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  1. #1

    Valor Points from Raid Bosses

    Hey everyone, just noticed last night while killing bosses in the new raid that I wasn't getting VP for kills (no I'm not capped for the week). Do normal modes not give VP anymore? Is it just for this week? A bug?

    Just curious, thanks for the help!

  2. #2
    I also noticed this and was disappointed. I am starting to not like this new philosophy of running the same tired dailies every freaking day in order to get rep, VP, tokens for cooking, etc. It is basically going to kill any ability to play multiple characters unless you don't have a job, wife, daughter, etc. Starting to like this less and less.

  3. #3
    I have some similar thoughts on it, but it depends on if this is for good. I could understand if they bar you from getting VP from normal bosses the first week or something since not everyone is doing it? I would be very dissappointed if this continues though. Dailies, scenarios and heroic dungeons every week to cap VP will get old reallll quick.

    But anyway, just looking for clarification. At least now I know I wasn't the only one who didn't get VP, but I'd like to know if it's set in stone etc, never heard anything from Blizzard regarding them taking VP out of raiding..

    Thanks again!

  4. #4
    They said we'd have a choice in earning VP, but what it's turned out is that this "choice" means doing it all every day every week. Not much of a choice.

  5. #5
    Really? Wow... thats pretty lame, Im not raiding yet but was looking forward to not having to do as many dailies to cap VP, once I hit Rev with Klaxxi I'll have almost no reason to bother with them aside from VP now

  6. #6
    We do have a choice with VP We can choose to do those annoying daily quests or not get VPs. Also it's good to note that since they killed the idea for VP gear ilvl upgrade, VPs are really useful early on. Once you hit T14 raids and start getting boss loot - nobody will care for VP gear anyways.

  7. #7
    There are actually a few pieces (for mages anyway) that don't drop from MV, so VP gear is our only option. Sure I can wait a month for the new raids to come out but in a game where everything is based off how quickly you can get new upgrades/new boss kills, I'd rather get my current available BiS gear, even if it will be replaced 2 weeks later.

    Oh well, the reponses here have at least cleared up my question regarding whether we're supposed to get VP from boss kills. Seems kinda silly not to give VP for boss kills but whatever...

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by saintlyn View Post
    We do have a choice with VP We can choose to do those annoying daily quests or not get VPs. Also it's good to note that since they killed the idea for VP gear ilvl upgrade, VPs are really useful early on. Once you hit T14 raids and start getting boss loot - nobody will care for VP gear anyways.
    You're sure we won't be upgrading VP gear? I don't remember seeing that change.

  9. #9
    Stood in the Fire uzumati's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magpai View Post
    You're sure we won't be upgrading VP gear? I don't remember seeing that change.
    Possibly in 5.1 it didnt make release
    Victoria Aut Mors

  10. #10
    I think this new setup is totally disasterous.

    The entire concept of currency in the first place is to smooth loot table RNG to give players the possibility to at least grind some rewards from completing content.

    As of launch Wrath onwards, the currency was tiered in such a way that you had Heroic Dungeons / 10-man raiding on one currency and 25-man raiding on another. That was streamlined in Cata such that Justice is the 5-man grind and Valor is the raid grind.

    Divorcing Valor from the current PvE raiding content like this completely defeats the purpose of currency in the first place, and it turns it into some convoluted two-tiered super-casual grinding system that doesn't make any sense. Justice points literally serve no purpose right now logically like they did in the Cata currency model, because higher ilvl epics are just as accessible to people who don't raid.

    They really need to rethink the whole system, because I think Valor coming only from raiding and having equal rewards as raiding is the right system. Even BC, which supposedly everyone thinks was more "hardcore" was way way way less "hardcore" with currency, in that the Justice purchaseable gear at launch was identical in power relative to raiding content as the Valor items are now.

  11. #11
    It looks like Blizzard wants people "out in the world" doing dailies. They still find it reasonable for JP rewards to be subpar to 5-men drops or that you need to do 20+ dungeons a week to cap VP, whereas before you could cap them by 7 dungeons a week. Want PvE rewards, but lottery is unkind to you? Go grind hundreds of dailies. Want to take your time doing dailies? Take hard VP cap in face - if you are lv90 and still not doing dailies, you are already wasting VP.
    Quote Originally Posted by underdogba View Post
    I think this new setup is totally disasterous.

    The entire concept of currency in the first place is to smooth loot table RNG to give players the possibility to at least grind some rewards from completing content.
    Instead we get even more RNG than before. TBC moved into right direction with Badges of Justice, WotLK barely improved system, and MoP is just step back to pure lottery again.
    They really need to rethink the whole system, because I think Valor coming only from raiding and having equal rewards as raiding is the right system. Even BC, which supposedly everyone thinks was more "hardcore" was way way way less "hardcore" with currency, in that the Justice purchaseable gear at launch was identical in power relative to raiding content as the Valor items are now.
    In TBC you could do dungeons/raids and get PvE currency (badges) directly for doing them. Dailies were there to provide gold, mostly to tanks/healers (many dailies didn't involve fighting, and even then - tanks/healers damage was higher in comparison to mobs' health pools than now). I, too, don't see what was "hardcore" about TBC except heroics on release, but they were nerfed quite fast. And yeah you could buy better than 5-men hc gear (slightly worse than KZ gear) for initial Badges of Justice, and you were getting rep from running dungeons, not from doing tons of dailies. In MoP JP vendors are used to get ethereal shards if you are enchanter and VP vendors are forcing you to do dailies (which no longer provide reasonable gold rewards), which is just a low blow (especially for tanks).

  12. #12
    you have a choice of DAILY quests, meaning you can doe some and not other. what more choice do you want players, jesus!

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by underdogba View Post
    I think this new setup is totally disasterous.

    The entire concept of currency in the first place is to smooth loot table RNG to give players the possibility to at least grind some rewards from completing content.

    As of launch Wrath onwards, the currency was tiered in such a way that you had Heroic Dungeons / 10-man raiding on one currency and 25-man raiding on another. That was streamlined in Cata such that Justice is the 5-man grind and Valor is the raid grind.

    Divorcing Valor from the current PvE raiding content like this completely defeats the purpose of currency in the first place, and it turns it into some convoluted two-tiered super-casual grinding system that doesn't make any sense. Justice points literally serve no purpose right now logically like they did in the Cata currency model, because higher ilvl epics are just as accessible to people who don't raid.

    They really need to rethink the whole system, because I think Valor coming only from raiding and having equal rewards as raiding is the right system. Even BC, which supposedly everyone thinks was more "hardcore" was way way way less "hardcore" with currency, in that the Justice purchaseable gear at launch was identical in power relative to raiding content as the Valor items are now.
    The TBC badge gear wasn't Sunwell quality. There were a few pieces that were arguably as good, but it was weird weapon speed stuff that wasn't ilvl related, but awkward combat calculations related. Still, I do agree the system is backwards in Mists. You have VP vendors that provide those missing pieces, but now you don't get points from the system you're doing that needs smoothing out? Uh huh...

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    The TBC badge gear wasn't Sunwell quality. There were a few pieces that were arguably as good, but it was weird weapon speed stuff that wasn't ilvl related, but awkward combat calculations related. Still, I do agree the system is backwards in Mists. You have VP vendors that provide those missing pieces, but now you don't get points from the system you're doing that needs smoothing out? Uh huh...
    Sunwell has nothing to do with anything.

    At launch, heroic (and reg 70) dungeons awarded 115 blues and a chance at a 105-110 epic from the last boss.

    The badge gear was all 105-110 epics.

    Karazhan was 115 epic.

    What I'm talking about is the launch condition, and not the misconception of 2.4 badge "Sunwell" gear which I agree was not Sunwell gear, it was BH/MT gear.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    you have a choice of DAILY quests, meaning you can doe some and not other. what more choice do you want players, jesus!
    Lol, you don't If you start making choices, you will start losing VPs due to slowing down your rep progress. Also Golden Lotus quests - you need to do all first 5 quests, or you won't be able to do next 4, and you must do all 4 quests in next q hub, or you wn't be given quest for elite, and it gives highest chunk of rep among all dailies.

    You have zero choice how to raise rep to use VP. And you have zero choice how to grind VP, VPs from dailies won't be enough anyway, and as raids won't give VP, you will have to run lots of dungeons, and to be able to use VP you get from dungeons you have to do dailies. Everything is pigeonholed into those damn dailies, even getting your raid food is pigeonholed into doing awful cooking dailies and farm.

  16. #16
    If you're in a guild that requires you to get gear ASAP in order to progress ASAP, then you don't have a choice. This is intentional.

    However, if you're in a guild which doesn't require this and you play the game on a far more casual basis, then you absolutely do have a choice. You do not need to do everything, every day. There are many, many weeks (months, even) to do all the content in 5.0. There's no rush whatsoever.

    So if you feel like the current daily grind is too much, focus on 1-2 factions instead. You may find this a lot more manageable.

    But yeah, if you're in a hardcore guild, well... Get grinding those dailies. And this is 100% intentional.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Magpai View Post
    They said we'd have a choice in earning VP, but what it's turned out is that this "choice" means doing it all every day every week. Not much of a choice.
    Yeah, then again players actually having a choice of anything is an illusion.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    But yeah, if you're in a hardcore guild, well... Get grinding those dailies. And this is 100% intentional.
    You don't have to be in hardcore guild to feel the weight of bad lottery. In whatever guild you are, you still want to help your raid by getting gear outside of raids. Gearing up without dailies is currently all tied to RNG.

    PreMoP, if you had bad luck with raid drops (common situation), at least you were getting some VP/badges as compensation - even if you didn't have anything useful to buy from VP vendor, you could buy VP BoE and sell it for some cash which would cover raid repairs and consumables. Those freaking MoP dailies are gigantic gold sink, as they take long time, and award pathetic gold and MoP mobs drop couple silver grays usually.

    So if you are raiding, you have no choice but to do dailies, farm gold (if you are not good with AH) and do dungeons - all in big amounts. Sure you can skip all that, walk in red gear and farm normal bosses for elusive lottery drops without any raid buffs (did I mention yet that you need to do daily cooking, which are often too tedious and awful like the one with the goats, and farm to get your raiding food?).

    And what is more fun in this, true hardcore guilds have infinite amount of gold/resources anyway - there is a reason that goldselling and botting is popular. Account sharing is also popular there, so if you don't enjoy dailies, you can pay someone to do them for you.

    In the end, "middle class" suffers. Hardcore never had problems with resources, non-raiders don't really need VP as much as raiders. Instead of improving VP system to be more reliable source of gear and fade out old-as-WoW lottery, it is gated by dailies, which are no longer here to help you with gold but are forced upon you, and VP are even removed as drops from raid bosses. Is GC's team sick or something? Only raiders have actual use for VP, not your super-casual dailies' farmer, they don't meet any gearchecks in their dailies or 5-men. VP belongs to raids, I don't mind non-raiders getting them, but primary source of VPs should be in raids.

    P.S.: Oh and did I write that doing all these things takes time? It is second freaking day already I have neither time nor wish to do anything in WoW after those dailies. Peeling 600k HP daily mobs as tankadin isn't fun process, and still GC's team found reason to nerf tankadin's main source of damage by 80%...
    Last edited by Ferocity; 2012-10-03 at 11:42 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthor View Post
    Yeah, then again players actually having a choice of anything is an illusion.
    Nonsense. You always have the choice to stop playing altogether as the most obvious example, but I see almost no two people that play the game exactly alike.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-04 at 01:57 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by uzumati View Post
    Possibly in 5.1 it didnt make release
    I think it was intended that you would upgrade each content patch, so it wouldn't be until the next patch when you'd see the effects. That was my understanding, anyway.

  20. #20
    Basically they changed the philosophy from "do the same raid 100 times with mains and alts till you bleed" to "make x boring things 1000 times to make the most gear possible to raid, and forget alts."
    I wonder when Blizzard will stop this bouncing from "white" to "black" and back to "white" policy. Going from one extreme to the other is good for getting people attention, the bad way.
    In short taking valor points out of raids, if this is truth, it is dumb.
    Also having to do all this rep grinding with alts to gain access to VP rewards, is also dumb.

    The expansion is still new. Lets see what they will do.

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