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  1. #61
    Moderator Rivelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Matter View Post
    So, if your car had a problem after 2 years and needed something fixed then you would demand a refund? Glad I am not selling you something. I will reiterate though, OP never complained about bugs or anything like that. He basically said he didn't feel like he had any reason to log in after hitting 80 so wanted a refund for that.
    I'm not seeing how 1.5 months after launch (when there are still PLENTY of problems with the game) is comparable to 2 years? And even in regular retail situations, most companies generally allow a 30 day return period...some even on used products if there is an issue with it.

    Just because the OP didn't mention the bugs as one of the reasons for wanting a refund in his initial post doesn't mean it was or wasn't one of his reasons. It just means he didn't mention it.

  2. #62
    Warchief theWocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivellana View Post
    Right?

    "Die, Zhaitan!" ***Shoots sparkly laser firework of death repeatedly and watches giant dragon fall over dead*** (So exciting)
    You too? I was on vent with four buddies during that. You should of heard the QQ'ing, the bitching about it. To be honest, I don't believe it was bugged, but merely unfinished. Why for example, after you kill Zhaitan do the NPC's on the ship act as if nothing has happened and you still have to kill him - when you speak to them. Not one, but ALL the NPC's had the same pre-event dialogues? That's not a bug. That's a friggin' unpolished steaming turd of a "rushed" unfinished dungeon in my opinion.

    That - and I can't keep track of how many goddam times I had to change servers to fix skill point bugs. Then, what did they do? Extend the damn transfer to 24 hours. In one night, I transferred to fix a skill point bug on my warrior in Plains Ashford, then logged onto my Elementalist afterwards and the damn Claw of Jormag was hidden in the friggin ground.
    Last edited by theWocky; 2012-10-06 at 11:29 PM.
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  3. #63
    Mechagnome Fernling306's Avatar
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    Arenanet went on and on and on about not releasing the game until it's ready. I think having the game work fully with very few bugs would be more than acceptable to be considered ready imo. I think if someone was to want a refund for the game not being playable in some aspects, they should be able to if NCsoft will allow it.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    Hmm, I tried this with MoP, no refund

    I wonder if I can do that at a restaurant. Eat a whole meal and then ask for a refund.

    See now I can understand asking for a refund after a bite, or in the case of a game, after playing a few levels. But after level 80? Sounds like you really took advantage of the company.
    I was hoping someone would say they managed that when I saw this thread, ugh what horrible quests
    When in doubt, mumble...

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivellana View Post
    I'm not seeing how 1.5 months after launch (when there are still PLENTY of problems with the game) is comparable to 2 years? And even in regular retail situations, most companies generally allow a 30 day return period...some even on used products if there is an issue with it.
    The general life of a car for a person is 5 years at which point it is normally replaced with a newer model. I fully expect GW2 to release an expansion somewhere between 9 and 12 months. 1 year was a bit short and 2 years a bit long in comparison so I just picked the second. Especially as the OP must have spent a large amount of time in the game getting to 80.

  6. #66
    Moderator Rivelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fernling306 View Post
    Arenanet went on and on and on about not releasing the game until it's ready. I think having the game work fully with very few bugs would be more than acceptable to be considered ready imo. I think if someone was to want a refund for the game not being playable in some aspects, they should be able to if NCsoft will allow it.
    The point is, it wasn't ready.

    As I said before I have had my game crash from disconnects during instances because of server lag, been kicked out of WvWvW on several occasions after having to restart the client because of the siren sound bug (and had to wait in queue after), and had to put off finishing several maps and world completion until weekly server maintenances or restarts due to bugged skill points that have broken again as little as 20 hours after a restart fixed them.

    And those are just the bugs that I've personally experienced. I've seen my husband's story line quest which he was doing along with my character suddenly skip him ahead to a level 48 Vigil quest when he was at level 30 or so...which didn't allow him to choose which group HE wanted to choose and also didn't apply the banner to his character select menu that it was supposed to upon completion, or give him any of the story line quests in between meaning he missed out on several rewards and xp. I've also read about many bugs on the GW2 official forums.

    We're not talking about "very few bugs" here.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivellana View Post
    Right?

    "Die, Zhaitan!" ***Shoots sparkly laser firework of death repeatedly and watches giant dragon fall over dead*** (So exciting)
    No reason to start a bug vs bug debate here to see which game is more buggy, simply not gonna take this thread anywhere. I think only Anet has the right to say what is fair in this case. If there was a dumb law made by politicians / applied by dumb judges, then this could be a productive debate.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by theWocky View Post
    Kind of going off the usefulness of the analogy, but if the car had a manufacturers fault after 2 years, yes, of course I would make them take it back or at least sue them for diminished resale value.
    They would be fully within their rights to refuse to refund you and to repair the fault instead.

  9. #69
    Mechagnome Fernling306's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivellana View Post
    The point is, it wasn't ready.

    As I said before I have had my game crash from disconnects during instances because of server lag, been kicked out of WvWvW on several occasions after having to restart the client because of the siren sound bug (and had to wait in queue after), and had to put off finishing several maps and world completion until weekly server maintenances or restarts due to bugged skill points that have broken again as little as 20 hours after a restart fixed them.

    And those are just the bugs that I've personally experienced. I've seen my husband's story line quest which he was doing along with my character suddenly skip him ahead to a level 48 Vigil quest when he was at level 30 or so...which didn't allow him to choose which group HE wanted to choose and also didn't apply the banner to his character select menu that it was supposed to upon completion, or give him any of the story line quests in between meaning he missed out on several rewards and xp. I've also read about many bugs on the GW2 official forums.

    We're not talking about "very few bugs" here.
    Sorry, I didn't fully post what I wanted to say.
    If anything I am arguing your point. The game is almost literally one big bug. Skill points bugged, DEs bugged, personal story bugged, Dungeons bugged etc...
    They simply released the game way too early and I completely understand people requesting refunds because of this.

  10. #70
    Moderator Rivelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parcus View Post
    No reason to start a bug vs bug debate here to see which game is more buggy, simply not gonna take this thread anywhere. I think only Anet has the right to say what is fair in this case. If there was a dumb law made by politicians / applied by dumb judges, then this could be a productive debate.
    But Anet already did that, didn't they? They agreed that it was fair of the OP to want and to receive a refund. So I'm just not seeing why everyone is calling him names when it's obvious that the game has manufacturing issues and that the company agreed with him.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Fernling306 View Post
    Sorry, I didn't fully post what I wanted to say.
    If anything I am arguing your point. The game is almost literally one big bug. Skill points bugged, DEs bugged, personal story bugged, Dungeons bugged etc...
    They simply released the game way too early and fully expect people to request refunds because of this.
    Takes you 80 levels to figure that out?

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormwolf64 View Post
    Saying someone is stupid for not knowing is stupid .Those who didn't know just aren't religiously reading and devouring every single bit of news there is about the game. I for one like to be surprised and read a bit about what people think and don't spoil the game like most people seems to do. I knew there wasn't any raiding, but i don't expect everyone to do so. This might not be the OP's complaint, so there really is no purpose in going any further in this discussion.
    Being willfully ignorant is pretty stupid.

  13. #73
    Moderator Rivelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    Takes you 80 levels to figure that out?
    It can, if you level through heart quests and the like and don't participate in things like world completion, dungeons and large DEs until you're near max level. Many of the bugged skill points and DEs are in 75+ areas, and I can personally say I didn't do any dungeons at all until I had already reached 80.

    Not everyone participates in every aspect of the game while leveling, and if they do it after 80 they don't realize the bugs are there until then.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Clawtrocity View Post
    The analogies of the fully eaten meal are incorrect.

    OP and others may have gotten to level 80, but if they ordered a 3 course meal and were given the appetizer(Leveling to 80) then told to leave, then in his eyes he didn't receive what he thought he ordered which was a full game with a nice meaty meal (Endgame) and a tasty desert to eat when he's done (Random Dungeons, Dailies, Pet Battles)
    Not quite. He made an assumption (whether fair or not) about the content of the meal and on that basis ordered it. After he ate it he found he was still hungry. Given the refund was successful he is likely to spend that money on another game (another meal). He got he meal he ordered and then got the money back to go buy more food.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandoh View Post
    How the hell is leveling to max level "eating the whole meal"?? most MMO's are played far beyond that and prided on end game and longevity after the max level has been achieved, but i guess is so revolutionary they don't need to have that.
    I know I'm not one of the posters insulting you but playing devils advocate in this instance, whether most MMO's are played far beyond or not, the fact that you confirm that there isn't anything for you after 80 is the same as saying you ate the entire meal. The situation is more the case you made an assumption there was something after the meal, but after you ate it, you found there wasn't.

    But more importantly after flogging the meal comparison to death, is anyone else feeling hungry now............?
    Last edited by tenaka30; 2012-10-06 at 11:52 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion Hazzikostas
    LFR justifies the creation of more raid content when millions of players are able to see content. Only a few thousand people actually saw Kel'thuzad, but millions saw Deathwing. The reason Mists of Pandaria is starting with 18 bosses and adding larger raid tiers than we have had previously is because many players are going to see the raids through LFR.
    So Hardcore elitest raiders trying to get LFR removed are in fact essentially trying to kill off their own content!

  15. #75
    High Overlord grandpapeckinpah's Avatar
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    I don't get all the moralizing and venom in this thread. So a guy took advantage of something that he's allowed to do? Who cares? The only two entities involved in this (the OP and Anet) are fine with what transpired, so why are people going into finger wagging mode?

  16. #76
    Mechagnome Fernling306's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    Takes you 80 levels to figure that out?
    No, not me. I could see that being the case for other people though. You can easily hit level 80 while only achieving 10% world completion, that is not including mini games, achievements, roleplaying and more. I would think hitting level 80 is a very small chunk of what there is to do in this game, therefore making your restaurant analogy work in his favor. Every restaurant I've been to would be more than willing to give a refund if you only eat a couple bites from your meal.

  17. #77
    Bloodsail Admiral Riavan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clawtrocity View Post
    The analogies of the fully eaten meal are incorrect.

    OP and others may have gotten to level 80, but if they ordered a 3 course meal and were given the appetizer(Leveling to 80) then told to leave, then in his eyes he didn't receive what he thought he ordered which was a full game with a nice meaty meal (Endgame) and a tasty desert to eat when he's done (Random Dungeons, Dailies, Pet Battles)

    I bought the game because of the insane amount of hype everyone gave it about it being the next best thing, when I bought it I played for about 35 levels and completely lost interest in it and felt duped by the overwhelming amount of positive reviews it was getting.

    Regardless, I think this kind of post is extremely helpful to those who are in the same situation as me and I think the people mocking Brandoh for merely handing out information need to stop.

    The thing is, getting to 80 takes around 70-90 hours on average. That's still like 3-4 times the ammount of a normal non-mmo game. Guild wars 2's endgame is also the same as it's leveling content. Your analogy is kind of flawed in that way. You make it sounds like every game must have a "endgame" which is simply not true. The meal is the game as a whole, sure perhaps he didnt do all the content in the game by leveling from 1-80, but he would have completed/eaten over half of it and a much greater portion (hours of gameplay/content) than you could get elsewhere (in other non-mmo games) for the same price.

    Thinking that "endgame" content isnt the same as leveling content is a very wow-sighted view, not all games are endgame content heavy, like guild wars 1 as well.
    Last edited by Riavan; 2012-10-07 at 12:11 AM.

  18. #78
    Fluffy Kitten Aciaedius's Avatar
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    So this *actually* works?

    I played the game for about half a day (not playtime, but one evening and one afternoon) before I got too bored of it, and that was mid-last-month, so I should probably be eligible.

    Did you say anything in particular when submitting your ticket which could be useful for anyone else doing this?
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  19. #79
    Mechagnome Fernling306's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riavan View Post
    The thing is, getting to 80 takes around 70-90 hours on average. That's still like 3-4 times the ammount of a normal non-mmo game.
    GW1 among other mmos have spoiled a lot of people. I now know that mmos have the capability of providing an easy thousand hours of gameplay. I typically buy mmos under the assumption that it will provide that much gameplay. This being a game from Arenanet I thought the same thing.
    Note: I am quite a bit disappointed with this game compared to GW1, but think that in the long run I will have spent hundreds and hundreds of hours in game. This might not be the same for others that were expecting the same quality.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Aciaedius View Post
    So this *actually* works?
    apparently it does

    I'm in the process of trying to get refunds for a lot of my other games now, thanks to the OP for the idea. Hopefully I can get a few from some of them.

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