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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    Cata had the least grind. you could hit 85 and kill deathwing in a matter of hours.
    It also had huge lulls in content release. Dungeons in wotlk were piss easy but they still rewarded you with stuff so it became rewarding for you to do it. Dungeons in cata were harder (although not very much so imho) so it was a bit more personally rewarding to overcome them and they still gave you lots of goodies. Dungeons in Mists are not only easier than wrath they have less reward than in any time in the game short of vanilla. It's worthless and to easy. It is the least rewarding experience I've ever had in the game dungeon wise.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-10-06 at 07:50 AM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    It also had huge lulls in content release. Dungeons in wotlk were piss easy but they still rewarded you with stuff so it became rewarding for you to do it. Dungeons in cata were hard so it was a bit more personally rewarding to overcome them and they still gave you lots of goodies. Dungeons in Mists are not only easier than wrath they have less reward than in any time in the game short of vanilla. It's worthless and to easy. It is the least rewarding experience I've ever had in the game dungeon wise.
    If i'm having to rely on 4/24 random people to complete a dung or a raid, i'm glad it's not difficult, in lue of wiping several times in order to finish the place. Fuck that shit.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    If i'm having to rely on 4/24 random people to complete a dung or a raid, i'm glad it's not difficult, in lue of wiping several times in order to finish the place. Fuck that shit.
    I'm okay if it's easy as long as it's rewarding in some other fashion. Like rep. Or like better justice point rewards. Don't mistake me I'm not whining that it's to easy or to hard. I mean their easy fine but I get something good out of it anyway so I'll keep at it. Now I don't even stay to finish a complete one. If the one or two slots I need don't drop from the boss I'm out dip set. See ya later. It's unrewarding all around.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-10-06 at 07:58 AM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Because alot of times you don't get the gear, it's just another huge cock block. That's assuming I don't get stuck subject to rng bullshit in dungeons and can farm the 460 ilvl which I can't really do anything about since hey look at that justice gear sucks da cock. It is still in every way the least rewarding dungeon experience I've had in the game.
    Blizzard there is RNG in my game, How dare you! Fix it

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by thigan View Post
    Blizzard there is RNG in my game, How dare you! Fix it
    If I wanted this much RNG I'd go play Diablo.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    Cata had the least grind. you could hit 85 and kill deathwing in a matter of hours.
    Compare apples with apples. Could you ding 85 and kill nef in a couple of hours at the start of the expac?

  7. #27
    Even vanilla WoW didn't have any really grindy soloing reps for anything other than vanity items and a few rare recipes. Some of the raid reps did take forever but you got the rep just from clearing the raid every week. Same with BC, only the reps that gave vanity items were really grindy, the others you could earn in dungeons though it's true you had to do specific dungeons. I think they went overboard on the "rep only through dailies" thing. Maybe a hybrid system would be good - you can't buy the tabard til a higher rep level, or the dungeon rep stops at revered or something - but this sounds over the top even compared to vanilla WoW.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    It also had huge lulls in content release. Dungeons in wotlk were piss easy but they still rewarded you with stuff so it became rewarding for you to do it. Dungeons in cata were harder (although not very much so imho) so it was a bit more personally rewarding to overcome them and they still gave you lots of goodies. Dungeons in Mists are not only easier than wrath they have less reward than in any time in the game short of vanilla. It's worthless and to easy. It is the least rewarding experience I've ever had in the game dungeon wise.
    Dungeons in WotlK was not easy..they became easy after the tournament patch and when everyone was way overgeared for dungeons. Cata dungeons was at the same difficulty but they had more trash=more time need to complete. To the subject now, I hate dailies. I think it is a cheap method for developers to make you login as you have "content" to do. It is a way to control the progress of the character. Add to this that they give you no alternative option to gain rep with those factions and it become worse. TBC and Wotlk had dailies but also had repeatables. You wanted rep with lower city to get the key?you could run the dungeons but also you could farm arakkoa feathers and turn them in.

    More options are never bad, no options is bad. When they said they want people to go out in the world I thought that they will think something interesting for us to do out in the world. Then I read about the

    a)spirit of Harmony or no craft
    b)dailies or no rep and no loot from LFR

    I am very disappointed about their lack of imagination and also i am disappointed seeing the most profitable MMO in history using the most cheap methods to force people go "out in the world". If everything, this game is famous about its dungeons and Raids. It is an old game with low graphics, trivial leveling but it had great combat and dungeons. So far dungeons were awful, both from mechanics perspective and atmosphere(although atmosphere is personal taste i understand).

    Ways to fix it soon before it is too late (for me at least)
    -Spirit of Harmony bound on account
    -Alternative way to gain reputation with faction, either with tabard or with repeatable quests/items to turn in
    -Increase the base chance to get loot from LFR and remove lucky charms
    The trick of selling a PvP-MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by pimpeddakota View Post
    I would agree that the dungeons are lack luster and I wish they would bring back the rep reward if you wear the tabard in the dungeon. Maybe not at the amount gained as previous but maybe 500 rep for completing the instance as a whole.
    i kind of liked BC's rep system, pre-max level dungeons would give rep to just before honored, then heroics to exalted.
    specific dungeons, no tabards until exalted.

    or maybe what this person said, but no tabard until revered.
    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    Ways to fix it soon before it is too late (for me at least)
    -Spirit of Harmony bound on account
    -Alternative way to gain reputation with faction, either with tabard or with repeatable quests/items to turn in
    -Increase the base chance to get loot from LFR and remove lucky charms
    these are actually pretty decent idea's, not sure about the last one,
    and klaxxi do have dread amber shards, maybe increase their drop rate... serpents have the eggs...
    just golden lotus / shado pan need help imho.

    but OMG SoH being BoA would be amazing...please for the love of god make it so!
    Last edited by Christan; 2012-10-06 at 08:48 AM.
    Still I cry, tears like pouring rain, Innocent is my lurid pain.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    .

    Ways to fix it soon before it is too late (for me at least)
    -Spirit of Harmony bound on account
    -Alternative way to gain reputation with faction, either with tabard or with repeatable quests/items to turn in
    -Increase the base chance to get loot from LFR and remove lucky charms
    Or even just keep the system they've had in place for god knows how many fucking years now. Justice point gear that was equivalent to what you got in the dungeon itself and VALOR REMOVED FROM REP. God it's gated enough as it is. You get so little fucking points and the cap is so minuscule anyway. If Blizzard doesn't think it's gated enough and want's to gate it more beacuse they don't think they can handle the pace of new content to keep things fresh THAN LOWER THE WEEKLY CAP. It's still a weak ass move on their part but it's still better than what they did now.

    The 458 JP gear that you get now is brain dead as well. I might also add that was buffed up from 450 lololololol I feel bad for the pvp players. They bought all that gear and then it had to be nerfed because it was to much better. Not only did it not solve the problem of justice gear being shit it also didn't stop pvp gear from being better for the most part. It still has a gem slot ffs. It's knee jerk bullshit they did at the start of cataclysm as well with regards to class balance. Everything I'm seeing so far is leading me to believe this is turning into cataclysm 2.0.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-10-06 at 08:51 AM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  11. #31
    While I do agree that the JP should be 463 gear or the iLvl to get into LFR should be lower (this one might be coming).

    I like the 5 man progression.

    If you want faster VP Challenge Modes (and there daily quests) are the way to go, this will also give you a better felling of "self achievement".

    Is there a grind to get gear, sure I can see it but its only 11 days into the expansion, I think you might be playing the wrong game if your "done" in 11 days.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    While I do agree that the JP should be 463 gear or the iLvl to get into LFR should be lower (this one might be coming).

    I like the 5 man progression.

    If you want faster VP Challenge Modes (and there daily quests) are the way to go, this will also give you a better felling of "self achievement".

    Is there a grind to get gear, sure I can see it but its only 11 days into the expansion, I think you might be playing the wrong game if your "done" in 11 days.
    I'm not done (in fact I'm literally farming like two bosses one time every day and then leaving the dungeon when the shit doesn't drop) and even if the dungeon gear was literally handed to me on a silver platter I wouldn't be done. The valor gear IS STILL GATED. The raids and lfr ARE STILL GATED. Every other method I have to improve my character after I'm in full 463 is still gated.

    I'm not bitching that it's to easy or to hard. I would be thrilled as fuck if it kept this level of ease but also EASED up on the ridiculous fucking gating mechanics and gave me some kind of reward. It's just that without doing that and combined with how fucking EASY it is then it becomes the most unrewarding dungeon experience I've ever had.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    I like the 5 man progression.
    people buying crafted pvp gear and going into the heroics is progression? level 90- use the 4k jp saved up - buy crafted 450 gear - be "overgeared" for heroics(and still fail half the time)
    it doesn't help that with how easy crafting mats are to get that pvp sets are getting cheap as hell. i've had healers, who only had enough pvp pieces bought to que up wondering why they kept going oom....annoys me
    Still I cry, tears like pouring rain, Innocent is my lurid pain.

  14. #34
    I can't really say that 5-man dungeons feel rewarding enough at the moment. Although the boss encounters are all pretty diverse, you don't really notice it when there is no danger of dieing on any of them. That's perhaps one of the things I always enjoyed most about new 5 mans, new ways of dieing, lol. But once you got all the pieces of gear you want there is almost no reason to go back and do your 5 mans again because the valor gain is too slow.

    Only Armsmaster in Scarlet Halls managed to satisfy me so far in that area... lots of people keep on dieing to Blades of Light everytime I go there.

    I don't agree with the other points made in this thread though ... ilvl 463 gear for JP... no. That'll have to wait for patch 5.1 probably which isn't that far away.

  15. #35
    They want people in the World playing not afk in SW, that a very good thing. Some people just want to go back to the 24x7 capital city instance queue...

    The game is WORLD of Warcraft, not Stormwind of Warcraft.
    "PvE is like playing chess against an opponent that makes the same moves everytime"

    "PvP is like playing chess"

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    I don't agree with the other points made in this thread though ... ilvl 463 gear for JP... no. That'll have to wait for patch 5.1 probably which isn't that far away.
    Actually it isn't. It's on the ptr soon and so far no mention of it. My suspicion is it won't happen. I'll wait and see. I don't see why it will take to 5.1 or 5.2 but okay Blizzard I'll wait.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Christan View Post
    people buying crafted pvp gear and going into the heroics is progression? level 90- use the 4k jp saved up - buy crafted 450 gear - be "overgeared" for heroics(and still fail half the time)
    it doesn't help that with how easy crafting mats are to get that pvp sets are getting cheap as hell. i've had healers, who only had enough pvp pieces bought to que up wondering why they kept going oom....annoys me
    You do know that in MoP only the PvE stats on PvP gear counts toward your iLvl right?

    PvP gear is very vaild for PvE content now, it is basically PvE gear with extra "free" PvP stats on.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by AiAtola View Post
    They want people in the World playing not afk in SW, that a very good thing. Some people just want to go back to the 24x7 capital city instance queue...

    The game is WORLD of Warcraft, not Stormwind of Warcraft.
    So I have to be pigenhold into playing the game the way you like EVEN though this was the expansion with choice? What happened to choice? Even if you agree with that principle the dungeons STILL AREN'T REWARDING ENOUGH. You can provide them even with slightly better reward and still make it overwhelmingly advantageous to go out and farm dailies to your face off. Their not even thinking about that. They think it's fine the way it is.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-06 at 09:02 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    You do know that in MoP only the PvE stats on PvP gear counts toward your iLvl right?

    PvP gear is very vaild for PvE content now, it is basically PvE gear with extra "free" PvP stats on.
    And it's still better than the pve gear at 358. It was nerfed to solve a problem that it didn't solve in any way. It didn't solve why JP gear is shit and it didn't make PVP gear any less attractive. It's still better. Its the most bone headed knee jerk thing they've done.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  19. #39
    Theres got to be a happy medium somewhere.
    -Cata was faceroll easy. I could get a toon to 85 and with a little luck be able to get into LFR within a day or so, and be ready for reg DS almost right away. Good for alts, bad to have anything to do afterwards, unless i wanted to run regular 9 times a week.
    -MoP feels like its going to be an INSANE grindfest. not that I mind grinding itself, I used to enjoy a bit of rep grinding, and the dailies back in BC; but this seems insane. BRB tons of factions to do tons of dailies for, unless Im missing something, VP seems like it will be a b!tch to cap, at 30 per random and 5 for dailies.
    Do you like daggers?

  20. #40
    So who is holding you down forcing you to play the game. ?
    My suggestion is vote with your wallet.
    There are plenty of good quality alternative games.
    Hey and don’t forget to leave feedback when you quit, because this is the best way to get things changed.
    There are many here who say they like it the way it is, are they the majority ?
    Only time will tell.

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