" I heard you guys were a little frustrated"

[Deleted]

It was a joke?

Given the history Blizzard has had with Rogue changes, especially this past Expansion, I was basically joking that "Blizzard would do a half-assed job and not bother to properly tune Rogues"


I dunno if I should just attach a giant "woosh" to this post, or if it was just really poorly worded or something...

You've genuinely succeeded in confusing and causing serious mental grievances in at least 2 people. I'd consider that post a success myself, if I were you.

[willtron]

The keyword was "BALANCE" in case you missed it.

don't tell me, tell Blizzard, they seem to misunderstand that word.

[Deleted]

don't tell me, tell Blizzard, they seem to misunderstand that word.

There's nothing about it that's difficult! Add some Ying, add some Yang, let it simmer for 30 minutes, add onions and salt, and voilá! Balance for 4.

[Petraclese]

Give blade flurry a CD and add it for all specs (the way it used to be) and buff the energy regen and all my problems will be solved.

[Deleted]

Give blade flurry a CD and add it for all specs (the way it used to be) and buff the energy regen and all my problems will be solved.

Yes, make Blade Flurry shit and have Assassination do NO damage to multiple targets. That'll fix our class. Do people not read tool-tips anymore? Blade Flurry doesn't transfer poison or dot damage. It's completely useless as Assassination, and Sub has too much single target damage to also have Blade Flurry, it would be too overpowered.

[Deleted]

I've played rogue since around middle of BC. I took a break from WoW this year and got back to see what my main was doing. In short, crap.

It reminds me of the start of Wrath when rogues were at an all-time low, only worse.

Why worse? Because during start of Wrath you had something, you had a difference between the specs still. Everyone knew subtlety was more the PvP spec that just jumped around everywhere in and out of stealh, assassination was the more poison oriented spec and combat was the swasbuckler.

Now what? Now nothing. As many of the tools from subtlety were taken and put into talents the special about that spec went away. With some abilities from both combat and assassination removed they're closer then ever except one has a dual-target hitting with blade flurry and one does not.
To me it felt like all the specs were the same. Like playing my rogue I don't chose between 3 specs, but small variations of a single one. Everyone uses same rotation with different names of abilities, everyone uses same poisons, everyone uses same everything. This sucks.

And don't even get me started about PvP. I was never a true all time arena-champion but always liked to do battlegrounds and had over 70k hordies killed... now I can't even kill a damned dps shaman...


Blizzard made the horrible choice of taking the rogue damage from end of Cataclysm as the baseline but the truth was that many rogues already had the legendaries and as such it was natural for them to have better damage then other classes. Ironic as it is, they gave us those legendaries because we were the least played class then, but they nerfed us because of those legendaries, leading to a new crap era for rogues. And to be honest, I would not be surprised if we're now again as last played class, going down still. I quit my rogue, if not for some items I had that couldn't be gotten anyone I would have deleted her too...

[AceofHarts]

You guys have had your time in the sun to long

Enjoy the darkness for a while

its well deserved

our time in teh sun? oh yeah mean Dragon Soul? Firelands we were obivously behind most casters and any caster wtih a legendary, warriors were on par.
during T11 we were middle of the pack at best.
so if Rogues had there time in the sun for 1 raid, then Casters, who had all of Casterclysm...when do they get to sit down? because it obviously hasnt been yet.

[Deleted]

-Snip-

Please, don't mention the legendaries as a source of our "overpowered-ness". They didn't affect our damage AT ALL. The legendaries had a bad proc, specifically designed to NEVER give us an advantage in PVP(and at times, neither in PVE.....). The weapons themselves were as good as Madness HC weapons, so they didn't even give us increased weapon damage or anything. They were essentially just the same weapons everyone else were using, just orange.

They didn't give us ANY advantage at all, and people who claim they did have no idea what they're talking about. Our damage came from simple scaling. That's it. We had a lot of stats, our passive scaling mechanics kicked in, and voilá, "op rogues are op".

[Lysah]

And to be honest, I would not be surprised if we're now again as last played class,

Realmstats shows that there are more level 90 monks than there are level 90 rogues. At level 90 we are the least played class. We're even below warlocks now.

Blizz knows this, they have this data as well and I'm sure they have a nice graph posted on the wall that shows a declining participation in rogues across the board as time goes on. They don't seem to know what to do about it, though. They could try listening to the community, you know, the people who play rogues, but they never have.

[MikeBogina]

ohhhh nothing gives me more joy than to see rogue or a mage whine! About time the class with the most OP utility ever was finally not doing the most melee damage. Keep up the good work Blizzard

[Uricidea]

One question: Why, at the very start of an expansion, would being in the middle of the pack be a problem? Is there an inherent class entitlement to top 2? I can see and understand the actual conversation about the mechanics of it all, but to base the complaint on being mid-pack takes the sting out.

[Lunareste]

Oh herro.

Its flattering that my post has garnered so much attention with the community but I think that we should all be leaving our feedback in the official forums. They posted in that thread because they realize that we are having issues. Try and tell them what issues you are having. They are listening.

[Lysah]

One question: Why, at the very start of an expansion, would being in the middle of the pack be a problem? Is there an inherent class entitlement to top 2? I can see and understand the actual conversation about the mechanics of it all, but to base the complaint on being mid-pack takes the sting out.

We offer literally nothing else to a raid. Other middle-of-the-pack DPSers bring combat rezzes, extremely important raid buffs, overall utility (stuff like symbiosis or skull banner or any other raid boosting ability that most classes bring and rogues do not). Rogues have devolved back to the TBC days of bringing nothing but their damage, our survivability isn't even as good as many other specs. And that damage is average.

Taking all of the above into account, why would you ever recruit a rogue for your raid/guild when any other DPS class can do as much or more damage but will also bring other abilities that are also fantastic? It would be one thing if you had a rogue or two to not waste the leather drops, but with guard/feral/brm/ww there are plenty of better specs to use those drops.

You can go dig up Aldriana's post (or a number of other posts) on what would be helpful changes to the rogue class. Very few people are asking for damage buffs. What people want is utility - where everyone else got a ton of shiny new buttons that can actually affect the way they play, rogues lost half of their core abilities and then "got them back" in the form of talents. Fun.

[AceofHarts]

One question: Why, at the very start of an expansion, would being in the middle of the pack be a problem? Is there an inherent class entitlement to top 2? I can see and understand the actual conversation about the mechanics of it all, but to base the complaint on being mid-pack takes the sting out.

middle of the pack dps.
next to no raid utility.
minimal raid buffs.
melee dps - therefore subject to anti melee boss mechanics.
no tank or healing ability.

tell me. why would you wan't a rogue in your guild?

[Vinho]

you must have ignored Burning Crusade Release, Wrath Release, and Cataclysm Release then when rogues were middle of the pack at best.

Sure we start off weak but if you can't hack being middle of the pack until you're decently geared... then I think you're just QQ'ing... As much as I'd love to be #1 every encounter, at all times during every expac... reality sets in and let some other classes shine for a bit.

I will agree that rogues play a little weak right now, however, we're so gear dependant I don't see what the big issue is...
I'm doing 60k single target at 465 ilvl on my combat rogue and I know I will scale much better than all other classes with more upgrades.

[Deleted]

Sorry, bro, I don't remember a time when rogues were terrible. I remember times when people didn't know how to play them so they thought they were terrible.

That's kind of the problem rogues have tbh.

Because (for example) rogues can choose their fights, when we are terrible we won't attack you when you are out in the world, so other classes experience of fighting rogues is only when they actually stand a chance, or more usually when rogues can own them at the end of expansions.

Because when they are middle of the road melee rogues can be sat out of raids and no buff is absent and someone else can do better damage, you don't miss them then either.

If you ask most players about rogues they remember being ganked, rogues owning meters etc. But inbetween those times (and they do happen generally at the end of expansions, no question there) have often been up to a year in the wilderness where rogues have been mediocre at best and awful at worst. Right now rogues are mediocre but ok in pve and kitable to the point of uselessness in pvp.

It'll change, it always does - but you won't remember the kiting bit, just the stunlock annoyance bit. I think a lot of this issue might be because more or less everyones first experience of a rogue is at level 20 when some ganking rogue retard blasts them out of their shoes with no warning over and over........

[Deleted]

ohhhh nothing gives me more joy than to see rogue or a mage whine! About time the class with the most OP utility ever was finally not doing the most melee damage. Keep up the good work Blizzard

The problem is, if I start answering to all these (word) coming to our forums just to post this garbage, it will be me who will get the infractions, not them, so ah well.

[Ghul]

May very well be the case. I think I've only seen one other rogue playing, other than me. Didn't really run across any while leveling either.

might be because our class is intended to not be seen :P

[Deleted]

might be because our class is intended to not be seen :P

Might explain why Blizzard doesn't seem to notice our problems!

[SHT]

One question: Why, at the very start of an expansion, would being in the middle of the pack be a problem? Is there an inherent class entitlement to top 2? I can see and understand the actual conversation about the mechanics of it all, but to base the complaint on being mid-pack takes the sting out.

Are you on drugs? We should be in the top 2-3 because we are a pure dps class. I'd love to change specs so I can tank/heal when our damage is low, but alas I can't. For Rogues it is either we can bring it or we get out of raids - other classes offer class utility and can bring other benefits to a raid. Apart from tricks and the odd sap we might as well be a Death Knight pet.