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  1. #121
    I enjoy it i mean Blizzard i think has tried to bring some Lore to raids an dungeons. IMO a tank should be the leader of a group the strong individual that the boss should wanna kill, felt kinda weird honestly in the past that the guy the boss wanted to kill is the weakest ya know. Now its like the boss is after the strongest person in the group the leader. And its not like u can stack all tanks for dps cuz only one tank can get the dmg at a time. Eventually once all of u get out of ur 463 blues and get some raiding gear and set bonuses you will be just up at around the tanks dmg maybe even a lil more? Does anyone agree, or even think its cool that they made the tank roll feel more powerful an more leading in a raid encounter. Like u actually feel more threatening?

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Sephrie View Post
    Yes, cool, my raid is getting bonus dps. But the fights are tuned about tanks doing such dps, with nerfing tanks' dps there would obviously a tunedown of boss' dmg or a boost to dps' total damage. This is about balance, it's like mages did 200k dps while the rest did 100k and every person that complains about it would be "whiner" and "non-teamplayer" because they don't appreciate the bonus raid dps.
    Come back with your flawed comparison when you able to stack vengeance tanks (as compared to mages).

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by rowaasr13 View Post
    Come back with your flawed comparison when you able to stack vengeance tanks (as compared to mages).
    explain, how is my comparision flawed? does inability to stack some certain role/class makes it justifiable to make it overpowered?

    also, my analogy was just to show that I am not just "omg my raid gets bonus dps but I don't care, I just care about my own numbers" and my only concern is balance and logic. There are 3 roles for a reason, what's point in being damage dealer, when tanks deal more actual damage? :P Illogical, even though you can't stack tanks.
    Last edited by Sephrie; 2012-10-07 at 09:17 PM.

  4. #124
    Warchief Henkdejager's Avatar
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    4 tanks...and 5 tanks..wich setup are u using ?:P
    Stuff

  5. #125
    You know their dps is high because of a gimmick, and its actually helping you clear content faster, whats the problem here?

    Do you really care about numbers that much, that you would rather hurt your progression, just to feel better about yourself?

    Get over it.

  6. #126
    The entire concept of threat through damage is idiotic. Tanks tank, healers, heal, DPS dps's. Why Blizzard introduced the whole Vengeance mechanic is beyond me, especially with all the problems it brings with it. An invisible threat system like we had before Vengeance was working just fine and tanks weren't ever pulling stupid DPS numbers.
    "Once you stop caring what an arrogant, ignorant, idiotic little twat somewhere half-way across the world in a mouldy little basement with his mother yelling down at him to get off his arse and get a job is saying on the internet, you will find an immense calm overcome you. Suddenly the world will seem a brighter place and your mood will improve immediately."

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Sephrie View Post
    Yes, cool, my raid is getting bonus dps. But the fights are tuned about tanks doing such dps, with nerfing tanks' dps there would obviously a tunedown of boss' dmg or a boost to dps' total damage. This is about balance, it's like mages did 200k dps while the rest did 100k and every person that complains about it would be "whiner" and "non-teamplayer" because they don't appreciate the bonus raid dps.
    Completely agree. all these people whining either are too dumb to realize that once they have even full normal gear they will out dps the tanks or they are too casual to know enough about the game and care. You are not seeing players from top 200 guilds posting whining about it there all going alright how do we use this to kill bosses faster.

    And to the people posting here going DERP DERP DERP but tanks have no rotation they shouldn't do dps. our rotation has more things to pay attention to than your mage 2 buttons and is about equal to your dk or warrior dps hit whatever lights up rotation or your ele shaman 1 dot 1 spam 1 light up rotation. We still have to pay attention to our hp and do everything to not die too so honestly its harder. Especially as a prot paly like I am where I swap seals based on how the damage is coming out and also spend points on word of glory over SOTR at times based on the situation. Now im not saying tanks should be #1 dps but you people are complaining on the first tier in blues. Every other tier people will walk into in atleast normal mode most people heroic mode gear from the last tier. This is a short lived issue that will not last.

  8. #128
    Brewmaster Raxxed's Avatar
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    Funny.

    When I made this thread in 5.0.4 in Cata people shrugged it off as 'lol it's cata' despite explicit evidence from beta raid testing.

    Now when it actually effects you, you decide to pay attention to it.

    Hah.
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Blizzard offered cardboard cut outs with poster pictures of bosses stapled on them upside down and sideways and many players now feel that is raiding.

  9. #129
    Vengeance stacks the longer the fight goes on, so in reality, the more damage you're doing as a tank the worse your raid group is. So don't feel so bad man. Vengeance may make tanks look good but it makes their guilds look really bad.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by GamerLCD View Post
    Vengeance stacks the longer the fight goes on, so in reality, the more damage you're doing as a tank the worse your raid group is. So don't feel so bad man. Vengeance may make tanks look good but it makes their guilds look really bad.
    It's based on the damage you take over the last 10 or 20 sec (can't quite recall). Guilds not killing bosses in that window of time do indeed look really bad...

  11. #131
    What does it matter as long as you can't just bring in additional tanks to replace DPS? If you replaced tanks with a Thrall who did 1 million DPS and tanked for you, it still wouldn't change the fact that the encounters could be designed such that you need good player DPS to take them down.

  12. #132
    The whole "debate" comes down to ego, and its just pathetic.

    Tanks fill a role, they tank. Imagine if tank skills did ZERO damage, but tons of threat. Would you complain? No, the job is done and you get to do yours. Would you call a tank a noob because he has 0 DPS, while you do tons? No, because you understand their job.

    Now change that 0 for 10MILLON dps. What’s the difference? They do their job, you still do yours, and you still need to excel at your job on "hard" content. Because the content IS balanced around tanks doing that damage.

    Is it really that hard for DPS people to disregard tank DPS? Top DPS is still the TOP DPS, not the TOP TANK... the problem is exacerbated due to the utter idiocy of the people following damage meters blindly. They are a tool to measure your performance, uptime, apm, etc. on very specific sections of an encounter. For example, to measure your burst on particular phase that requires it. They are in no way an absolute measure of your awesomeness, e-penor, or whatever you think it is.

    and I’m sorry to burst your bubble, but wow is a game of math internally, DPS players do damage on a target that has the exact ammnt of HP to offer a challenge to dps geared on a particular ILVL, while he dishes out exactly enough damage to be offset by healers with the same ILVL gear... healers are HOTs on the raid, DPS are just Dots on the Boss.

    And reality slaps you in the face and you realize you were playing a game.

    DPS classes are not there to do “ZOMGDPS HUR HURRRR” DPS classes are there to do it intelligently while overcoming obstacles placed there by the devs and HAVING FUN while you do it. Tanks sit there and take the punches, and you do whatever the encounter requires. You go and slam the gong, run out the fire, stack somewhere all the while you worry about interrupts, positioning and switching targets as the encounter demands it. for the love of god people uninstall that damn recount addon and HAVE FUN.

  13. #133
    what's so bad about ego? Why would you not have an ego? Why can't people "have fun" by being top dps, by getting high recount numbers? People like things different ways, just because it's not what you think, it's pathetic?
    And again, sure gimmicks, high tank dps help down the boss blah blah... sure that's all good but why not have other gimmicks that let healers and dps do the same? High tank dps doesn't make the encounter anymore engaging.

  14. #134
    Anyone who is crying about this either doesn't know how to play their class, or else just aren't geared enough yet. I am doing higher DPS on my main than any tank I've ever been with, even when that tank has better gear. As you either learn how to play your class, or get better gear, you will eventually easily outdps any tank.

  15. #135
    Nerf vengeance and make base damage higher, it sucks hitting like a wet noodle while solo questing/grinding.

  16. #136
    Dreadlord ipoststuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sephrie View Post
    It diminishes fun of playing a dps, seeing tanks doing more damage than you.
    Do you have your fun while playing or looking meters? If you wanna compare yourself ignore tanks on the list. As long as it doesnt encourage tank stacking im ok with tanks doing high dps.

  17. #137
    Bloodsail Admiral moremana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sephrie View Post
    Call it whatever you like, it just takes away the fun and makes your effort worth less.
    So if someone out dps's you in a raid or dungeon your effort is worthless? seriously. Boss dies, you get loot = WIN

    I bet you play a hunter don't you

    Its a gear scaling issue atm, before you all complain why don't you do some reading. Tanks aren't OP.

  18. #138
    Stood in the Fire
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    I think I'd agree a lot more with people in this thread that are saying "calm the shit down, bro" if the dps they did was 'in line with' rather than 'better than' most dps players. To me, each role has a certain metric that personifies the class. For tanks, this is damage taken (less being better due to avoidance, although this isn't a perfect one), dps have damage done + dps, and healers have healing done and hps.

    Getting the numbers that are out there at the moment makes the tank metrics bleed into the dps ones. Some may say it's petty to see a number and tie the effort you put into this game to it. I say it's common sense and shifting a role's core metric away from one place and swinging it elsewhere is not something to be taken lightly.

    I'll see where it goes but for now I sympathise with the DPS crowd. GRBRGBRLBRRRRRLBRRRR <insert mad epeen howling here>.

    If you wanted skill-based PvP, why didn't you start playing DotA?
    GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

  19. #139
    Big numbers are great right,are you that shallow to presume they must nerf tank dmg just because they are doing in certain fights more dmg simply because of special abilities they inherit on that fight?I play a guardian druid on live and while questing or soling stuff my dmg is still less than half of a dps,yet in a raid I can help out and my dps can matter does that mean I am overpowered?hell no.and if you think otherwise than you have issues that won't be resolved either way with the nerf of tanks or not.

  20. #140
    Tank DPS always has been a problem since they introduced vengeance, not only since MOP.
    Tanks with their inherent cleave abilities topped damage meters of every dungeon group, unless you as DPS outgear them or have strong cleaves yourself. Hell, with a DK or monk you do not only out-dps the others, you might even outheal the healer. A good tank "is" the dungeon group, especially in level dungeons or when you start outgearing the content.

    I stopped bothering about this long ago, everything that makes my dungeon group go faster is welcome, and for tank this is quite a pleasing fact. But with MOP it was put to a whole new level, now they also compete on single target fights with the DPS-classes. And this is where it really starts to get ridiculous. I had a 80k vengeance rolling in a 5-man dungeon (no idea how he's called, the boss with the desorienting strike), giving me 5 times as much AP than I have normally.

    So I think Blizzard should limit the vengeance buff somehow, as they did in cata.

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