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  1. #1
    The Patient GameFreakRPG's Avatar
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    [BM PvE] How do I start a fight?

    Hello,

    I've changed to BM Hunter for MoP, and I have to say I'm quite confused at the start of a fight. I've spent a lot of time on dummies but all those CDs are driving me crazy. I feel like I'm missing out on a lot of damage during this stage of the fight, so I came here to ask for some advice.

    How I currently start:

    Glaive Toss
    Stampede
    Dire Beast
    Bestial Wrath
    Kill Command
    Lynx Rush
    Readiness
    Kill Command
    Dire Beast
    Glaive Toss
    Lynx Rush
    Serpent Sting (if I use it sooner, I can't refresh it with CoS because doing so will bring me over the Focus cap)
    Arcane Shot / Kill Command (until I'm on about 60 Focus)
    Cobra Shot
    Bestial Wrath

    This is where I switch to my normal rotation, and use Rapid Fire once the last Bestial Wrath ends.
    It's a lot of damage, but I still think I'm missing out on a lot. So if anyone thinks I should do it differently, please tell me.

    I also have some minor problems with switching targets, since my pet switches a few seconds later. Because of this I miss out on some damage (imagine me switching target, using Kill Command and losing damage because it goes to my previous target who happens to be immune for example). Are there any Macros to make sure my pet is always on my target?

    Thank you for your time.

    Thanks Quosk1867, for the amazing sig! <3

  2. #2
    I'm not the best to write these kind of things. But what I do is that I start with Kill Command > Lynx Rush when having my BW, Pre-pot, blood fury and my trinket popped. Kill Command has a "built-in" charge, so it helps the pet to do more dps if you use it first.

  3. #3
    The Patient GameFreakRPG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rullis View Post
    I'm not the best to write these kind of things. But what I do is that I start with Kill Command > Lynx Rush when having my BW, Pre-pot, blood fury and my trinket popped. Kill Command has a "built-in" charge, so it helps the pet to do more dps if you use it first.
    I thought of using Kill Command first, but then it'll have about two seconds left before it goes off CD when I want to pop Readiness, which I'd rather avoid. I'll give it a try, though. Thanks.

    Thanks Quosk1867, for the amazing sig! <3

  4. #4
    Here is my burst which the highest burst dps i have achieved thus far is about 150k

    Pre Pot
    Stampede
    Dire Beast
    BW/Rapid Fire/Kill Command/on use trinkets/Rabid (All in 1 macro)
    Lynx Rush
    Glaive Toss/Readiness Macro
    Kill command
    Dire Beast (2 beast up at the same time)
    Glaive Toss
    Arcane shot until kill command is up
    kill command (can fit 3 kill commands in the first BW)
    Arcane Shot until BW is 1 second left which it should be close
    BW (second 1)
    Lynx Rush
    Arcane Shot Spam while keeping Kill Command on CD
    1 Sec b4 BW is down I put up Serpent Sting
    Rapid fire (second 1)
    Go in to regular rotation

    If all the stars align and my gun scope procs also it goes up a bit higher than 150k. If I popped everything correctly, i'll have Rabid up for both lynx rush also which is really good damage also from the pet.

    I hope that's understandable

    Some may argue that you should put up serpent sting early but It drops off for me and i'd prefer not to use a GCD during BW to put it back up or a cobra shot to keep it up because arcane shot hits pretty damn hard when CD's are popped, Im talking 50k+ crits. I think that pushes SS very low on the priority list. It's like Survival hunters opening up with Explo, Black Arrow, then serpent sting... it's just lower on the priority list. Take this with a grain of salt, this isn't something I have read somewhere, I personally came up with this opener on my own.
    Last edited by danightryder; 2012-10-06 at 11:43 PM.
    I want to have a child and use it as a pulling tool in dungeons.

  5. #5
    The Patient GameFreakRPG's Avatar
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    Seems like we have a very similar burst, although I do not have Rabid on a macro. Would taking it off autocast make a big difference?

    Thanks Quosk1867, for the amazing sig! <3

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by GameFreakRPG View Post
    Seems like we have a very similar burst, although I do not have Rabid on a macro. Would taking it off autocast make a big difference?
    if you're using Lynx, which you probably should as BM you should turn rabid off autocast and macro it with Lynx because one is a 1.4 min cooldown and the other is 1.5 so they line up nicely, just for my 2 cents here's my BM opener:

    Pre Mark....Pre Pot-->While Pet is travelling to the boss, Serpent Sting--->Bestial Wrath/Trinket/Engineering Gloves/Rapid Fire--->Stampede--->Kill Command--->Lynx Rush/Rabid--->Glaive Toss--->Dire Beast--->Readiness--->Dire Beast--->Kill Command---->Arcane->Arcane->Arcane->Kill Command--->Bestial Wrath--->Serpent--->Arcane->Arcane--->Kill Command--->Dire Beast--->Rapid Fire--->(*Normal Rotation*)

    don't forget to Misdirect folks! thats a ton of threat

  7. #7
    ^ problem with above, engi gloves puts any on-use trinkets on 10 second cooldown.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by danightryder View Post
    Here is my burst which the highest burst dps i have achieved thus far is about 150k

    Pre Pot
    Stampede
    Dire Beast
    BW/Rapid Fire/Kill Command/on use trinkets/Rabid (All in 1 macro)
    Lynx Rush
    Glaive Toss/Readiness Macro
    Kill command
    Dire Beast (2 beast up at the same time)
    Glaive Toss
    Arcane shot until kill command is up
    kill command (can fit 3 kill commands in the first BW)
    Arcane Shot until BW is 1 second left which it should be close
    BW (second 1)
    Lynx Rush
    Arcane Shot Spam while keeping Kill Command on CD
    1 Sec b4 BW is down I put up Serpent Sting
    Rapid fire (second 1)
    Go in to regular rotation

    If all the stars align and my gun scope procs also it goes up a bit higher than 150k. If I popped everything correctly, i'll have Rabid up for both lynx rush also which is really good damage also from the pet.

    I hope that's understandable

    Some may argue that you should put up serpent sting early but It drops off for me and i'd prefer not to use a GCD during BW to put it back up or a cobra shot to keep it up because arcane shot hits pretty damn hard when CD's are popped, Im talking 50k+ crits. I think that pushes SS very low on the priority list. It's like Survival hunters opening up with Explo, Black Arrow, then serpent sting... it's just lower on the priority list. Take this with a grain of salt, this isn't something I have read somewhere, I personally came up with this opener on my own.
    You, sir, are doing a few things wrong here.

    First, you should never use Rapid Fire and Bestial Wrath. I've explained exactly why in one of my previous posts, let me see if I can find it:

    Quote Originally Posted by Bombs View Post
    This has been discussed numerous times. I'm surprised you are not aware of the reasoning behind it. Basically....

    Bestial Wrath increases your pet's damage by 20% and yours by 10%. It also causes all your abilities to cost 50% less focus. So a good rotation to follow for Bestial Wrath is KC, Arcane Shot x5, KC, Arcane Shot x3. During Bestial Wrath you only use instant abilities, which highly diminishes the benefit of Rapid Fire. This is why you would want to Rapid Fire separately from Bestial Wrath.
    Next I wanted to ask how you are getting 3 KCs in a single Bestial Wrath. The duration is 10 seconds. So the most you can get out of it is 2 KCs. Unless you are using Readiness during BW in which case you are doing it in correctly. During BW, as my earlier quote says, you want to get 2 KCs and 7 instant shots/abilities out. Any combination of Arcane Shots, Lynx Rush, and/or Glaive Toss will do.

    Also the best way to use the entire CD tree that we now have is as follows:

    Precombat:

    Hunter's Mark
    Potion

    Combat Starts:

    Serpent Sting (or you can apply it later, if it falls off for you)
    Kill Command
    Arcane Shot // Glaive Toss (as many as possible to bleed out all of your Focus)
    Rapid Fire (also any on use Trinkets you have, also, Synapse Springs)
    Cobra Shot (until your Focus gets near cap)
    Dire Beast
    Kill Command (keep this on CD no matter what)
    Bestial Wrath (when KC has 2 or less seconds on CD. You use Rapid Fire first as it gives your pet a chance to gain Frenzy stacks)
    Fill in Bestial Wrath duration with instant stuff like KC, Arcane Shot, Glaive Toss, Lynx Rush
    Readiness as soon as BW wears off
    Rapid Fire (followed with stuff listed after Rapid Fire above)
    BW (followed with stuff listed after BW after)
    Regular priority aftward

    I hope that helps.

  9. #9
    you could start by switching to the better spec, survival

  10. #10
    Blademaster Cejissax's Avatar
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    Could anyone give that beautiful wonderful lynx rush/rabid macro?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Bombs View Post
    You, sir, are doing a few things wrong here.

    First, you should never use Rapid Fire and Bestial Wrath. I've explained exactly why in one of my previous posts, let me see if I can find it:



    This has been discussed numerous times. I'm surprised you are not aware of the reasoning behind it. Basically....

    Bestial Wrath increases your pet's damage by 20% and yours by 10%. It also causes all your abilities to cost 50% less focus. So a good rotation to follow for Bestial Wrath is KC, Arcane Shot x5, KC, Arcane Shot x3. During Bestial Wrath you only use instant abilities, which highly diminishes the benefit of Rapid Fire. This is why you would want to Rapid Fire separately from Bestial Wrath.
    I understand your theory as to why you don't want to use RF and BW together, but Readiness resets RF anyways, so why not use it? You are essentially wasting some free haste by not casting it before readiness (then again after using readiness). Once you cast readiness it is better to not have BW and RF.

    Edit:
    Sorry I didn't read your whole post makes a little more sense now. I'm gonna try what you have written and see how it works for me!
    Last edited by Reyther; 2012-10-07 at 07:38 PM.

  12. #12
    Through a simulated top DPS parse, this is what I could get out of SimulationCraft for a sequence:

    Serpent Sting
    Berserking
    Bestial Wrath + RF
    Stampede
    Kill Command
    Glaive Toss
    Lynx Rush
    Cobra Shot
    Cobra Shot
    Kill Command
    Readiness
    Glaive Toss
    Arcane Shot if above 61 focus or above and BW still active.
    Lynx Rush
    Arcane Shot
    Cobra Shot if SS below 6s duration
    Bestial Wrath
    Kill Command
    Arcane Shot
    Arcane Shot
    Arcane Shot
    Arcane Shot
    Rapid Fire
    Kill Command.

    This is how I start, and it's working very well. 100k+ bursts on the raider's dummy.
    Last edited by Azortharion; 2012-10-07 at 08:00 PM.

    Azortharion#2528 - Skype: azortharion - Stream - Hunter F.A.Q - YT - Hunter IRC - Twitter

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphoric View Post
    Through a simulated top DPS parse, this is what I could get out of SimulationCraft for a sequence:

    Serpent Sting
    Berserking
    Bestial Wrath + RF
    Stampede
    Kill Command
    Glaive Toss
    Lynx Rush
    Readiness
    Kill Command
    Glaive Toss
    Arcane Shot if above 61 focus or above and BW still active.
    Lynx Rush
    Arcane Shot
    Cobra Shot if SS below 6s duration
    Bestial Wrath
    Kill Command
    Arcane Shot
    Arcane Shot
    Arcane Shot
    Arcane Shot
    Rapid Fire
    Kill Command.

    This is how I start, and it's working very well. 100k+ bursts on the raider's dummy.
    You should be able to get 2 KC's in the first BW before popping readiness. That should help DPS even more.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Bombs View Post
    You, sir, are doing a few things wrong here.
    First, you should never use Rapid Fire and Bestial Wrath together.
    False and outdated claim.

    This was discussed in detail on Elitist Jerks, you should use these two together.

    The reason for this is that Rapid Fire is a comparatively weak cooldown for BM.
    You won't be able to burn off the focus, but keep in mind that Rapid Fire increases your PET FOCUS REGEN as well. Enabling much more attacks. Add that to the benefits of BW, and you will find that you should indeed use them together.

    Discussed here: http://elitistjerks.com/f74/t130590-...ry_5_0_4_a/p3/

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-07 at 09:58 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Reyther View Post
    You should be able to get 2 KC's in the first BW before popping readiness. That should help DPS even more.
    Quite true, must have made a mistake there, that KC should be used before the Readiness indeed.
    Last edited by Azortharion; 2012-10-07 at 08:01 PM.

    Azortharion#2528 - Skype: azortharion - Stream - Hunter F.A.Q - YT - Hunter IRC - Twitter

  15. #15
    The Patient GameFreakRPG's Avatar
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    Rapid Fire gives Ranged AS. I thought that means it only applies to you, and has no effect on your pet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bombs View Post
    Also the best way to use the entire CD tree that we now have is as follows:

    Precombat:

    Hunter's Mark
    Potion

    Combat Starts:

    Serpent Sting (or you can apply it later, if it falls off for you)
    Kill Command
    Arcane Shot // Glaive Toss (as many as possible to bleed out all of your Focus)
    Rapid Fire (also any on use Trinkets you have, also, Synapse Springs)
    Cobra Shot (until your Focus gets near cap)
    Dire Beast
    Kill Command (keep this on CD no matter what)
    Bestial Wrath (when KC has 2 or less seconds on CD. You use Rapid Fire first as it gives your pet a chance to gain Frenzy stacks)
    Fill in Bestial Wrath duration with instant stuff like KC, Arcane Shot, Glaive Toss, Lynx Rush
    Readiness as soon as BW wears off
    Rapid Fire (followed with stuff listed after Rapid Fire above)
    BW (followed with stuff listed after BW after)
    Regular priority aftward

    I hope that helps.
    Doing this lowers my burst by about 20k DPS, may I ask how much DPS you're doing by using this?
    Last edited by GameFreakRPG; 2012-10-07 at 08:52 PM.

    Thanks Quosk1867, for the amazing sig! <3

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by GameFreakRPG View Post
    Rapid Fire gives Ranged AS. I thought that means it only applies to you, and has no effect on your pet?
    Your pet inherits your focus regeneration, which is increased significantly by Rapid Fire.

    Not to mention how your faster attack speed gives you more auto-shots to potentially crit and proc Go for the Throat, increasing your pet focus regen even more.

    Azortharion#2528 - Skype: azortharion - Stream - Hunter F.A.Q - YT - Hunter IRC - Twitter

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Bombs View Post
    You, sir, are doing a few things wrong here.

    First, you should never use Rapid Fire and Bestial Wrath. I've explained exactly why in one of my previous posts, let me see if I can find it:



    Next I wanted to ask how you are getting 3 KCs in a single Bestial Wrath. The duration is 10 seconds. So the most you can get out of it is 2 KCs. Unless you are using Readiness during BW in which case you are doing it in correctly. During BW, as my earlier quote says, you want to get 2 KCs and 7 instant shots/abilities out. Any combination of Arcane Shots, Lynx Rush, and/or Glaive Toss will do.

    Also the best way to use the entire CD tree that we now have is as follows:

    Precombat:

    Hunter's Mark
    Potion

    Combat Starts:

    Serpent Sting (or you can apply it later, if it falls off for you)
    Kill Command
    Arcane Shot // Glaive Toss (as many as possible to bleed out all of your Focus)
    Rapid Fire (also any on use Trinkets you have, also, Synapse Springs)
    Cobra Shot (until your Focus gets near cap)
    Dire Beast
    Kill Command (keep this on CD no matter what)
    Bestial Wrath (when KC has 2 or less seconds on CD. You use Rapid Fire first as it gives your pet a chance to gain Frenzy stacks)
    Fill in Bestial Wrath duration with instant stuff like KC, Arcane Shot, Glaive Toss, Lynx Rush
    Readiness as soon as BW wears off
    Rapid Fire (followed with stuff listed after Rapid Fire above)
    BW (followed with stuff listed after BW after)
    Regular priority aftward

    I hope that helps.
    You sir are doing EVERYTHING wrong lmao. Learn how your abilities work b4 you post and give out bad information. First off read the title of the post. "How do I start a fight" Why on earth you have Bestial Wrath after ALL your abilities that’s makes absolutely no sense. Number 2, for an optimal opener you want to get as much damaging GCDs out during 2 major things things, Double Bestial Wrath and pre pot, trinkets and procs are an added bonus. That’s a 20 second window of not wanting to cast any cobra shots because the lack luster damage it brings unless your keeping SS up which some do, I Personally don't. My opener achieves this extremely well especially when our shaman drops storm last totem. I put my SS up just b4 my pre pot + bw falls off.

    Also, the reason I am popping Rapid fire with the first BW is because there’s no other place to put it without being wasted, so it just makes sense use it. You get focus back due to the extra range haste it provides allowing you to not get focus starved during BW to pump out more shots and also over on ej’s after they did their testing, they found that it also gives the pet focus which allows the pet to get his special abilities off with little to no delay because of the increase focus regen the pet receives. Due to BM having so much instant abilities now Rapid fire is a very lack luster CD for US.
    I can get 3 kill commands in the first BW because of readiness which is also optimal. Read up my friend read up
    Last edited by danightryder; 2012-10-07 at 09:29 PM.
    I want to have a child and use it as a pulling tool in dungeons.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by danightryder View Post
    You sir are doing EVERYTHING wrong lmao. Learn how your abilities work b4 you post and give out bad information. First off read the title of the post. "How do I start a fight" Why on earth you have Bestial Wrath after ALL your abilities that’s makes absolutely no sense. Number 2, for an optimal opener you want to get as much damaging GCDs out during 2 major things things, Double Bestial Wrath and pre pot, trinkets and procs are an added bonus. That’s a 20 second window of not wanting to cast any cobra shots because the lack luster damage it brings unless your keeping SS up which some do, I Personally don't. My opener achieves this extremely well especially when our shaman drops storm last totem. I put my SS up just b4 my pre pot + bw falls off.

    Also, the reason I am popping Rapid fire with the first BW is because there’s no other place to put it without being wasted, so it just makes sense use it. You get focus back due to the extra range haste it provides allowing you to not get focus starved during BW to pump out more shots and also over on ej’s after they did their testing, they found that it also gives the pet focus which allows the pet to get his special abilities off with little to no delay because of the increase focus regen the pet receives. Due to BM having so much instant abilities now Rapid fire is a very lack luster CD for US.
    I can get 3 kill commands in the first BW because of readiness which is also optimal. Read up my friend read up
    You sir, should READ my post and understand it...

    It might be true that popping RF and BW at the same time at first is a DPS, but SimulationCraft and other Sims are so broken right now that the numbers simply cannot be relied on.

    The reason I use RF first without BW is because the added haste to my pet gives it more Frenzy stacks so that it does more damage during BW.

    Also, I never said to spend time without your CDs up at the start of the fight. What I said was to NOT overlap them because simulationcraft says to overlap them (RF and BW); but simulationcraft is buggy and broken right now. It values haste WAY TOO MUCH at the moment. My suggestion was to use RF, THEN BW as soon as RF wears off, THEN Readiness, immediately followed by RF, and then BW. Obviously you would be doing the things you need to be doing to maximize your DPS during these cooldowns.

    I hope that made more sense to you. If it didn't, try and read again because it seems like you might the kind of guy who has to read things a couple of times before you start to take an understanding of them.

  19. #19
    RF doesn't increase your pet's attack speed

    You RF with BW cause it means you stack increased attack speed with higher autoshot damage. Using RF at any other time really isn't very optimal

  20. #20
    The Patient GameFreakRPG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bombs View Post
    You sir, should READ my post and understand it...

    It might be true that popping RF and BW at the same time at first is a DPS, but SimulationCraft and other Sims are so broken right now that the numbers simply cannot be relied on.

    The reason I use RF first without BW is because the added haste to my pet gives it more Frenzy stacks so that it does more damage during BW.

    Also, I never said to spend time without your CDs up at the start of the fight. What I said was to NOT overlap them because simulationcraft says to overlap them (RF and BW); but simulationcraft is buggy and broken right now. It values haste WAY TOO MUCH at the moment. My suggestion was to use RF, THEN BW as soon as RF wears off, THEN Readiness, immediately followed by RF, and then BW. Obviously you would be doing the things you need to be doing to maximize your DPS during these cooldowns.

    I hope that made more sense to you. If it didn't, try and read again because it seems like you might the kind of guy who has to read things a couple of times before you start to take an understanding of them.
    I get the idea you've only tried your own burst rotation, and not the others. Using your rotation left me with 20k DPS less than with my own, and a 3~5k difference 5 minutes into the fight. So I'd love to see where you get your numbers, since I don't care about SimulationCraft. All I really care about if the numbers you've actually gotten yourself.

    Thanks Quosk1867, for the amazing sig! <3

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