Page 4 of 12 FirstFirst ...
2
3
4
5
6
... LastLast
  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirse View Post
    That's a lot of renew, which until the patch was discouraged in most cases in PVE. Should I be using it now? I have been using heal in its place and only renew when moving. Are there advantages/disadvantages beyond movement, or is this another somewhat arbitrary choice?
    Well, after my math on my trusty spreadsheet, Renew is 50,068 healing total at a 7800 mana cost. Compared to heal which is 49,501 healing total and 5700 mana cost, I'd say it's pretty cool in terms of healing per second and healing per mana. Also keep in mind that borrowed time is a 15% haste multiplier, which is always an additional renew tick.

    !Renew on live says it's a 2% mana cost, but mists beta has it at 2.6%. Either way, it's a hot that doesn't suck as much as it used to, so find ways to make the most with it.

  2. #62
    Stood in the Fire
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Southampton, UK
    Posts
    449
    From a PvP perspective, Disc is in a much better place than it was in cata. Hopefully the bring our damage back.

  3. #63
    After playing around with disc without using AA all the time as listed above, utilizing SS, IF, PI, Mindbender, and keeping rapture going when all my spirit buffs are up (it is a mana gain) and healing in a similar style to what twistedmynd mentioned above, I am going oom quickly while doing ok HPS at 85. My resto shaman can now run circles around my disc priest in the AoE and overall HPS department and disc is only slightly better for tank healing which does not justify the crappy AoE. Hopefully numbers will change but I don't see that happening until 5.1.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by matthias9742 View Post
    After playing around with disc without using AA all the time as listed above, utilizing SS, IF, PI, Mindbender, and keeping rapture going when all my spirit buffs are up (it is a mana gain) and healing in a similar style to what twistedmynd mentioned above, I am going oom quickly while doing ok HPS at 85. My resto shaman can now run circles around my disc priest in the AoE and overall HPS department and disc is only slightly better for tank healing which does not justify the crappy AoE. Hopefully numbers will change but I don't see that happening until 5.1.
    I'm in the exact same position. Pre-5.0.4 I was absolutely obliterating every other healer in my 25M raid group on every single fight in Firelands and Dragon Soul.

    Post-5.0.4 without of fight-specific buffs and doing ridiculous amounts of padding it's impossible for me to keep up with Resto Shaman now, and even when I am padding I'm only just "keeping up" -- which doesn't make sense, as I know I'm exerting more effort than they are and burning through more mana. I know for a fact I put more effort into preparing myself for this than they did. I'm pretty sure none of the Resto Shaman in my group even logged on to the beta, they didn't need to.

    If my guild didn't already have 3 Resto Shaman, I would probably be rerolling.
    Last edited by Lothrik; 2012-09-13 at 12:44 AM.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucette View Post
    From a PvP perspective, Disc is in a much better place than it was in cata. Hopefully the bring our damage back.
    Im hearing the opposite... or am i hallucinating... lol

    I think what i heard was at 90 that pvp disc is sucking.

  6. #66
    Over 9000! Hyve's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Great Britain
    Posts
    9,122
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitney Houston View Post
    The healer in question is from midwinter, you can assume that he is playing at a level much higher than your average lfd player.
    Exactly the case and point though, that it is merely an assumption s/he is playing well. As lizon pointed out, they failed to use their abilities and cooldowns properly in the encounter. Now, we've got no idea why that is, and we can hardly base an entire spec off a single World of Log file, but s/he should definitely be performing a lot better then that, if we're to use their World of Logs.

    I don't even play Disc Priest and looking through his Log I can see there are many things they're doing wrong.

    Important Point: No-one cares about Level 85 Disc Priest. It doesn't matter at all. All content is so trivial that you don't need high levels of healing. This discussion should be focused on Level 90 Disc Priests.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    Exactly the case and point though, that it is merely an assumption s/he is playing well. As lizon pointed out, they failed to use their abilities and cooldowns properly in the encounter. Now, we've got no idea why that is, and we can hardly base an entire spec off a single World of Log file, but s/he should definitely be performing a lot better then that, if we're to use their World of Logs.

    I don't even play Disc Priest and looking through his Log I can see there are many things they're doing wrong.

    Important Point: No-one cares about Level 85 Disc Priest. It doesn't matter at all. All content is so trivial that you don't need high levels of healing. This discussion should be focused on Level 90 Disc Priests.
    To be honest, the fact that people feel compelled to discuss lvl85 throughput clearly shows that some people do care, no matter how short of a timespan 85 healing has left. You don't and that's ok too, just please stop pretending to moderate this thread.

    Personally, I find disc much more fun and effective this patch than in 4.3, but it's pretty clear it won't hold up at lvl90 looking at the mana costs. Even simulationcraft has disc below holy, and holy isn't exactly OP as it is, though it can be competitive if played right.
    Last edited by emni; 2012-09-13 at 09:54 AM.

  8. #68
    I find disc healing to be decent, I've never been a fan of dps healing and just through normal heals I'm around the other healers, but always on top on absorbs, which should count really. Where I'm finding us a bit weak is on dps. I'm pretty well geared at 394 ilvl, I have the best stuff I can get short of heroic DS, yet if I spam holy fire, smite and penance on a dummy I can barely get 11k dps.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by dendory View Post
    I find disc healing to be decent, I've never been a fan of dps healing and just through normal heals I'm around the other healers, but always on top on absorbs, which should count really. Where I'm finding us a bit weak is on dps. I'm pretty well geared at 394 ilvl, I have the best stuff I can get short of heroic DS, yet if I spam holy fire, smite and penance on a dummy I can barely get 11k dps.
    Um.. what. 394 is not "well geared" when Dragon Soul has been out for approaching a year now. Also, I can do around 26K~ish DPS on a dummy as disc.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Lothrik View Post
    Um.. what. 394 is not "well geared" when Dragon Soul has been out for approaching a year now. Also, I can do around 26K~ish DPS on a dummy as disc.
    That's not a very useful reply now is it? I have every normal DS item except 2. I'm not in a raiding guild so I don't get to do heroic DS, so yes I'm pretty much as geared as it comes.

    As for your 26k figure that's all well and good but doesn't tell me anything. Is your gear that much better? Do you have a specific rotation? Buffed/unbuffed? etc....

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by dendory View Post
    That's not a very useful reply now is it? I have every normal DS item except 2. I'm not in a raiding guild so I don't get to do heroic DS, so yes I'm pretty much as geared as it comes.

    As for your 26k figure that's all well and good but doesn't tell me anything. Is your gear that much better? Do you have a specific rotation? Buffed/unbuffed? etc....
    I'm in full 410/416 gear. Using HoU/Windward/Maw. Only buff I have on is Inner Fire. I use Mindbender, Penance and Holy Fire on cooldown. I prioritize Mindbender > Penance > Holy Fire if they're coming off cooldown at the same time. 26K was just a ballpark estimate, it spikes higher depending on ICDs synchronizing, and I don't have the optimal enchants and whatnot for DPSing anyway (Heartsong, Darkglow Embroidery, reforging to Spirit, etc).

    Healers are not meant to keep up in DPS with actual DPS classes. Most of the people I raid with do >40K on single target training dummies.

    Regardless, 11K sounds very low. I know my DPS didn't double going from 397 to 410, so I don't really understand why you're doing less than half with 394 gear.
    Last edited by Lothrik; 2012-09-14 at 01:09 AM.

  12. #72
    That's why I'm asking. I'm around 9k spell power with int/spi gems and enchants mostly. I didn't actually try with Mindbender when I tested it so I guess that's one thing that would help. I'm not really looking for DPS class type DPS just something higher. Again, I'm not in a raiding guild, most DPS classes I know do 20-30k anyways.

  13. #73
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Baltimore, Maryland
    Posts
    1,808
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucette View Post
    From a PvP perspective, Disc is in a much better place than it was in cata. Hopefully the bring our damage back.
    No it isn't. Disc was good in cata pvp. They were pretty much only 2nd behind shaman and even that is debatable (shaman had their niche in lock/shaman comps and priests pretty much fit the other comps with a few exceptions). When you hit 90 you will have the worst mana regen, lowest healing output and shields with no dispel protection, and of course cloth armor. Basically you won't be able to heal through the burst and will drop. Pretty much like how disc was the beginning of cata before they fixed it.
    Last edited by Freia; 2012-09-14 at 04:32 AM.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    I don't even play Disc Priest and looking through his Log I can see there are many things they're doing wrong.
    Note that I actually do play a disc spec on live and beta. Logs like that where the disc priest is dead last by a major margin is quite normal, and not some random anomaly. Vodka has posted similar logs too. Now it can't be realistic that all disc priests on beta are awful, while holy pallies and monk re-rollers are simply amazing?

    Midwinter is no Vodka or Paragon for sure, but raid spots in any top-ranked guild are limited and highly competitive. The simple reason is that mana regen is so weak that you spend lots of time not being able to do anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    No it isn't. When you hit 90 you will have the worst mana regen, lowest healing output and shields with no dispel protection, and of course cloth armor. Basically you won't be able to heal through the burst and will drop. Pretty much like how disc was the beginning of cata before they fixed it.
    I hope Lucette is either joking or referring to low level random battlegrounds where they are indeed very strong. Disc is one of the weakest pvp healers at 90, and it didn't help that they removed mana burn.
    Last edited by Whitney Houston; 2012-09-14 at 11:42 AM.

  15. #75
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Baltimore, Maryland
    Posts
    1,808
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitney Houston View Post
    Note that I actually do play a disc spec on live and beta. Logs like that where the disc priest is dead last by a major margin is quite normal, and not some random anomaly. Vodka has posted similar logs too. Now it can't be realistic that all disc priests on beta are awful, while holy pallies and monk re-rollers are simply amazing?

    Midwinter is no Vodka or Paragon for sure, but raid spots in any top-ranked guild are limited and highly competitive. The simple reason is that mana regen is so weak that you spend lots of time not being able to do anything.
    Affinity from Blood Legion has said disc and healing priests in general are not really viable for competitive pve (as in going for world firsts and the like). For normal progression you can still use them. Just don't be surprised if we see the Logs of the World First kills having no disc priests at all. They will probably get buffed a patch or two in. Blizzard sometimes likes to wait until live before fixing issues even if they are brought up on beta. The priest issues that made it live in cata were reported over and over again in the cata beta. They still waited until live before putting in fixes.


    I hope Lucette is either joking or referring to low level random battlegrounds where they are indeed very strong. Disc is one of the weakest pvp healers at 90, and it didn't help that they removed mana burn.
    Either that or they haven't paid attention at all. Because as it is, shadow priests can dish out more heals than Disc in 90 arena.

  16. #76
    If people complain about disc being bad, they have no clue how to use it. At 85, I'm doing around 40k HPS and 15k DPS on nearly every boss fight. Disc is soooo OP it's ridiculous!

  17. #77
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Baltimore, Maryland
    Posts
    1,808
    Quote Originally Posted by Ohleemar View Post
    If people complain about disc being bad, they have no clue how to use it. At 85, I'm doing around 40k HPS and 15k DPS on nearly every boss fight. Disc is soooo OP it's ridiculous!
    Learn to read. It is bad at 90 not 85 on old content.

  18. #78
    Herald of the Titans Yilar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    2,870
    Quote Originally Posted by dendory View Post
    That's why I'm asking. I'm around 9k spell power with int/spi gems and enchants mostly. I didn't actually try with Mindbender when I tested it so I guess that's one thing that would help. I'm not really looking for DPS class type DPS just something higher. Again, I'm not in a raiding guild, most DPS classes I know do 20-30k anyways.
    30k+ is totally doable as disc.

    http://i47.tinypic.com/rr01sn.jpg

    Naturally this is kidda staged, as I didn't use anything but attonement healing spells and ended up with like 15k hps, but it's totally doable.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by twistedmynd View Post
    Mrhavoc12: do not be offended

    I was pointed to this thread from the US forums thread (us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6413263607?page=16#315) because of the points you were making, and you called out my video (this video: youtu.be/4HpPUm2XRLY).

    Discrediting my entire point because I didn't model penance in my rotation really hurt my feelings, so let me personally correct that for you, or others closely following your posts:
    Without making any changes to int, spellpower, mastery, haste, crit, or any other variables in my original video, I'm going to remodel several archangel "rotations"

    -(my video demonstrated this) PoH Spam, with no archangel or evangelism: 98,110 hps
    -(my video demonstrated this) PoH spam during archangel, PoH spam, 1 holy fire (at 4 stacks evangelism), and 4 smites: 95,263 hps
    -using PoH spam during archangel, and building evangelism outside of it with 1 holy fire, 1 penance, 3 smites (in that order to maximize hps): 97,166 hps
    -using Holy Fire during archangel and off cooldown, PoH spam during archangel between holyfire, 1 penance soon as archangel drops, and 1 penance at 30.75 seconds in to get to 5 stacks evangelism: 96,182 hps
    -using only holy fire and penance on cooldown (total of 3 hf, 2 pen. 2 hf and 2 pen during AA) and poh spam: 97,597 hps
    -AA, Pen, HF, 4xPoH, Pen, HF, AA ends, 4xPoH, Pen, 1xPoH: 96,060 hps

    What this tells me is that no matter how you model it, you will be at a loss of sustained healing per second if you use archangel rotationally. That and building evangelism should never be done during an archangel, however I would take the small hps loss and build stacks during archangel because waiting until the cd is over to do those spells puts a lot of stress on the other raid healers.

    Speaking of those other raid healers, I also posted my the same gear with different classes' aoe rotations here: us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6413263607?page=16#320

    Basically, aside from me needing more up to date monk numbers, the healing classes are more balanced and equal than any other expansion release in terms of healing per second.

    The logs being linked have nobody supporting them or talking about the decisions they made with spell choices/raid strategy. Generalizations in this thread that are not being backed up mathematically at all. At best, majority of the information being presented here is educated speculation.

    So I largely disagree with your rationalization that disc is somehow in a bad place. I'll agree that many abilities clash, but this is because they are not supposed to be stacked up in a sort of rigid rotation for max healing per second.

    If you're doing things like:

    -working archangel into your rotation and on cd
    -maintaining evangelism
    -proccing rapture on cd
    -using penance on cd
    -using inner focus on cd
    -using prayer of mending on cd
    -maintaining renew on the tanks
    -using spirit shell on cd
    -making 100% sure not to overlap cd's with spirit shell running
    -gaming surge of light procs or borrowed time procs
    -fitting in mindbenders or pw:solaces

    And struggling from trying to juggle so many things, then stop trying to juggle so many things! It's a very slight dip in healing per second and healing per mana to be flexible with all these many cooldowns. Healers are not dps classes, so why are you playing like one?

    Being flexible and adapting to what the situation calls for is what being a priest is all about. Strict rotations (fluid-ness) are for the other healing classes.

    "Basically you are constantly bleeding efficiency through clashes in your CDs and that is just frustrating." Don't think of it that way. You can only manage so much before you completely lose any freedom in your spell selection (and even all that is subject to your haste levels). Adjust to the encounter.

    -Is my tank about to get wasted? PW: Shield, Innerfocus Gheal, then Spirit Shell.
    -Is my raid about to get damaged? Spirit Shell
    -Is my raid taking damage? Prayer of Mending, Spirit Shell, Archangel burst if needed
    -Is my tank bleeding out damage? Rapture, keep up grace, keep up renew, penance on cd, inner focus on cd, use divine insight and strength of soul if necessary
    -Are 2 tanks taking damage? Mending Between them, get renew on both, keep grace on both
    -No damage going out? do smites, offensive penance, holy fires, and pw:solace if you took it
    -Random damage going out? spot heal with penance, your big 3 heals, and bubble people who are low (you're going to take a hps hit here, but that's okay as long as people are staying alive)

    Hopefully this wall of text cheers some people up. Your class isn't broken, and disc is extremely powerful in capable hands.
    Excuse me? Not backed up mathematically? On the contrary my conclusions are based on much more detailed calculations than yours, using realistic high throughput rotations, all our spells and more importantly real values taken directly from in game.

    Your method is still wrong. I dont know how you came up with this stuff. Here are my calculations using real values taken directly from in game.

    eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5208511200

    My calculation involves a 2minute simulation, and includes an accurate sustained HPS rotation with usage of PWS and cascade. I also model usage of spirit shell and the possibility of oscillating damage. I have looked at literally dozens of players so far and I can see the difference between the disc far at the bottom of the meters and disc that is just below the middle. The one at the bottom heals like you say.

    No stacking aegis? Relying only on spirit shell for sustained damage? Have you actually tried this in a raid environment?

    Aside from that your numbers are really high. 100k HPS from PoH? No freaking way, dunno how you managed to get that.

    I find that AA is a small boost to HPS (unless you are using smite) but more importantly a massive improvement in HPM in the order of 10% or more.

    Also it is very interesting that you didn't try to model archangel when you are single target healing. Guess what I did. Check the thread for what things look like in the real world.

    That is exactly the problem. Disc has no freedom on spell selection. To have freedom you take a hit to HPS/HPM. It makes the playstyle easier and possibly more enjoyable but you will lose performance. 5% is not small. You are 5% below the other healers already. You are going to drop even more if you relax.

    Post real logs where you are beating palas, shamans and monks on fights with sustained aoe damage. And not monks who don't use uplift or shamans who dont use healing rain.

    Disc is not very powerful or very good at the moment, except on tank healing.

    As for renew. Renew is great for disc, but using in the tank is a terrible terrible idea. Don't cast renew when the tank is taking high damage at all. Glyphed renew is a fantastic and very efficient raid healing tool, when you can't cast PoH. On three targets cast PWS and use borrowed time to roll renews. You get the BT haste buff on all the renews. It is very efficient and surprisingly high HPS. Renew on the tank should be casted only when the tank is taking very little damage. Otherwise if the tank is high health stack evangelism. Unlike aoe healing for single target healing using AA 1.5 times per minute is massively more HPS.

    I checked the thread with the other classes and I am amazed at why you think that this is balanced. 10k HPS more is 10% more healing at 100k and on top do you realise that you are comparing PoH a party limited long cast time heal with instant smart heals or effectively passive heals like healing rain. In fact both palas and shamans are easily pulling 15% or more HPS than holy priests and disc is about 10% lower than holy. The mana argument fails, because all healers conserve mana for those long burst phases. What happens is during those burst phases palas, monks and shamans pull far ahead of you, because they heal the whole raid, while you have to PoH group by group and in most cases you are hitting 4 targets per poh on average.

    Far from sugesting that classes are balanced the numbers you posted tell us in no uncertain term that disc throughput is really low. I also don't trust your numbers they seem absurdly high to me. The most important bit is also that you can't afford to be in inner fire as either holy or disc. Inner will represents a fairly massive mana saving and most of the inner fire bonus is eaten up by overheal.

    I think your models are really biased and you have made an error somewhere. Both my detailed calculations and my real world experience with beta raiding suggests that holy is not too far behind palas and shamans, because although it is far worse at stacked healing it excels at healing a spread out raid. Disc however falls far behind than palas and shamans on any fight with sustained healing and the only way to compete is to play like a DPS and not a healer.

    I think overall your advice is deeply flawed. Especially your tank healing advice. I actually would urge people to go and try this on the beta and get a screenie of their skada/recount parses so we can see it. I have experimented for months now with my entire arsenal and I can say for sure that its bad, but its best to let people try it and post their results.

    Renew on a spiking tank as disc.... and nothing about rolling borrowed time renews: elitistjerks.com/f77/t129773-mop_beta_discussion/p5/#post2137605.

    Here are some real values from the beta:

    Ilvl 448: 33% mastery, 6.11% crit 14878 spellpower, 3.29% haste.

    PoH heals for: 16940.

    Total healing with crit and aegis = (base heal)*(1+crit*(1+0.9*(1+mastery))+0.3*(1+mastery)) = 16940*(1+0.0611*(1+0.9*(1+0.33))+0.3*(1+0.33)) = 25 973.

    Lets increase that value to 30k to account for 470 gear. 5*30 = 150k divide by 2.422 = 61 932 HPS. Where did you get 100k I dont know. But I am 100% certain that your calculations and model are totally suspect. This is REAL data taken from in game. With scaled 470 gear PoH heals for 20k and leaves an 8k aegis, so 30k is certainly above what we will get in 463 gear at the start of the expansion. Its never going to be 100k even at the very end of the expansion. Spamming PoH with spirit shell in scaled gear is like 80k. This is why your AA calculations are wrong. You have somehow overinflated PoH so much that penance and holy fire use lose you too much HPS compared with what you get with AA. In any case your simulation is meaningless. We never heal like that.

    To model it accurately you need to only use 4 targets average too, not 5. Its not a smart heal. When you do the calculations properly you find that holy is roughly the same as palas and shamans (less stacked healing more spread healing), druids are slightly less than that. Monks are a lot more and disc is about 10-15% below holy. AA is a big boost to HPM and a small boost to HPS compared with not using it 1.5 times a minute. You cant use it more than that.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-15 at 12:16 AM ----------

    Here are some screenies for tsulong a fight that really has a lot of sustained damage.

    First holy. I took a screenie at start of fight. Begining of 1st day phase, begining of 2nd dark phase, begining of 3rd dark phase. After that I died because dragon breathed on the raid and I failed to get out of purple stuff in time. This was a few days ago



    Notice I am sustaining 60k HPS quite effectively. Dont look at the other healers they were terrible. Good shamans and palas would be at the same level and monks would be above me. Its good that they are crap though, because you can see that holy can be effective.

    Next I went and did Disc the way you said. Spamming PoH, and pom, not much PWS, no AA, no cascade, renews on tank, no prestacking aegis. Again begining of the fight, begining of 2nd dark phase and then after we wipe



    Next is with my optimised gameplay of trying to maximise everything I have. I failed here quite a few times, because the fight is so hectic, so I didn't use everything as well as I could have. I think I only got AA about once per minute too and sometimes with only 4 stacks. I could probably be a little higher if I managed to use everything perfectly, but it really takes some optimisation.

    Again begining, then start of 2nd dark phase, then start of 3rd dark phase to show you why my HPS dropped a little



    See how there are several people dead? At this point in time PoH return is even less than usual, but even so you can see I am maintaining a lot more HPS than before, but still no where near as well as holy does. I could be higher, if I played everything perfectly, but let me tell you it is bloody tough to pay attention to the fight and try to juggle everything. If I don't juggle you saw what happened.

    Incidentally in the holy parse the number 6 healer is a disc priest, who plays like you suggest and he was bad on top of it. Right now disc badly played is in a league of its own when it comes to being terrible. Non optimally, but well played disc compared to optimally played disc is also 10%ish, but no one can play disc optimally so it ends up being only 5% or so, because its so easy to fail.

    This is the real state of disc when it comes to sustained damage. We suck. I blizzard didn't nerf penance after listening to the ppl who posted in that solace thread, we would at least have penance 3 stacking evangelism and we would mostly be fine. We wouldn't have lost a ton of healing and made our playstyle stupid. Instead of acting like things are fine GTF back to the US forums and go lobby ghost crawler to give us back 3 stacking penance, make spirit shell refresh aegis, reduce pws cost slightly and fix divine insight/ToF for disc.

    No one wants to be a cooldown whore or be pigeonholed into a tank healer. Right now class balance on healers exists only in your imagination. Monks rock all aoe healing. Disc rocks single tank healing. Shamans and palas rock stacked healing. Holy and druids are strong at healing on the move and healing a spread out raid. These are the real niches for healers. At the moment disc as an aoe healer is really weak. The only reason to take disc are its excellent CDs.

    I looked for world of log fights on tsulong and I found this:

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/t...m/healingDone/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1...m/healingDone/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1...m/healingDone/

    Couldn't really find anything for disc. So similar numbers to what I am pulling.
    Last edited by Havoc12; 2012-09-14 at 11:45 PM.

  20. #80
    All of your parses are 25-man. Disc priests are better for 10, Holy for 25. It has always been that way.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •