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  1. #1

    Universal Healthcare

    I am an American, and as such I've grown up always hearing from the media/politicians/private insurance companies that Universal Healthcare is a bad thing. So I am curious to hear from those covered by it, if you get sick with the common cold what do you do? Do you have to wait for a doctor? What does it cost to fill a prescription? Also if someone needs something major done like a surgery or organ transplant what happens? I've always been told you may end up waiting for surgery until its to late. Just curious about how it works, I know you pay higher taxes for the system but here if we don't have health coverage through work or somewhere else then you pay a heck of a lot more for health care than you would pay in higher taxes.

  2. #2
    I am Murloc! Orlong's Avatar
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    The problem with Universal Healthcare in my opinion is that those of us who already pay for healthcare will end up paying MORE in taxes to pay for those who refuse to buy insurance which is bullshit.

    People should be more responsible and pay for their own stuff. If buying health insurance requires you to give up non-necessities like TV, newer cars, cell phones, dinner at restaurants etc... then so be it.

    In addition to that we will now have to wait in longer lines since there are more people that need care and the same amount of caregivers. Also we will likely not get the same standard of care due to more people being given healthcare and being rushed through the system. Also under a Universal healthcare system, generally the doctors are paid what the government says their services are worth and as such there is no incentive to more than the minimum work since they wouldnt get paid for it. Less people are also likely to become doctors since they cannot control their own income and may not even make enough money to pay off their student loans in a timely manner. Most doctors become doctors because it pays well. You take away the high pay and people dont want to be doctors.

    The ONLY people who want universal healthcare are people who either dont want to or cant pay for their own insurance. The rest of us who already pay for our healthcare are happy with it the way it is.

    TLDR; Those of us who pay for healthcare dont want the quality and quantity of what we ALREADY have diluted and pay a higher cost for it through taxes.
    Last edited by Orlong; 2012-10-06 at 03:07 PM.

  3. #3
    Mechagnome Ridesdel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    The problem with Universal Healthcare in my opinion is that those of us who already pay for healthcare will end up paying MORE in taxes to pay for those who refuse to buy insurance which is bullshit.

    People should be more responsible and pay for their own stuff. If buying health insurance requires you to give up non-necessities like TV, newer cars, cell phones, dinner at restaurants etc... then so be it.

    In addition to that we will now have to wait in longer lines since there are more people that need care and the same amount of caregivers. Also we will likely not get the same standard of care due to more people being given healthcare and being rushed through the system.

    The ONLY people who want universal healthcare are people who either dont want to or cant pay for their own insurance. The rest of us who already pay for our healthcare are happy with it the way it is.
    BS, i know someone, who i work with, that pays nearly 400 a week in insurance for a family plan, thats about 80% of her after taxes pay, she isnt happy with it because it covers shit, and costs an arm and a leg.

  4. #4
    Dreadlord Rakeer's Avatar
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    well, personally, If i get something simple like a fever or a cold I dont go to the hospital. One issue is when people go in for something they dont need to they end up clutter the system. Im not entirely sure, but I think that all perscriptions are covered, you dont have to drop a dime. and there is a wait for transplants, but ive never heard of someone not getting it soon enough.

  5. #5
    Fluffy Kitten Baiyn's Avatar
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    I'm English and I love the NHS. It's one of the few decent post-WW2 socialist initiatives still functioning today. I got really ill a couple of years ago and needed extensive treatment to start making a recovery, at the same time, my family was going through a very bad, money-consuming split, so, as I was just a poor student at the time (not much has changed!), with no financial support available from my family then, I would likely have not been able to pay for all of the services which the NHS provided me.

    The NHS certainly has its flaws, as all health care systems do, (waiting times for non-emergencies can drag out and quality of care varies between regions) but I am proud of the fact that (at least for the moment) health care is a right in the country and not a privilege. It's one of the few things I feel it's appropriate to be patriotic about.

    I was coincidentally reading about a US citizen's account of her experience with the NHS just this morning. It was an interesting read. Check it out:

    http://www.healthyconcerns.com/2009/...e-systems.html
    Last edited by Baiyn; 2012-10-06 at 03:18 PM.

  6. #6
    Immortal Sigma's Avatar
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    in the UK we have the National Health service, Arguably one of the best health services on the planet.

    You get a cold, then you can go the Dispensary and get cold remedy medicine.
    Most doctors require you to make an appointment, I can make an appointment and be seen same day.
    if its out of doctors hours, we have walk in centers which are staffed by medical personal and a doctor, usually until midnight or later depending on the area.
    We also have our emergency services to deal with accidents, or emergencies.
    As for surgery if its needed, then you get it, and you don't get charged for it. depending on the surgery involved there is a waiting list.

    yes we do get taxed for this via National insurance which comes out of your wages automatically, However I am perfectly happy to pay this, as I know that if in the future no matter what happens to me in my financial future that should I fall ill, or have an accident that I will be treated and not have to worry about receiving a bill for Thousands up on thousands of pounds.

  7. #7
    In Australia if you earn over a certain amount you need to pay for private health cover, but low income and certain groups get free health care (not for elective surgery etc). We also subsidise prescription medicines for certain things.

    Biggest difference is the priority of each. Private you get seen quicker, better facilities and generally much better doctors. My healthcare is covered due to being in the ADF, however my wife isnt and the general waiting list for dental work is 2+ years without being in private, I had an abnormality found in a checkup and was in surgery within 2 weeks for a dentist, gyno appointment - fast tracked public system 3 months and my wife is still waiting. Sadly we cant afford thousands of dollars for her dental and health insurance wont cover existing problems for the most part.

    To Orlong, your post makes it seem like you only think people rich enough for health insurance deserve to be given help medically, just because someones circumstances has made them less rich with money doesnt stop them still being human and deserving of adequate care when needed. The lower classes normally need the health care more due to less access to better foods/rest or excercise. Further increasing the health services to the majority increases productivity due to less downtime. When a person can get an illness seen to earlier, its less time off from work and quicker recovery.

  8. #8
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    Well in Belgium, healthcare is viewed as a basic human right, not a privilage
    What it means is that you don't pay the full price for medical threatment, so you don't have to sell your house if you happen to have cancer

  9. #9
    High Overlord Jadhak's Avatar
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    Ok here is a point by point experience in my life (UK, Italy & Denmark):

    "if you get sick with the common cold what do you do?" - Take some paracetamol, use tissues to blow my nose and sleep a lot at home. No need to see a doctor - or mostly I just ignore it till it goes away.

    "Do you have to wait for a doctor?" - Is it life threatening? Are you running a very high fever? No? Then you'll get an appointment sometime in the week. If yes, you will be seen straight away at either your local clinic or if it is closed at the hospital or you can call an ambulance and they will come immediately.

    "What does it cost to fill a prescription?" - £20 (more or less) if you are full time employed, £0 if you are disabled/chronically ill or unemployed/ £0 for children (iirc.)

    "Also if someone needs something major done like a surgery or organ transplant what happens?" - prioritisation system dependent on urgency, higher urgency cases get filled as soon as organs are available. Also it depends on the disease and the age of the patient.

    This is all covered by my maximum rate of around £200 a year on the National Insurance scheme, which everyone has to pay for.

    Case in point: My aunt had leukaemia, at the time there were no facilities around us, so full treatment (including accommodation) was paid for her in France. Her cure in France began 1 month after being diagnosed.

    and to ORLONG who very nicely said "we will now have to wait in longer lines since there are more people that need care and the same amount of caregivers. Also we will likely not get the same standard of care due to more people being given healthcare and being rushed through the system"

    I'm happy to see someone who thinks other people's lives are less valuable than your own since they are not able to pay. Would you still make this BS response if everyone had the same insurance as you and all used your same healthcare system?

    It's amazing how Americans have been brainwashed into protecting the insurance companies massive oligopolies and the cushy salaries your private doctors get. This in the land that is supposedly all about liberalism and free competition in the market.

    P.S. Whenever we approach the subject of non-universal healthcare, we always wonder why the US is so "advanced" in many ways but so much like third world countries in others (i.e. healthcare insurance and the death penalty mainly).

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadhak View Post
    P.S. Whenever we approach the subject of non-universal healthcare, we always wonder why the US is so "advanced" in many ways but so much like third world countries in others (i.e. healthcare insurance and the death penalty mainly).
    Thats capitalism for you, I also think it has something to do with a lot of (certainly not all) Americans being allergic for socialism

  11. #11
    High Overlord Jadhak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RüneRS View Post
    Thats capitalism for you, I also think it has something to do with a lot of (certainly not all) Americans being allergic for socialism
    I get your point, except that if you think about it you will realise that it's not really capitalism, is it? If it was, a whole number of banks would have been allowed to fail, but they were propped up. A proper capitalist system would have just let them fail under the theory of creative destructionism (yes, I am an economist).

    Instead it is government supported capitalism ,which is absolutely fine unless you get to the situation where only the rich and powerful are receiving that support (which is becoming more and more the case in the US - and elsewhere).

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadhak View Post
    It's amazing how Americans have been brainwashed into protecting the insurance companies massive oligopolies and the cushy salaries your private doctors get. This in the land that is supposedly all about liberalism and free competition in the market.
    This is the biggest reason I hated Obama's "health care reform". His plan cost us an ungodly amount of money, but didn't fix most of the biggest problems with our health care system... and doesn't give everyone health care (it just fines you if you don't find and pay for your own).

    I do think think that a lot of Americans, as Rune said, are opposed to any idea that sounds or feels like socialism/communism, even if the idea has merits. It's a logical fallacy of the highest order, but probably a remnant from cold war days... though that's really just a guess on my part, I haven't studied the situation anywhere near enough to know one way or another. The notion that you can use some things from a different system of government without completely converting (ie that you could adopt a system that would be used by a socialist government without actually becoming socialist yourself) is beyond many people, sadly.

  13. #13
    Fluffy Kitten Wikiy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGiant89 View Post
    So I am curious to hear from those covered by it, if you get sick with the common cold what do you do? Do you have to wait for a doctor?
    This is all speaking from Croatia's perspective. We usually don't go to the doctor's for common colds, but if we get throat infections or something of the sort, yes, we have to wait a bit. It really depends on what hospital or health centre or w/e you're going to, but it's usually anywhere between 30 mins to 2 hours. And we don't mind that.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGiant89 View Post
    What does it cost to fill a prescription?
    As long as it's anything used for purely medical purposes, 0.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGiant89 View Post
    Also if someone needs something major done like a surgery or organ transplant what happens?
    If you need a major surgery that doesn't involve organ transplants and if the hospitals can provide it, you will get it and you will not be billed for it. As for surgeries that require organ transplants, it really depends on whether there are any organs available. There usually are, though, seeing as my country is 6th in the world by organ donations per 1mil people and is also a member of an European organization that redistributes organs using helicopters if they're really needed among countries. And again, you wont be billed if you get an organ and your life is saved.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGiant89 View Post
    I've always been told you may end up waiting for surgery until its to late. Just curious about how it works, I know you pay higher taxes for the system but here if we don't have health coverage through work or somewhere else then you pay a heck of a lot more for health care than you would pay in higher taxes.
    I've never heard of anyone dying in my country because he or she wasn't operated on quickly enough. As for health care taxes, just so you know, it's extremely cheap. On a gross salary of 2200 euros per month, the health care tax is about 50 euros.

  14. #14
    Dreadlord Wookeh's Avatar
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    I am an American, and as such I've grown up always hearing from the media/politicians/private insurance companies that Universal Healthcare is a bad thing.

    So I am curious to hear from those covered by it, if you get sick with the common cold what do you do?

    -Go to a doctor that same day, no problem. Even if it's late he or she will come to your home. If your own doctor is on vacation you can simply drive to the hospital.

    Do you have to wait for a doctor?
    -Nobody i know has had to wait for a doctor is the situation was bad.
    What does it cost to fill a prescription?
    -Nothing.
    Also if someone needs something major done like a surgery or organ transplant what happens?
    -I'd honestly don't know the awnser to this one but according to the Dutch kidney organization (or something) it's 4 years for a kidney.
    I've always been told you may end up waiting for surgery until its to late.
    -False. My mother had an infection in her stomach and was in surgery that same day. Same goes with other people that i know.
    Just curious about how it works, I know you pay higher taxes for the system but here if we don't have health coverage through work or somewhere else then you pay a heck of a lot more for health care than you would pay in higher taxes.
    -I never had insurance through work, though it is possible but as far as i know they simply deduct that money from your paycheck to some degree. I currently pay 117 euro's a month for my health insurance. This covers the basics (which i'm sure is more than the basics in the United States) and my dental. We do pay more taxes than in the United States but this is not due to Universal Healthcare. Taxes have been going up due to other economic situations.

    Doctors also earn less money than in the United States. They still live big and are considered rich, but they're not milionairs and their education is about 40 times cheaper than in the US.

    Edit: also note that i'm covered all over the world. So... if something's seriously bad and for some magical reason i have to wait in my own country, i can go elsewhere and still be covered.
    Last edited by Wookeh; 2012-10-06 at 04:34 PM.

  15. #15
    Pit Lord tommypilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    In addition to that we will now have to wait in longer lines since there are more people that need care and the same amount of caregivers.
    This is one of the most offensive things I have ever read. The fact that you would prefer other people not to get treatment to cut your waiting time is one of the most abominable things I have ever seen written. I only wish I could give my opinion of you without being banned.

    In response to the OP, the British helthcare system is brilliant. The most contact I have had with it was when I fractured my ankle at university. I broke it on Saturday night, stayed in the hospital, they then drove me in an Ambulance 100 miles to the hospital in my hometown, so I could be nearer to my family. I had to wait a couple of days for the swelling to subside, had an operation Wednesday night, and was released at noon on Friday. After it had healed I received several weeks of physiotherapy, until I was comfortable walking with it. For free.
    Last edited by tommypilgrim; 2012-10-06 at 04:48 PM.
    Did you like the above post? How about sending me a dollar? I'd have adverts here but apparently that'd break ToS.

  16. #16
    High Overlord Jadhak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommypilgrim View Post
    This is one of the most offensive things I have ever read. The fact that you would prefer other people not to get treatment to cut your waiting time is one of the most abominable things I have ever seen written. I only wish I could give my opinion of you without being banned.
    Which is what I also wanted to say.

  17. #17
    The Insane peggleftw's Avatar
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    all i want to say is, i owe my life to the NHS, i had phenomia (sp?) as a child, my family would never have been able to afford treatment, but my life was saved by the NHS, with no cost to us. i do not mind my taxes going towards the system at all, some people abuse it a little by going to the doctors for things like a cold when its really not necassary to go.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-06 at 05:53 PM ----------

    about the waiting times, it is done based on the urgency of the operation, if somone needs an operation within the next 24hours, they are not going to be put at the bottom of the queue. you might have a bit of waiting time if you go to ER on a friday night with a broken arm
    Too cool for a signature

  18. #18
    Universal health care systems are different in every country, but they all pretty much have one thing in common: people really like them, and would throttle you if you tried to take it away from them. The USA will be the same. Don't believe me? Try ending Medicare and see how long you go before you get beaten by an angry mob.

    All the talk of rationing of care or the government making decisions instead of you and your doctor is either overblown or else downright fiction. If you have an acute situation that requires faster treatment you'll get moved up to get treated sooner. Old people aren't left to die or go untreated because they're old. You see people in their 80's getting pretty big treatments like hip replacements. The only time they get denied is if there is little prognosis (again by doctors, not the gov't) of recovering from the procedure.

    Even the costs are lower in universal systems. Gov't has huge buying power for discounts or control over rates. Allowing people to get access to doctors and treatment before their medical conditions get out of hand saves a ton of money too.

    The only real downside of universal healthcare is that wait times tend to be longer to get care in order to help keep costs down. If you're rich that seems like a bad deal. if you're poor or middle class and couldn't afford the procedure or the insurance to cover it, then it's still a pretty good deal. Would you rather wait 5 months for a procedure or 3 weeks and have to put another mortgage on your house?

  19. #19
    healthcare is a human right, if americans don't like it they can die due to enormous and rediculous bills that bankrupt you and doom you into the streets.
    I don't mean to offend anyone but people would be better off with it and it's not there because of some bullshit propaganda.

    It's rediculous if you suddenly get a condition or if something fucks up in your body you're screwed if you're a middle class citizen.

  20. #20
    I was on medicate for a while, when I was a kid.
    Usually doctors are kind of jerks, but still if you have a cold, you can find one, sit in a room for far longer than private insurance, but get checked out, though they will look at you much quicker than when private insurance.
    I'm comparing my medicate experience to those of my kids' private insurance experience - where doctors are nice, and speak softly and smile.

    In my opinion, medicare/medicate should cover everyone (or Obamacare, to a lesser degree - I'd prefer single-payer system). But there should be options to upgrade.

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