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  1. #1

    Jewelcrafting STILL the worst profession.

    I posted this on the Battle.net forums, but knowing the responses I'm likely to get down there, I decided to start a discussion of the same topic here.

    After spending all of DS as the undisputed inferior profession in terms of stat bonuses, JC is once again the runt of the pack going into MoP.

    Because secondary stat budgets are now doubled on gems, this changes the way we slot our sockets. If we have a secondary stat that is weighted more than half of our primary stat, we are now supposed to gem pure secondary stats in blue/yellows, and hybrids in reds.

    The JC exclusive gems were not given double budget for secondary stats, so we're still stuck with pure reds for JC gems.

    However, this 320 extra stats from JC gems requires a red gem in a red socket. This would have been fine if we were gemming pure reds in red sockets anyways, but now we have a better option in the form of hybrid gems with double secondary stats. To obtain the JC stat bonus, we forgo the superior hydrid gem in favor of pure reds.

    Because of this, the relative gain of using JC gems is LESS than 320 stats.

    To fix this, the best option would be to provide hydrid JC gems that provide extra primary stats, such as +240 (80+160) strength and + 160 haste. This allows us to gem hybrid serpent's eyes while still obtaining the same +320 stat bonus standard on professions.

    EDIT: Since apparently gathering professions are somehow still being taken into account when determining BiS professions, I will now say this explicitly: I am ignoring the gathering professions because their PvE bonuses are and have always been completely negligible.

    Also, I'd like to point out that this argument only applies if you play a spec with a secondary stat weighted at more than half of your primary stat, but less than your primary stat.
    Last edited by Felixphaeton; 2012-10-07 at 02:09 AM.

  2. #2
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    As far as I'm aware, there are no epic gems available yet, and won't be for some time. I imagine when those do come out, JC will have some greater option. I think having Orange/Green/Purple Serpents Eye gems would make JC TOO powerful, compared to other professions right now.

  3. #3
    At least Serpent's Eyes are easier to get, but yeah...when it comes to secondary stats, BS beats us by a country mile simply because 2x blue secondary gems is 640 of that stat versus the static extra 320 that JC gets from using, say, Fractured Serpent's Eyes.

    It's an easy fix really, Blizzard just needs to make the Yellow jeweler gems worth +640 to that stat instead of +480.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    As far as I'm aware, there are no epic gems available yet, and won't be for some time. I imagine when those do come out, JC will have some greater option.
    This is what people assumed would happen in Cataclysm, and it did not. That is what he is referring to with "after spending all of DS as the undisputed inferior profession".

    @OP, I see no issue with your proposed solution, but I'd expect them to go more the route of doubling both the primary and secondary stat of a hybrid gem, instead of just adding the value of a pure gem onto a hybrid gem (aka 160str/320haste instead of 240str/160 haste) if they were to make any change at all. And since you mention that hybrid gems are a "better option", I don't know why you didn't suggest this as, following in that logic, it would be better for you. Keep in mind that not everyone values 2 of a secondary stat > 1 of a primary stat - I know that hunters, in particular, do not. Not that I am saying that is a reasonable excuse to not include hybrid JC gems.

    Anyway, I suspect the chance of them making either of these changes is very low. If it really bothers you so much, your best option is to just pick up a different profession.

  5. #5
    Yep but think of all the gold you will make. If yopu wnat the best raiding professions then choose them. JC is already v powerful when it comes to gold. Btw the gathering professions were the undisputed inferior professions in terms of raiding stats.
    Last edited by 999tigger; 2012-10-05 at 10:06 PM.

  6. #6
    Blizzard's deliberate idiocy is astounding sometimes. This isn't simply overlooked; someone looked at the stat budgets for gems and decided to make secondary stat serpent eye's inferior.

    Quote Originally Posted by 999tigger View Post
    Yep but think of all the gold you will make. If yopu wnat the best raiding professions then choose them. JC is already v powerful when it comes to gold. Btw the gathering professions were the undisputed inferior professions in terms of raiding stats.
    Obviously he's excluding those.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Magpai View Post
    Blizzard's deliberate idiocy is astounding sometimes. This isn't simply overlooked; someone looked at the stat budgets for gems and decided to make secondary stat serpent eye's inferior.

    Obviously he's excluding those.
    They still take up a profession slot. What you mean is obviously he's excluding those because they are inconvenient to his QQ. Choose it don't choose. I have no problem it being inferior becayse of how strong it is for making money. You cant expect it to be the best at everything.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Farabee View Post
    At least Serpent's Eyes are easier to get, but yeah...when it comes to secondary stats, BS beats us by a country mile simply because 2x blue secondary gems is 640 of that stat versus the static extra 320 that JC gets from using, say, Fractured Serpent's Eyes.

    It's an easy fix really, Blizzard just needs to make the Yellow jeweler gems worth +640 to that stat instead of +480.
    I guess it dependso n your class/spec then whether JC is not as good as other profs. For specs that value primary stats over 2x secondary JC will be just as good as any other 320 static bonus. I didn't even look at the stats on any other color serpent eyes since agi is still superior for hunters.

  9. #9
    Im fine with JC to be honest. Its a good boost of stats and I am also ok with professions not all being equal in terms of raiding or money making. I like having folks pick professions not just for min/max in pve. Would be great to further expand on the races again as well in this same manner.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by 999tigger View Post
    They still take up a profession slot. What you mean is obviously he's excluding those because they are inconvenient to his QQ. Choose it don't choose. I have no problem it being inferior becayse of how strong it is for making money. You cant expect it to be the best at everything.
    He's excluding them because it's obvious to anyone with half a brain that they don't even compare to the production professions. It's like he's saying "asparagus is my least favorite food", and you come back with "Oh yeah? Well what about broiled dog shit?"

    And that's great that you don't have a problem with a profession being inferior, but all that means in the context in this thread is that you have no relevant input.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-06 at 12:25 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullhurley View Post
    Im fine with JC to be honest. Its a good boost of stats and I am also ok with professions not all being equal in terms of raiding or money making. I like having folks pick professions not just for min/max in pve. Would be great to further expand on the races again as well in this same manner.
    If you don't want people to pick professions to min/max, it would make more sense to want them to be equal so that min/maxxing wouldn't be a factor.

  11. #11
    Everyone needs gems, therefore JC is one of the best professions in my book. lol

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by sTyLnK View Post
    Everyone needs gems, therefore JC is one of the best professions in my book. lol
    We're not talking money. We're talking balance.

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felixphaeton View Post
    I posted this on the Battle.net forums, but knowing the responses I'm likely to get down there, I decided to start a discussion of the same topic here.

    After spending all of DS as the undisputed inferior profession in terms of stat bonuses, JC is once again the runt of the pack going into MoP.

    Because secondary stat budgets are now doubled on gems, this changes the way we slot our sockets. If we have a secondary stat that is weighted more than half of our primary stat, we are now supposed to gem pure secondary stats in blue/yellows, and hybrids in reds.

    The JC exclusive gems were not given double budget for secondary stats, so we're still stuck with pure reds for JC gems.

    However, this 320 extra stats from JC gems requires a red gem in a red socket. This would have been fine if we were gemming pure reds in ret sockets anyways, but now we have a better option in the form of hybrid gems with double secondary stats. To obtain the JC stat bonus, we forgo the superior hydrid gem in favor of pure reds.

    Because of this, the relative gain of using JC gems is LESS than 320 stats.

    To fix this, the best option would be to provide hydrid JC gems that provide extra primary stats, such as +240 (80+160) strength and + 160 haste. This allows us to gem hybrid serpent's eyes while still obtaining the same +320 stat bonus standard on professions.
    Look at the bonuses you get for Skinning, Herbalism or Mining, then come back and say you get the worst bonuses... you are by FAR NOT the worst when it comes to bonuses, infact... a JC/BS combo thumps the hell out of anyone else... ponder that.

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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    Look at the bonuses you get for Skinning, Herbalism or Mining, then come back and say you get the worst bonuses... you are by FAR NOT the worst when it comes to bonuses, infact... a JC/BS combo thumps the hell out of anyone else... ponder that.
    Those don't count. They're considered lesser gathering professions and always have been.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    Look at the bonuses you get for Skinning, Herbalism or Mining, then come back and say you get the worst bonuses... you are by FAR NOT the worst when it comes to bonuses, infact... a JC/BS combo thumps the hell out of anyone else... ponder that.
    Of course I disregarded the gathering professions, as explained by others in this thread already. Also, JC and BS has absolutely no synergy.

    Edit: Ninja'd

  16. #16
    Give me resilence gems from serpent's eyes is all I have to say
    ...Made it through 9 years of wow...

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Felixphaeton View Post
    Of course I disregarded the gathering professions, as explained by others in this thread already. Also, JC and BS has absolutely no synergy.

    Edit: Ninja'd

    Explain how JC and BS do not have synergy. The 2 extra sockets plus Serpent Eyes allow for the most customizable experience of all profession choices.

  18. #18
    My heart bleeds for the single most lucrative profession in WoW having suboptimal stat bonuses.

    Spoilers: no it doesn't.

  19. #19
    Rather half a brain than no brain if you want to get into the insults.

    he just said profession, perhaps he ought to write what he means. las time I looked the gathering professions are stull professions with bonuses. He excluded them becayse he wnated to QQ and be a drama queen. A profession take up one slot out if the two available. Professions offer money making opportunities as well as raiding bonuses or a mixture of both. Everyone is free to choose which ones they want that suits their playstyle. If you want raiding bonuses, then go for the best.

    Gathering professions are always some of the best to have at the start of any expansion. Being able to make gold can have a direct effect on you being able to afford to gem, enchant and pay for raiding activities whilst things are stukk expensive. This can far outweigh any small differential in profession bonuses. Wow has changed these days, so many people have a number of professions to choose from. It does seem ridiculous that you should qq just because it isnt the best at making gold and raiding. Why bother whining so much and instead just pick the porfession at the top if the bonus matters that much? They dont make a bad or average player good.
    Last edited by 999tigger; 2012-10-06 at 09:33 AM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Zankoku View Post
    Explain how JC and BS do not have synergy. The 2 extra sockets plus Serpent Eyes allow for the most customizable experience of all profession choices.
    You only get 3 serpent's eyes, regardless of your second profession. The difference between a JC with no secondary profession (call it a JC/--) and a JC/BS is two non-serpent gems. The difference between a BS/-- and a --/-- is two non-serpent gems.

    Put another way: I don't know the actual numbers, but JC gives you X extra stats in your stat of choice while BS gives you Y extra stats in the stat of your choice, and JC/BS combo gives you X + Y. There's no synergy, they add together the same way any other two professions do.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-06 at 04:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by 999tigger View Post
    Rather half a brain than no brain if you want to get into the insults.

    he just said profession, perhaps he ought to write what he means. las time I looked the gathering professions are stull professions with bonuses. He excluded them becayse he wnated to QQ and be a drama queen. A profession take up one slot out if the two available. Professions offer money making opportunities as well as raiding bonuses or a mixture of both. Everyone is free to choose which ones they want that suits their playstyle. If you want raiding bonuses, then go for the best.

    Gathering professions are always some of the best to have at the start of any expansion. Being able to make gold can have a direct effect on you being able to afford to gem, enchant and pay for raiding activities whilst things are stukk expensive. This can far outweigh any small differential in profession bonuses. Wow has changed these days, so many people have a number of professions to choose from. It does seem ridiculous that you should qq just because it isnt the best at making gold and raiding. Why bother whining so much and instead just pick the porfession at the top if the bonus matters that much? They dont make a bad or average player good.
    Ok now you're arguing about semantics to make what you were hoping was a smartass point but really just showed that you didn't understand he was comparing only PVE-worthwhile professions, and also to argue about money which is irrelevant in this thread.

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