1. #1

    How to use HotW as Balance properly

    Hey guys!

    Currently I'm progressing on Elegon 25m and some Moonkins say that they got insane DPS numbers with HotW in P1 and the execute phase (some speak of 250k DPS!). Well, of course those numbers may be over the top, but since the theorycrafting is discussing whether HotW is better then NG if used correctly I'm getting kind of curious and want to try it out... I'm one of the top tier DPS in my raid right now and I'm doing good DPS already, but since every raid dps increase is beneficial it can't hurt to try to improve it even more...I'd be pretty satisfied with around 180k DPS in P1

    So, how are you using HotW?

    Weaponswitch?
    Int/Agi pot?
    Using any other CDs like CA or Incarnation?
    Is Haste good for cats (Troll racial!)?
    Use int on use effects (engineer, on use trinket)?
    Dot and redot while peeling Energy?
    Is the rotation Rake -> Mangle until 5 CP -> FB with 50 energy and repeat?
    Should I use some glyphs for feral? (since balance has almost none important glyphs for DPS anyway..)

    And how much DPS do you do and the dummy and how much in the raid during the HotW phase?

    Any help is very appreciated!

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberowl View Post
    Hey guys!

    Currently I'm progressing on Elegon 25m and some Moonkins say that they got insane DPS numbers with HotW in P1 and the execute phase (some speak of 250k DPS!). Well, of course those numbers may be over the top, but since the theorycrafting is discussing whether HotW is better then NG if used correctly I'm getting kind of curious and want to try it out... I'm one of the top tier DPS in my raid right now and I'm doing good DPS already, but since every raid dps increase is beneficial it can't hurt to try to improve it even more...I'd be pretty satisfied with around 180k DPS in P1

    So, how are you using HotW?

    Weaponswitch?
    Int/Agi pot?
    Using any other CDs like CA or Incarnation?
    Is Haste good for cats (Troll racial!)?
    Use int on use effects (engineer, on use trinket)?
    Dot and redot while peeling Energy?
    Is the rotation Rake -> Mangle until 5 CP -> FB with 50 energy and repeat?
    Should I use some glyphs for feral? (since balance has almost none important glyphs for DPS anyway..)

    And how much DPS do you do and the dummy and how much in the raid during the HotW phase?

    Any help is very appreciated!
    I tried using HotW as a boomkin going into cat form. I found the energy regen was just appalling and I did less dps than with a normal boomkin rotation.

    Maybe with a haste heavy reforge things would be better.

  3. #3
    Yeah I don't understand how a moonkin pulls dps with HotW.

    NV seems far, FAR better. And DoC, soon.

    If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars.
    Tenkuu Seratonin
    Annegwish

  4. #4
    It's not a question whether NV or HotW is better at the end of the day, it's a question how high I'm able to burst.

    If I do those 180k DPS in the beginning of the fight our raid will push P2 faster...I will also have Incarnation and CA left for P2 without having any loss in the DPS in P1. Once the execute phase begins I will have HotW again etc...

    I'm doing 60k DPS as a cat with HotW and nothing else on the dummy. If you take into consideration weaponswitch and other on use effects + the 50% increased damage buff from the Boss I could see how to do about 180k DPS during those 45 seconds and I would have CA & Incarnation left for P2.

    So please answer related to the topic

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberowl View Post
    It's not a question whether NV or HotW is better at the end of the day, it's a question how high I'm able to burst.

    If I do those 180k DPS in the beginning of the fight our raid will push P2 faster...I will also have Incarnation and CA left for P2 without having any loss in the DPS in P1. Once the execute phase begins I will have HotW again etc...

    I'm doing 60k DPS as a cat with HotW and nothing else on the dummy. If you take into consideration weaponswitch and other on use effects + the 50% increased damage buff from the Boss I could see how to do about 180k DPS during those 45 seconds and I would have CA & Incarnation left for P2.

    So please answer related to the topic
    I pretty much told you, if you go with a Boomkin reforge (crit priority), you will have energy problems and will not do more DPS in cat form. The only situation that I have seen where HoTW+cat form would be better is for AOE. Swipe in my gear hits for 45-50k non crit.

    If someone else was able to pull more DPS in cat form using heart of the wild, I would like to hear what they were doing. Keeping rake up and ferocious biting at 50 energy with mangle was not very effective.

    You can't use incarnation, it's only effective in an eclipse state while in boomkin form and only affects nature or arcane damage.

    You should already be able to pull 180k dps in the opener with a standard Nature's Vigil build. Several attempts before my guild killed Elegon I was able to maintain 200k+ dps for 30 seconds or so. I found having CDs for P2 wasn't critical, use other raid cds like stormlash totem and banners at that point in the fight. You can also preset up mushrooms to hit nearly all of the orbs.
    Last edited by earthwormjim; 2012-10-06 at 02:48 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by earthwormjim View Post
    If someone else was able to pull more DPS in cat form using heart of the wild, I would like to hear what they were doing. Keeping rake up and ferocious biting at 50 energy with mangle was not very effective.
    Rake, Mangle to 5, FB @ 50 energy and then switch into Moonkin to apply MF/SF, then back into cat intime to re-apply rake and restart the rotation on full energy.

    It's something being discussed at EJ and nobody has any proper numbers on it yet, but I think switching out to DoT in moonkin form has an edge over waiting for energy to pool back up.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/WoWDeliverance - Balance Druid 10man Raid Videos
    5/8 Heroic Dragon Soul pre-Nerf

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Gammonflaps View Post
    Rake, Mangle to 5, FB @ 50 energy and then switch into Moonkin to apply MF/SF, then back into cat intime to re-apply rake and restart the rotation on full energy.

    It's something being discussed at EJ and nobody has any proper numbers on it yet, but I think switching out to DoT in moonkin form has an edge over waiting for energy to pool back up.
    That would make sense. I'll have to try that out then, I did not enjoy sitting there waiting for energy.

    I do not see it being a replacement for the burst you get with Incarnation and CA, like Cyberowl was hoping for, but it could be higher dps than dps'ing in boomkin form with no CDs.
    Last edited by earthwormjim; 2012-10-06 at 03:01 PM.

  8. #8
    I think you need to be reforged to haste for this too. My energy regen as cat seems terrible :/ I can rake, mangle to 5 combo, bite, and then I'm out of energy. :/

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by oggyowl View Post
    I think you need to be reforged to haste for this too. My energy regen as cat seems terrible :/ I can rake, mangle to 5 combo, bite, and then I'm out of energy. :/
    Bad idea really. Energy regen scales very slowly in cat form. Reforged fully for haste for the Feral side of HotW (icluding hit and exp) I went from 10.3 energy per seconds to 10.8 energy a second. That gives you a whole 22 extra energy for the duration of HotW. Not even enough for another mangle. To make HotW really effective you will need to weapon swap (higher weapon damage) which would kill your Moonfire damage further.

  10. #10
    Or you swap to your feral staff when being in Cat form, switch back to your caster staff for applying MF + SF and then switch back

  11. #11
    That is a lot of wasted GCD's. I doubt the effort will be worth it.

  12. #12
    Weaponswitching doesn't trigger a GCD afaik and the dots are definately worth it since you wouldn't do anything more than white hits while peeling the energy.

  13. #13
    Form switching does.

  14. #14
    The 4 GCDs aren't enough to regenerate 100 Energy though.

  15. #15
    Weapon switching can be macrod to your shape shifts without additional gcd usage and you can have intellect weapon for moonfire and sunfire then agility for kitty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberowl View Post
    The 4 GCDs aren't enough to regenerate 100 Energy though.
    Its close, often you will have a starsurge proc to use too which is worth doing.

    There is no way this usage of hotw will match incarnation and alignment but its definitely better than plain balance rotation.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/WoWDeliverance - Balance Druid 10man Raid Videos
    5/8 Heroic Dragon Soul pre-Nerf

  16. #16
    I did my first MoP raid last night using HotW for Kitty DPS, refreshing oomkin DoTs in energy downtime.

    The playstyle felt great, even with weaponswaps macro'd into shapeshift - and I always timed HotW so that I could finish with a Tranquility during a heavy healing stage of a fight.

    I picked up WoL rank12 on Stone Guards by multi DoT'ing with rake rather than focussing on maximising FBs. I played quite poorly on our Feng kill, 52k DPS iirc but I'm pretty sure there's room to improve there - but no way I can match our Warlock at this stage of gear.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/WoWDeliverance - Balance Druid 10man Raid Videos
    5/8 Heroic Dragon Soul pre-Nerf

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