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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by parkerlynne View Post
    You'd think none of you played in cata...
    I skipped Cata. I don't see how that makes it any less stupid. The gathering professions should provide the top level base materials. It severely devalues the profession if it doesn't.

  2. #22
    good thing I have like 3 or 4 transmute masters; too many alts have a hard time keeping track.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Mascotte View Post
    Buy ghost iron bars.
    Transmute ghost iron bars (get procs even if your transmute mastery)
    Transmute living steel.

    I fail to see your problem.
    This. Alchemists CAN make trillium bars.

  4. #24
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biged781 View Post
    I skipped Cata. I don't see how that makes it any less stupid. The gathering professions should provide the top level base materials. It severely devalues the profession if it doesn't.
    They do. You can't make Living Steel without Trillium Bars. And whether you're mining the Trillium directly or Transmuting Ghost Iron into Trillium, all those bars come from Mining.

    If you wanted crafting professions that were self-sufficient and independent, that hasn't been the design intent with WoW professions since, well, ever. You'll need to get mats via another profession or three. Or the Auction House. Either way.

    You're going to need to buy gems and enchants for the gear you're crafting, too. The entire system is designed so that one character has no chance whatsoever of being self-sufficient. Or even a main with an alt. If you've got a suite of alts, sure, but then you wouldn't have an issue with this in the first place, since you'd have an Alchemist alt who'd be running these transmutes for you.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Biged781 View Post
    I skipped Cata. I don't see how that makes it any less stupid. The gathering professions should provide the top level base materials. It severely devalues the profession if it doesn't.
    Except it doesn't devalue mining, you still need six stacks of ghost iron ore to make one living steel bar, or six trellium bars to make one living steel bar.
    If anything this adds more value, now the mining profession feeds: Blacksmithing, Jewelcrafting, Engineering, and Alchemy.

  6. #26
    You guys should learn what the auction house is. You buy your living steel, and then voila, you have your mats without the need for another profession.

    I know simple economics is hard for many players, but come on!

    Does McDonald's go out and raise cattle, then slaughter them on their own to make burgers? No, they buy their mats.

  7. #27
    I got a feeling Alc is gonna be a great money maker with 3 professions needing Living Steel and 1 profession making it. Time to roll an alcy!

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    They do. You can't make Living Steel without Trillium Bars. And whether you're mining the Trillium directly or Transmuting Ghost Iron into Trillium, all those bars come from Mining.

    If you wanted crafting professions that were self-sufficient and independent, that hasn't been the design intent with WoW professions since, well, ever. You'll need to get mats via another profession or three. Or the Auction House. Either way.

    You're going to need to buy gems and enchants for the gear you're crafting, too. The entire system is designed so that one character has no chance whatsoever of being self-sufficient. Or even a main with an alt. If you've got a suite of alts, sure, but then you wouldn't have an issue with this in the first place, since you'd have an Alchemist alt who'd be running these transmutes for you.
    I don't mind getting supplies i need from other professoins, i object to the thing i'm getting be the base material. Why do i even bother having mining if the bar i need completely comes from alchemy, and how many alchemists do you know have mining as their gathering profession?

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-05 at 07:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ablib View Post
    You guys should learn what the auction house is. You buy your living steel, and then voila, you have your mats without the need for another profession.

    I know simple economics is hard for many players, but come on!

    Does McDonald's go out and raise cattle, then slaughter them on their own to make burgers? No, they buy their mats.
    McDonalds has a much larger budget than some of us. Buying the living steel is going to make everything more expensive, not to mention the harmony we have to sink into the high level stuff, and at those prices, who's going to buy our armor?? nobody that's who. Alchemy ends up making a killing, my BS sits there and is good for two extra gem slots in my armor. thanks blizz.

  9. #29
    High Overlord Synyzta's Avatar
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    Nothing new though; Truegold was the same, and wasn't Titanium? (My memory isn't what it used to be ).

    If they really wanted to change it though, they could give it to mining, but add like, 5 of the Spirit of Harmony things for each bar, AND have a cooldown. I really don't see what the problem is though...

  10. #30
    I agree, it sucks. Thankfully I have an alchemist alt for such things.

  11. #31
    1) Farm 5 stacks of ghost iron ore*. If that takes you much over 15 minutes you are doing it wrong.

    2) Convert that to ore or bars and sell them on the AH.

    3) Buy living steel.

    Currently ore is going for about 240G/stack and living steel is just under 1000G on my server. This is so, so, so hard, I don't know how a player could ever do it. It's almost as if instead of coming here and whining, they could have gone out farming and gotten the living steel they needed.

    * I said 5 stacks because of the AH cut and to give you a bit of coverage but even if it's 6, it's the same.

  12. #32
    The Lightbringer vian's Avatar
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    welcome to what, 5 years ago?
    Quote Originally Posted by bizzy View Post
    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Synyzta View Post
    Nothing new though; Truegold was the same, and wasn't Titanium? (My memory isn't what it used to be ).

    If they really wanted to change it though, they could give it to mining, but add like, 5 of the Spirit of Harmony things for each bar, AND have a cooldown. I really don't see what the problem is though...
    That is a thought, maybe we will see miners get an option to smelt Living Steel with X mats and a mote of harmony.

  14. #34
    the reason they do this is it convinces you at some point to level another toon and profession up

    means you're playing longer

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Sivick View Post
    McDonalds has a much larger budget than some of us. Buying the living steel is going to make everything more expensive, not to mention the harmony we have to sink into the high level stuff, and at those prices, who's going to buy our armor?? nobody that's who. Alchemy ends up making a killing, my BS sits there and is good for two extra gem slots in my armor. thanks blizz.

    The concept still works even if you have a small budget. It's called small business.

    If the mats cost more than the living steel (and on my realm the mats are more expensive), then you sell the mats, and with your profit buy living steel. Right now Blacksmiths should be making a good return on the belt buckles. For the past week, I've been buying living steel for about 1k each, and selling the belt buckle for 2k to 2.5k. That's 1500 free gold for every living steel I buy off the AH, and I couldn't have done it without my blacksmith.

    The problem here isn't that living steel comes from Alchemy, the problem is that some people just aren't very good at making gold, or have a grasp of simple economics. And when you really think about it, why should people? It's only a video game!
    Last edited by ablib; 2012-10-06 at 12:43 AM.

  16. #36
    Brewmaster Nigeldruid's Avatar
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    Saw one being sold for 450g on my server today. Can't be that bad anymore.
    Nothing worth having comes easy. That's why hard content is worth doing, and easy content is a waste of time.

  17. #37
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sivick View Post
    I don't mind getting supplies i need from other professoins, i object to the thing i'm getting be the base material. Why do i even bother having mining if the bar i need completely comes from alchemy, and how many alchemists do you know have mining as their gathering profession?
    Again, it is NOT a base material. It's an intermediary material. Like Truegold. You need base materials X to make intermediary material Y which is used to craft end product Z.

    And again; the profession system is deliberately set up to be unfriendly to single characters. It promotes auction house/trading activity. Yes, not many Alchemists are also Miners. This means they're playing alts, or buying stuff from someone else. This is all good for the economy.

    McDonalds has a much larger budget than some of us. Buying the living steel is going to make everything more expensive, not to mention the harmony we have to sink into the high level stuff, and at those prices, who's going to buy our armor?? nobody that's who. Alchemy ends up making a killing, my BS sits there and is good for two extra gem slots in my armor. thanks blizz.
    I think you seriously underestimate the amount of money most people have, and overestimate the amount they're willing to pay. I entered WotLK with something like 8k to my name. In Cata, a little over 30k. For MoP, I had roughly 85k. And I am not a big moneymaker. I farm a little here or there, but most of my stuff is roughly self-maintaining. I have multiple friends whose banks are in the hundreds of thousands. A couple who've hit the gold cap on their main. There is a TON of money out there, and it's dead easy to make; if I wanted to be wealthier, I could be, I just can't be arsed to.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Again, it is NOT a base material. It's an intermediary material. Like Truegold. You need base materials X to make intermediary material Y which is used to craft end product Z.

    And again; the profession system is deliberately set up to be unfriendly to single characters. It promotes auction house/trading activity. Yes, not many Alchemists are also Miners. This means they're playing alts, or buying stuff from someone else. This is all good for the economy.



    I think you seriously underestimate the amount of money most people have, and overestimate the amount they're willing to pay. I entered WotLK with something like 8k to my name. In Cata, a little over 30k. For MoP, I had roughly 85k. And I am not a big moneymaker. I farm a little here or there, but most of my stuff is roughly self-maintaining. I have multiple friends whose banks are in the hundreds of thousands. A couple who've hit the gold cap on their main. There is a TON of money out there, and it's dead easy to make; if I wanted to be wealthier, I could be, I just can't be arsed to.
    If we take a look at JC:

    We have base material: Ore.
    Prospected to intermediary material: Gem
    Cut to end product: Cut Gem.

    Which is a synergy between a gathering and a crafting proffesion (excluding the mounts).

    Alchemists have the herbs which they then make into potions/flasks. Again a gathering and crafting proffesion. (ignoring the spirits of harmony as this is something that any character can farm).

    Yet blacksmiths are reliant on a gathering and 2 crafting proffesions. The living steel transmutes are not needed by alchemists in the making of potions and flasks and is just a material. It would be like each alchemist flask requiring a cut gem of suitable stats.

  19. #39
    There is nothing wrong with Interdependence. - It's an MMO for a reason, you have to cooperate with fellow players.
    You might a swell just go play a single player RPG then.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Crazykeven View Post
    There is nothing wrong with Interdependence. - It's an MMO for a reason, you have to cooperate with fellow players.
    You might a swell just go play a single player RPG then.
    There is no interdependence.

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