time.

    Trust me, in other games you just sit there to throw taunts and use your defensive cooldowns while people pull right and there because it is cool. You rely on your healer to keep you on your feet. But not in GW2. In gw2 you as a guardian you are in charge..you go there first, raise your shield, keep your position, and people will come to you.You are a pylon of protection and life I cannot explain it better but never before in a game I felt my character value so much.
    The trick of selling a PvP-MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  11. #31
    Pandaren Monk Klutzington's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    'Murrica, of course.
    Posts
    1,920
    Although the OP is completely innocent, I GUARANTEE at least one person will say "special snowflake" in this thread.

  12. #32
    While I don't miss the trinity per say I see where the Op is coming from.

    Compared to say WoW, there's only a very limited number of things a player can do to assist or save a fellow group-mate who got himself into trouble. A lot of this also requires the players to know how these abilities work, making it hard to carry bads.

    I can't count how many times people continue throwing pebbles at a boss in downed state, even after I drop Shadow Refuge on them. A lot of people don't get how Smoke Screen works etc. Being effective in GW2 is just as reliant on others as it is on you. That's why it may feel unsatisfying at times. I still think this game needs a little more CC as that's something that really translates into skill.

  13. #33
    Roll a guardian, dress for heal power / toughness / vitality, and you can actually be quite the difference maker in a way that may satisfy you.
    Another decent one for that role is a support warrior. A warrior specced into healing shouts with some Cleric gear and using a Hammer/Mace+Mace weapon set or similar can put out a huge amount of group healing, control, condition removal and minor group buffing potential.

  14. #34
    Scarab Lord slime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    USA PA
    Posts
    4,095
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_ View Post
    Funny detail on trinity: WoW's challenge mode gold runners are running mostly without healers in one tank four dps comps. Just with lots of damage massive amounts of threat control tricks like army of the dead.
    Wow, healers in wow must love that. And we all know none of them are complaining about it - because people that play wow just don't complain.
    o,O

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by slime View Post
    Wow, healers in wow must love that. And we all know none of them are complaining about it - because people that play wow just don't complain.
    o,O
    It's actually not a totally new concept, people have ran with 1 tank + 4 DPS setups for quick 5-man farming for a while, you just need a group that's really on the ball. If things looked a little too hairy we'd have someone (usually me, meh!) run a DPS spec that could also heal in a pinch (Moonkin, Ele Shamy, etc)

  16. #36
    I still like that theres no trinity. People watch out for themselves and its more of a proactive style where you try to prevent as much damage as possible rather than constantly healing through your mistakes. While it was sometimes fun to just mindlessly plow through dungeons in WoW, the lack of true dedicated healers is something I like in dungeons and even moreso in PvP.

  17. #37
    Warchief Saluin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    The Slaughtered Lamb
    Posts
    2,196
    Quote Originally Posted by barackopala View Post
    And i would care about WoW design because of...?
    Because these games are MMO's
    This is a wow site.

    Comparisons will be made.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Dollirllan View Post
    I totally disagree with people who say "you are number XXXX player in this game" or "people will get bored with GW2 due to no trinity" ect ect. folks, realize one simple thing - GW2 is a game that allows you to be fully responsible for yourself, allows you to take dmg on you, heal a bit, and dps at the same time.
    Jack of all trades, master of none.
    As someone stated - you lose your unique feel, because you're just the same as every single player out there. And this "but i'm more skilled" is barely noticeable in gw2, since, you know, you don't have a role to excel at.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Strah View Post
    Jack of all trades, master of none.
    As someone stated - you lose your unique feel, because you're just the same as every single player out there. And this "but i'm more skilled" is barely noticeable in gw2, since, you know, you don't have a role to excel at.
    1. There are professions (classes), which pretty much have a very unique feel to them

    2. The "I'm more skilled" makes a HUGE difference in GW2. A single player in GW2 can save a group from wipe, if he is skilled (this won't happen in a trinity game, because there the strength of the group is the weakest link). Instead of trying to excel at a particular role, why won't you try to excel at the game instead?

  20. #40
    Herald of the Titans Ravenblade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Germany - Thuringia
    Posts
    2,703
    Quote Originally Posted by Strah View Post
    Jack of all trades, master of none.
    As someone stated - you lose your unique feel, because you're just the same as every single player out there. And this "but i'm more skilled" is barely noticeable in gw2, since, you know, you don't have a role to excel at.
    If you're strictly judging on role basis only then yes, you will never excel at any but if you're judging on class basis then you should easily see who plays his class better or not especially if you are in a selective group like a guild. Remember the game is still fairly young, there are not many people who have mastered the game yet and a lot people have no clue or reference about how certain classes play out.

    It's easier to evaluate performance on a per-role basis because the effects of failing are much more obvious, so it's a rather binary system, easier to distinguish like black and white.

    In WoW however a healer or tank could perform well above the average and still get the blame because his group of randoms said so, even if things went all smoothly you could be forgotten especially since the dawn of LFD. You above par performance is not automatically acknowledged and more often than not seen as expected thing to do. You'd only make a difference if there was a close call somewhere. In my experience people are more eager to slam than to praise especially if it's all connected with the infamous blame game.
    And that's just not even talking about DPS - the least acknowledged role there is.
    WoW: Crowcloak (Druid) @ Sylvanas EU (retired) | GW2: Siqqa (Asura Engineer) @ Piken Square EU
    If builders built houses the way programmers built programs,the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization. - Weinberg's 2nd law

    My Deus Ex:HR soundtrack mixes
    [FLAC version (3.5 GB)]

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •