1. #1

    Need advice, MW mate does it wrong

    Hello every one,
    I'm currently going into mythic progression, i'm playing BrM, and i have a MW in my roster.

    And the "problem" is that this player, according to me, plays his monk wrong, in fact he never switch from serpent to crane. I tried to show him the advantages of the crane stance but, as I don't really play the spec I couldn't be totally specific.

    Is it ok for you to keep in serpent ?
    What can I say to encourage him to try crane ?

    Here's our warcraft log page in case you want to check his figures : warcraftlogs..com/guilds/44850 ( i put two dots, feel free to erase one, i didn't know an other way to link something )
    The player is named "Aetomique"

    Thx for reading
    Cheers

  2. #2
    Really, I don't see that he's doing anything in particular wrong. Crane stance is not better than Serpent Stance. It's just something that you can do when the healing requirements are low and you think you need to generate mana tea stacks for later. If he's not having a problem with mana, then there's very little point. His performance seems to be on par with the rest of your healers - I'd say the numbers all round are a little low, but I guess that's what you get for taking 5 healers for 19.

  3. #3
    Dreadlord TrollShaman's Avatar
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    Seconding Potta's statement. He seems to be doing just fine with the other healers numbers-wise. Crane Stance is great and all, and I personally believe he can improve by using it, but it's good of him to pull his weight even without it anyway. I snooped through his mana graph, and he seems to do fine as well.

    Maybe he'll see the value of Crane stance when there's a 1% boss wipe or his mana starts seriously flopping further in progression.

  4. #4
    Moderator Babylonius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biscotte View Post
    And the "problem" is that this player, according to me, plays his monk wrong, in fact he never switch from serpent to crane. I tried to show him the advantages of the crane stance but, as I don't really play the spec I couldn't be totally specific.
    What leads you to believe he's doing something wrong? What do you see is the benefit to a healer to switch to Crane from Serpent? A lot of these problems may be with your understanding of MW rather than his performance. What do you think he's doing wrong? Why?
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  5. #5
    Switching into the crane stance is actually quite important for one buff. When you use blackout kick (can only be cast when in the stance of the crane), you receive a 20 second buff, that gives 20% increased critical chance. I don't need to math it out to explain why this is so good. In addition, rotating into the stance helps to increase mana flow, which is important to increasing a monks overall healing. Keeping up a 20% crit buff will be a great way to increase his healing. In addition, every spell cast in the stance of the crane decreases the mana cost and cast time of your next surging mist by 20%, stacking up to 5 times. Rotating into crane is nearly mandatory for the crit buff, but a good mistweaver can utilize it frequently to increase mana regen, crit, and get free surging mists throughout the fight.

  6. #6
    hey, thx for the answers.

    First of all, i was thinking that my mate was doing things wrong because it seemed to me pretty pointless to only play in one stance when you have two. And as Bemonith mentioned, you get some pretty good buffs.

    More, as i'm not a mw player, i checked guides, such as monkioh's one, watched videos ( mythic downs with Mw pov ), and what i got as a result was that Fw was pretty important in the Mw gameplay.
    It grants you some mana tea stacks, a rather solid dps in the pull phase, and you get to avoid every range boss mechanic.

    At this point i wanted the opinion of the community, to get a better understanding of this play style.

    So not playing in crane at all is still ok ? Even in the situation of a guild starting mythic, with 5 healers ? Because we currently raid with 5 healers even though it's not really recommended.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Bemonith View Post
    Switching into the crane stance is actually quite important for one buff. When you use blackout kick (can only be cast when in the stance of the crane), you receive a 20 second buff, that gives 20% increased critical chance. I don't need to math it out to explain why this is so good. In addition, rotating into the stance helps to increase mana flow, which is important to increasing a monks overall healing. Keeping up a 20% crit buff will be a great way to increase his healing. In addition, every spell cast in the stance of the crane decreases the mana cost and cast time of your next surging mist by 20%, stacking up to 5 times. Rotating into crane is nearly mandatory for the crit buff, but a good mistweaver can utilize it frequently to increase mana regen, crit, and get free surging mists throughout the fight.
    Except that switching back to serpent stance drops the crit buff :/

  8. #8
    Moderator Babylonius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biscotte View Post
    hey, thx for the answers.

    First of all, i was thinking that my mate was doing things wrong because it seemed to me pretty pointless to only play in one stance when you have two. And as Bemonith mentioned, you get some pretty good buffs.

    More, as i'm not a mw player, i checked guides, such as monkioh's one, watched videos ( mythic downs with Mw pov ), and what i got as a result was that Fw was pretty important in the Mw gameplay.
    It grants you some mana tea stacks, a rather solid dps in the pull phase, and you get to avoid every range boss mechanic.

    At this point i wanted the opinion of the community, to get a better understanding of this play style.

    So not playing in crane at all is still ok ? Even in the situation of a guild starting mythic, with 5 healers ? Because we currently raid with 5 healers even though it's not really recommended.
    Bemonith is correct that you get the buff, but it doesn't stay after you switch back, so its not as useful as you'd think. Serpent stance is a healing stance, everything it does is for healing. If you want to be the best pure healer, then serpent stance is the way to do that. It is very difficult, to impossible, to equal the throughput of Serpent stance while in Crane.

    Crane stance is for hybrid duty, when you don't quite need a ton of healing, or a bunch of small healing will suffice. You avoid range mechanics whether you're in serpent or crane stance, thats just how monks are coded.

    If you're over healing content, then crane will be of some help to increase DPS without sacrificing a full healer. However, its not required. You can certainly kill all content never having to swap stances.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Biscotte View Post
    So not playing in crane at all is still ok ? Even in the situation of a guild starting mythic, with 5 healers ? Because we currently raid with 5 healers even though it's not really recommended.
    Why are you 5 healing? [You're still 5 healing your heroic farm content, & what looks like an alt run with your mythic healers you 3 healed 13m normal] Your mw should be playing crane because your overhealing content and the dps is of more use than 50% overheal, but by the same margin you should just drop a healer entirely and make them play dps [I'd go for the resto druid, as he/she is terrible & you easily have enough dps to run with less healers
    Last edited by Brady84; 2015-04-12 at 12:25 AM.

  10. #10
    Brewmaster Geodew's Avatar
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    @OP
    You probably just want to read this thread, where someone asked basically an identical question: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ving+mandatory

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Babylonius View Post
    However, its not required. You can certainly kill all content never having to swap stances.
    Just because you can kill the content without Crane doesn't mean you should or that it's a good idea or that it's okay.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bemonith View Post
    Switching into the crane stance is actually quite important for one buff. When you use blackout kick (can only be cast when in the stance of the crane), you receive a 20 second buff, that gives 20% increased critical chance. I don't need to math it out to explain why this is so good.
    As someone else has said, this does not persist into Serpent Stance. Crane is for mana (ridiculously efficient healing, not mana generation itself) and damage.

    Crane is a large chunk of Mistweaver's utility that they bring to the raid. If you're not using it, it's like a RDruid never using Roar or a HPal not using HoP. You could get by in theory if other people pick up your slack, but that's not ideal.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Babylonius View Post
    If you want to be the best pure healer, then serpent stance is the way to do that.
    Actually, not necessarily. Because Crane is so much more mana efficient than anything you could do in Serpent, it's useful to stack high Mana Tea for a heavier damage phase later in the fight, or recover from an intense phase earlier in the fight, allowing you to spam RJW during those phases even at lower Spirit levels.
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  11. #11
    Thx again for the answers.

    --> Brady84 : the reason why we go 5 healers ( and even sometimes 6 ... ) is basically that my Raid leader is a little to soft on certain aspects, imo, so he doesn't want to put aside some players. It might change in the near future as we start mythic.

    --> Geodew : thx for the link, i found some of the information i needed. I'll ask my mate to read these topics as well so he'll have a better understanding of his class.

    Cya

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