I watched the debates on Wednesday and I kept wondering are people so dumb that they believe Romney really has a magic plan that's never been tried before and is basically impossible? Then I read threads like this and the answer is made clear. Let me try again.
6 Stacks Of Ore > 60 Bars > 6 Trillium Bars > 1 Living Steel
6 Stacks Of Ore > AH > 1200G - 1500G > 1 Living Steel
For the love of Dog, it's the same thing.
Mining > Alchemy > Which is then used by another crafting profession.
As opposed to:
Mining > JC > Which is then used by the JC
Herbalism > Alchemy
If you want interdependency between crafting professions, that's fine. However it has to be all or nothing. Currently multiple crafting professions are reliant on one crafting profession (A crafting profession that isn't reliant on any other professions for its end products)
N.B. Living steel is not an end product but a material, which are normally reliant on a gathering profession.
Last edited by Reganom; 2012-10-06 at 02:49 AM.
I've got an alchemist and miner too so don't see the problem.
The REAL poblem...
I do however think it's daft how much quicker and more economical it is transmuting to make Trillium than it is to mine it. Nodes are FAR too rare, it takes 4 ore for each trillium, AND because of the black / white thing, if RNG isn't on your side you can be sat on a stack of one colour and none of the other.
OR i just send a stack of Ghost Iron (which is massively overabundant) to my alchemist and I can make a pair of them.
Alchemy is a LOT better way of getting trillium than mining is. I think I could make a stack with alchemy in the time it takes me to get 3,4 bars worth through mining.
Don't forget engineers... six bars for the epic helm, and 12 for the mounts. I'm out over 20k gold just to craft the epic helm, which may easily be replaced over the course of future raiding, all of which goes to alchemists.
Oh I recall it quite well. The engineering helms required more mats, true- six obsidium bolts and six electrified ether, crafted by the engineer and obtainable with mining, three hardened elementium bars, smelted by miners, two color-relevant gems, easily purchased off the AH (without blowing anyone's day-long CD,) a chaos orb, obtainable in a heroic dungeon by the engineer and ONE, yes, ONE bar of truegold. And I thought that one truegold bar was a stupid requirement back then.Originally Posted by parkerlynne
I'd rather expend my own trillium, kyparite, ghost iron bolts, and two relevant gems than fork over non unsubstantial amounts of gold to alchemists just so I can craft a go-between helm. I don't think many alchemists would be content if crafting their trinkets required a few mechanical pandaren dragonling pets as reagents.
“Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily III, World of Tomorrow
Um, I have BS/JC on my main, I am, therefore, dependent on miners and alchemists for my mats.
Someone with Leatherworking is dependent on someone with skinning. Every profession is dependent on another profession. You cannot make everything for 1 profession with 1 gathering profession or 1 other crafting profession. This is intended so that no one profession will be THE gold maker, and no one profession combination will be. To maximize my gold income I have
Alchemy x 2
Mining--for the smelting primarily
That's before I bother with inscription (i hate inscription with a passion)
I refuse to spend time mining, because i can make more gold on the AH than I could mining my own mats. Therefore I am dependent upon miners for literally everything that I do...Nerf this blizz, I wants free mats in my mail
That's essentially what you're saying, you don't want to be dependent on any other profession, the only way to do that is to have blizzard mail you mats.
So far, there are only (to my knowledge, which is admittedly very limited for the Zen Master bracket) Blacksmithing + Jewelcrafting + Engineering that requires another crafting profession (Alchemy), and Enchanters requiring an item from Blacksmiths (enchanting rods, though I heard they took out the different tiers of rods). But the enchanter doesn't really count as their item is only crafted once and that's it.
Honestly I don't see the problem with any of this, I have 2 alch alts for this reason as it has been a similar situation for the last 2 expansions. Though I agree, miners could use with a 1 day CD to make 6 trillium bars into 1 Living Steel.
Also as an aside, why the hell is mining still on stam for the bonus? why not mastery? Its good for every class and wouldn't hurt tanks any if anything help some tanks.
JC has a similar matter, where I can't get Primals unless I transmute with an Alch guildmate, since I have no Alchemist myself. At least, I know of no other way, unless the Spirit of Harmony vendor offers them. Leatherworkers don't have this issue (I'm A JC/LW Hunter), as we can turn Sha-Touched Leather into Exotic Leather into Magnificent Hides, which is nice. However, we're not the best providers of items for people (only leg armors at the moment, along with entry-level PvP gear, while JCs offer loads of needed gems, alchemists make flasks and potions, and so on), and we don't get cool things like mounts or personal gear to make ourselves (just an unseen AWESOME Agility buff that I love, but it'd be nice if it was a visible thing like an Engineering piece of gear, such as the Cata helms).
Living Steel sucks for not being made by the metalworkers, I agree. You should be able to smelt it, but Alchemists should have the leg-up with the ability to proc multiples, so both professions get a usable feature, maybe? There has to be a middle ground because if the Miners and Blacksmiths got the Living Steel and the Jewelcrafters got the PRimal Diamonds, what would be the use for Alchemists beyond flasks and potions, which don't necessarily make great money?
Enchanter's require materials to disenchant, the majority of which come from crafted items.
This is a dynamic economy. You can get buy without having more than 2 professions but if you want to maximize you'll need to pay others to do something for you or have more than 2 professions.
I mean, they made these changes on purpose at the end of Wrath. JC was WAY too good at making cash in relation to the other professions, since it only needed mining. The only people who benefited at all from JC were JCs and Miners, and if you mined your own it was just you. Now, in order to maximize gold as a JC you have to purchase items from other people or have alts to transmute for you.
Inscription was in a similar place, but they nerfed it with reusable gems, only to have it not be profitable enough during Cata. The shoulder enchants are a step in the right direction there.
Last edited by Thirtyrock; 2012-10-07 at 08:27 PM. Reason: elaboration