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  1. #21
    Vengeance don't get worse with more avoidance, or better doing /sit. Vengeance is a 2% of the melee damage you would have received with 0 armor, no avoidance, no block, no % for stances, no nothing. Parrying 10 attacks on a row gives the same vengeance that getting naked and giving your back to the boss.

    Magic damage was... 5%?

    Anyways, vengeance will keep scaling with content, and better gear won't make it worse. NOR better.

    On the other hand, dps should getter better gear instead of complaining of tank dps, which is completely undependant of our gear (barring hit/exp), only of the encounter. I recommend arenas, free 383 gear.
    Last edited by Espada; 2012-10-06 at 03:39 PM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Sephrie View Post
    Call it whatever you like, it just takes away the fun and makes your effort worth less.
    Why does another role doing high damage dimish your worth? Does it make your epeen shrivel?

    The biggest gripe amongst amongst tanks to the end of the last expansion was that they were just thick skinned idiots that got hit in the face so that the "important" people could do their jobs. Noone wanted to tank because of this, little fun, little reward and relatively high responsbility (compared to damage dealers). Now suddenly tanks are doing damage that matters, healing that matters and they can mitigate the damage they take in a way that matters. Tanking is suddenly a very fun and rewarding role. I hope that gear scaling makes damage dealers deal a higher percentage of damage but I hope that which tanks deal stays meaningful.

  3. #23
    I'm a prot warrior and I agree 100%. Don't get me wrong I love topping the meters but really 60k (single-target) and 250k+ on multiple trash packs is a little absurd.

    I'm actually really curious what my DPS would be like on single-target if I actually reforged for hit/exp instead of rolling with .56% hit and 1.2% exp (can't get any lower atm) considering how high it is without having any.

  4. #24
    Honestly, there's really not much downside in PvE to tanks doing good damage. It's not as if you can just stack tanks, like you would if a certain DPS class was overtuned, because none of them will get Vengeance, which is the enabler. It makes tanking more fun that they can do damage and if your guild has an exceptional tank that can multitask well and manage a good dps rotation while he's positioning bosses and keeping himself alive, it's like you're adding another half a dps'er to your raid.

    Let the tanks have their fun. It hurts nobody.

    As long as the PvP ramifications are dealt with, there's really no issue with it except dps-role players feeling hurt or entitled. I can live with that.
    Humans are the only species on the planet smart enough to be this stupid.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Karazee View Post
    Honestly, there's really not much downside in PvE to tanks doing good damage. It's not as if you can just stack tanks, like you would if a certain DPS class was overtuned, because none of them will get Vengeance, which is the enabler. It makes tanking more fun that they can do damage and if your guild has an exceptional tank that can multitask well and manage a good dps rotation while he's positioning bosses and keeping himself alive, it's like you're adding another half a dps'er to your raid.

    Let the tanks have their fun. It hurts nobody.

    As long as the PvP ramifications are dealt with, there's really no issue with it except dps-role players feeling hurt or entitled. I can live with that.
    Technically speaking, if you could all manage to taunt you could theoretically keep vengeance rolling.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Sephrie View Post
    Call it whatever you like, it just takes away the fun and makes your effort worth less.
    I don't see how it makes your effort worth less and the only way it takes away the fun of raiding/dungeoning is if you're a meter whore.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitepepper View Post
    I don't see how it makes your effort worth less and the only way it takes away the fun of raiding/dungeoning is if you're a meter whore.
    What's wrong with being a meter whore? As a DPS you have two jobs in a raid.

    1.) Take the least amount of damage possible.
    2.) Whore the meters.

  8. #28
    As a prot paladin I feel tank damage has been 2 high as well. Vengeance is great to help tanks threat and dps scale, but not having a cap is what's really causing all the problems in raids. I find it funnny they "nerfed" it so its a 20 sec buff (and how it currently works) so tanks will do less damage in heroics, but not add a cap to it.. meaning unlimited dps in raids.

  9. #29
    Imagine if they gave all dps the tools to do the tanks job better than the tank could do it. How do you think the tanks would feel if they were the extraneous ones?

  10. #30
    Field Marshal Patchee's Avatar
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    Its down to vengance, on my dk tank i pull 60k SINGLE TARGET and about 140K aoe dps, plus the high HP and the Bloodshield stacks = GG

  11. #31
    The Patient blackone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alturic View Post
    What's wrong with being a meter whore? As a DPS you have two jobs in a raid.

    1.) Take the least amount of damage possible.
    2.) Whore the meters.
    The second is "do as much damage to the correct targets as possible", that job isn't in any way effected by how much damage your tank does.

  12. #32
    Brewmaster Playintrafic's Avatar
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    Tanks should deal damage. Lots of it. I like it. Its not broken in any way. Besides, as gear goes up tank damage will go down. Boss fights will be shorter, damage taken will be less, veng wont stack as high.

  13. #33
    Herald of the Titans Tuvok's Avatar
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    My butthurt metre is going off the charts when I enter this thread. Compete with the other dps, don't worry about tank dps, it shouldn't affect you in any way since you're not in competition with them for DPS. It's not like tanks are going to replace DPS, the amount of tanks and dps needed in each raid will always remain the exact same so you're not going to lose spots over it. I advise filtering the tanks out of your dps metres if it bothers you that much.
    "The truth, my goal."

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by jobbly View Post
    Yes they should, but the issue will sort it self out just a little further down the road. When dps gear up they will do more dmg, when tanks egar up they will get more avoidance which nerfs revenge.
    Except Vengeance is still applied even if mitigated/avoided, so no avoidance won't stop vengeance.

  15. #35
    Herald of the Titans SL1200's Avatar
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    Tank dps is way too high i agree. Has been too high since halfway thru cataclysm.

  16. #36
    either you're failing to take down the boss, in which case the tank damage probably isn't the reason... or you're not failing to take down the boss, in which case you're simply feeling inadequate.

    the solution to feeling inadequate is not to make the people around you LESS capable -- the solution is to become more capable yourself.

  17. #37
    Brewmaster catbeef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reakash View Post
    /sit makes us take an unmitigated blow I believe, so there's that.
    /sit used to mean a guaranteed crit on me, but now it seems i have to /lie when i want to get killed quickly o: strange change
    cow goes moo

  18. #38
    Herald of the Titans SL1200's Avatar
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    Of course tanks are going to say it's not too high, but dps are supposed to be the dpsers not the tanks. Also they are not holding aggro a lot of the time. the tanks are broken.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by blackone View Post
    The second is "do as much damage to the correct targets as possible", that job isn't in any way effected by how much damage your tank does.
    Well, when it comes to "raiding" (notice the quotes, as in real raiding), that's a given. :P

  20. #40
    Field Marshal
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    QQ more .... in a months time no one will care cos all the blues will be gone and you will be out dpsing the tanks again.

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