1. #1

    Will this setup work in Mogu'shan vaults? And what do you suggest?

    Hello.
    So recently i was promoted to raidleader for raiding group 2 in my guild.
    This group isn't complete yet but we have 8 people so far and i need to recruit 2 new guys.

    The setup i currently have is

    2x Protection warriors

    Holy paladin
    Holy priest

    Fire mage
    Balance druid
    Elemental shaman
    Combat rogue

    And that's it. So first off i was wondering how it's gonna be having 2 tanking warriors? I know that DK's currently have alot more dps than warriors and so on, but how does it stand with paladin and monk tanks?

    For the healers i've heard that a holy priest is the weakest healer of them all, but still useable if it's played right.

    For the dps we only have 1 melee. However i think that i'm gonna stick with one melee for now since it seems to me that most fights in mogu'shan favors Ranged. (As always =) ).

    So now comes the recruiting. I need a healer and a dps.
    For the healer spot i'd like to fill it with a Druid, Monk or yet another Paladin.
    For the dps spot i'm thinking of getting a hunter for the Physical vurnerability debuff or a warlock.

    What do you guys suggest that i do? And how does the current setup look for Mogu'shan ?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Depends on what you are aiming for.

    Do you want to do hardmodes before major nerfs or do you want to settle with normals? Do you want to have exactly ten players in your group so everyone can play at all times or are you willing to bench one or two for more variability in raidcomps and attendance?

    Anyway, you need to fill those two spots first. A hunter comes in handy at all times since he can provide a lot of buffs (incl. phys. vuln. which you mentioned. Your rogue and tanks would miss out on a lot of dps without it) and is able to do goofy bonus stuff like tanking adds at will of the emperor.

    As for the healer you have many options. A druid has a lot of throughput but no real raid-cooldowns, a shaman has some awesome CDs (spirit link is such a great spell..., manatide helps the rest of the healers immensely). I wouldn't go for another Paladin since they share loot and that's always an issue in 10man. I have no idea what a mistweaver monk is capable of since we don't have one in our raid... maybe someone else can help you with that =)

    Two prot warriors are fine for normals, for heroics it's almost always better to have more than one option. But since Heroic MV doesn't open until next week we can't tell yet how much of an issue it is for the current content.


    Hope i could help at least somehow, sorry for my english, i'm not a native speaker. Good luck with your raidgroup though.

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral Arian21's Avatar
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    Look ... since my raid killed 4 bosses first day and we are currently 300 ranked in the world I can tell a few things we did wrong and went slower than expected .
    First of all ... don't take a priest of any spec . They are atm the worst healers in terms of mana regen and throughput . Keep the 1 paladin and take 1 shaman and anything between a monk or a druid for the 3rd slot . Now you would ask why shaman ... cause he's the best tank healer out there with the lowest mana costs out there and has the best aoe passive heals (healing stream + healing tide totems) . Also have your paladin spec into eternal flame and Light's Hammer and Shamans ALL spec into Healing Tide . Healing in MV is sooooo hard .

    On the tank side of things . As proven from our runs skilled warrior tanks take the less damage in the game . If you wanna go for a tank that deals damage go ahead and take monk that does more damage than 80% of our dps members and then have trouble healing him .

    In dps terms it's totally up to you but I wouldn't take any melee at all . First boss too much movement, 2nd boss too much getting off the boss, 3rd boss not so much movement, 4th boss too much movement . It all hurts melee dps . ranged are all better in this raid .

    If you don't believe me I can link you the armory.
    I'm here for more questions if you wanna ask .
    I come across a wild river, that wonders through the trees.
    I stare into its running waters and fall unto my knees.
    In resignation to the forest, that's held me for so long.
    I close my eyes and drift away into nature's evensong.

  4. #4
    About the tanks dps. I was just wondering cause i was running a pug this thursday. And on the second boss everything went fine until phase 3 where we melted down. We got him to 7%, looking at the meters i saw that our DK tank had way more damage than me (Warrior tank). And thus i was thinking if we were 2 warrior tanks it would be alot less damage overall there.

    Coupled with the fact that i might have to run with a priest healer which according to you is terrible atm, i'm worried about how it's going to go there.

    About the dps, i've always felt like most boss fights, almost everywhere favors ranged. However running with 0 melee dpsers, will that never be an issue?
    Maybe not in Mogu'shan. But if i run with 0 melee dpsers in Mogu, then i wont have a geared Melee dps for the next raids and in a future raid melee dps might be on par or even favored in a boss fight. That's why i personally think having atleast one melee dps is going to help in the long run.

  5. #5
    Bloodsail Admiral Arian21's Avatar
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    I have new for you Sanktas
    Priest do suck balls . Paladin healers are op . Pulled 54k hps at Elegon Kill . Our monk tank did more damage than our hunter and he stopped at 89k dps ... so tank dps is needed as I see . Warrior tank dps is LOW . Elegon showed us that less melee is better . We killed it with a melee swapped for a hunter .
    You can still keep 1 or MAX 2 melee to have them for fights like garajal and spirit kings but they will be less effective than ranged in every fight ... EXCEPT... Elegon final phase where you have to BURST HIS ASS OFF . Ranged can't burst like warrior-dk-rogue-monk . Our fury warrior spammed 500k executes ... I kept him alive in the cost of the others but we killed it .

    Any other questions ?
    I come across a wild river, that wonders through the trees.
    I stare into its running waters and fall unto my knees.
    In resignation to the forest, that's held me for so long.
    I close my eyes and drift away into nature's evensong.

  6. #6
    We're currently stuck at Gara'jal since he's a dps check. Our 2 warrior tanks is very very low as you said. Do you think i'd need to switch out one or both warrior tanks for some other class tank in order to meet the dps?

    And is warrior tanks "sort-of" useless atm? Since they got so low damage compared to other thanks?

  7. #7
    Speaking as a prot pally, with SoI, Glyph of Battle HEaler and Light's Hammer we provide tons of extra raid healing. LH is extremely effective stacked with other raid cooldowns during big-AOE phases like Draw Flame on Feng. I'm usually doing at least 15k HPS per fight. Our damage is a little lower, so our DPS have had to step it up in absentia of what I can bring DPS-wise compared to pretty much every other tank, but on the other hand we've been able to 2-heal most fights with the exception of Feng due to the ridiculous amount of extra self and raid healing I can bring to the table. Our off-tank is a druid, so he kind of makes up for the damage difference although he gets pile-driven by bosses compared to me.

    I can't speak on warrior tank damage but it's got to be higher than mine. I'm 100% OK with it considering the amazing amount of healing I do. I love it.

    Also, we 2-healed Gara'jal easily once our healers worked out Spirit World rotations and communicated when the one with Voodoo Doll was OOM.

  8. #8
    Field Marshal Neji's Avatar
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    Don't be afraid of taking more melee. We did the entire place with a retribution paladin, rogue and enhancement shaman as our melee. We took a mage, shadow priest and warlock as our ranged DPS. Nothing in there requires 3 healers for normal mode. This will probably change come heroics. So that being said, bring competent people - not just ranged DPS to fit what you think is the preferred class makeup.

    Over specialize and you breed in weakness.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Neji View Post
    Don't be afraid of taking more melee. We did the entire place with a retribution paladin, rogue and enhancement shaman as our melee. We took a mage, shadow priest and warlock as our ranged DPS. Nothing in there requires 3 healers for normal mode. This will probably change come heroics. So that being said, bring competent people - not just ranged DPS to fit what you think is the preferred class makeup.

    Over specialize and you breed in weakness.
    You are very wise. Very wise indeed.
    I believe i shall try it out by replacing our hunter for a retri paladin then, the hunter isn't that great on dps and the retri paladin is fully geared with crafted epics. I was just too "afraid" of bringing melee since from what i've heard (until now) every fight is favorable to ranged, this is what i've seen aswell since there's alot of running involved.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanktas View Post
    You are very wise. Very wise indeed.
    I believe i shall try it out by replacing our hunter for a retri paladin then, the hunter isn't that great on dps and the retri paladin is fully geared with crafted epics. I was just too "afraid" of bringing melee since from what i've heard (until now) every fight is favorable to ranged, this is what i've seen aswell since there's alot of running involved.
    Every fight of every tier is almost always favoring range.

    Melee had a hidden buff in DS to account for it, and I feel this hidden buff (perhaps its just the bosses having less armor) has carried over. That or our melee are exceptional.

    Especially on Will, where melee do 50% more boss damage.

    Smart melee > dumb range.

  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral Arian21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gande View Post
    Every fight of every tier is almost always favoring range.

    Melee had a hidden buff in DS to account for it, and I feel this hidden buff (perhaps its just the bosses having less armor) has carried over. That or our melee are exceptional.

    Especially on Will, where melee do 50% more boss damage.

    Smart melee > dumb range.
    in will of the emperor gas cloud gives melee 25% + damage ... so it's a bit in their favor . At the moment melee are struggling to keep up with ranged .
    I come across a wild river, that wonders through the trees.
    I stare into its running waters and fall unto my knees.
    In resignation to the forest, that's held me for so long.
    I close my eyes and drift away into nature's evensong.

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