1. #1

    [BrM] How to pull without stressing the healer?

    Im normally a Windwalker, and I decided to dabble in Brew Master, so I have been collecting a set, and playing with the target dummies to work out rotation issues. Last night I did a a SoO run and at Dark Shaman the raid lead asked if anyone had a tank offspec so we could do the 3-tank strategy. Silly me, I said I did, and I had experience below (I have done ie on my druid no problem).
    The first go I foolishly pulled before the main tank with Dizzying Haze, and I promptly died because I had 4 guys on my before I could get enough combo points for a shuffle off. That didn't end well.
    Second go I let the MT pull, and then targeted just my guy, used Keg Smash to get two combo points so I could shuffle then taunt. Except the MT apparently didn't have strong aggro on the other adds because I got my guy, and both wolves, so I got nailed pretty hard as my shuffle was coming up. The slime kite phase went swimmingly, as Dizzying Haze is pretty much designed for it. Until after she was done spitting the slimes out, and I realized I had no combo points and and she was charging me, plus a few leftover slimes. I hit her with Keg Smash, at the same time she hit me and a buncha slimes hit me as well, and that was a wipe.
    We eventually got it down, as I started using cooldowns for the pull and the end of each slime phase (and making sure I entered slime phase with 2-combo points).

    Coming from a Guardian druid who can pull the entire group and have zero issues with taking much of any damage, to feeling like I am more squishy than my rogue who accidentally shadow-stepped into them once is a little disconcerting as a tank. Since none of my abilities generate enough combo points pre-pull to already be running shuffle as I pull, I'm stuck hoping Im faster with two buttons than the boss is with one, or praying my healers can keep me up through the spike that drops me 3/4+ of my health, or using a cooldown pre-pull.
    Am I missing something, or is that how it really is for all Brewmasters. Would explain why I never see them in LFRs. And that makes me sad, I like my monk.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by TechGnosis View Post
    Second go I let the MT pull, and then targeted just my guy, used Keg Smash to get two combo points so I could shuffle then taunt. Except the MT apparently didn't have strong aggro on the other adds because I got my guy, and both wolves, so I got nailed pretty hard as my shuffle was coming up.
    This isn't entirely on you though.

    Also, don't forget you can Expel Harm for a combo point. Expel Harm prepull and if you can't use Keg Smash right away, hit a jab, ta-da, you have two CP for a BoK. On my monk I normally just pull with a cd on and 1 CP from Expel Harm.

  3. #3
    I know exactly how you feel Tech, the only way (that i know of) is to have your healers be ready via lifebloom,shields etc and use dampen harm before pull. However the only boss that i've had issues with are heroic garrosh and dark shamans. Just be ready to self heal with expel harm!
    Last edited by Matchez; 2014-07-06 at 08:50 PM.

  4. #4
    Why would anyone have the off-tank BrM tank Kardriss? BrMs are by far the worst tank at handling magic damage and spells, and the best at handling physical attacks.

    That said, on the pull, just use Dampen Harm before you pull and you'll be completely fine. It really shouldn't be required because you shouldn't be the first tank getting aggro on practically any fight anyways, but it's a very easily solution to take virtually no damage before you get Shuffle up.
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  5. #5
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    On tougher fights, I usually ask for external CD pre-pull (like hand of sacrifice / vigilance / ironbark). I raid 25H difficulty so almost every boss will instakill me without shuffle, mainly in the second part of the instance. I only have to do this on Malkorok and Dark Shamans, because on Malkorok I start first (solo tanking the blood rage phase) and at Dark Shamans, RJW and Keg Smash instantly aggroes everything in range. At Dark Shamans, I pop fortifying brew too because I don't really need it otherwise.

    As for the other bosses - I usually let the other tank take them first, so I don't have to worry about this

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  6. #6
    As already stated, Brewmasters are better on Harrom then Kardris. If the raid leader insists on you tanking Kardriss then roll glyph of guard to completely negate spike damage from roughly half of her nukes. Run dampen harm on cd when guard is down.

    On the pull roll in with fortifying brew+dampen harm in case you get aggro on everything, as the only other time you should need it in the fight is at the very end, and it should be back up. If you are getting aggro on everything even after waiting then your other tanks need to step their game up. Aggro on the dogs in understandable if you have high ramp up tanks like a DK, aggro on THEIR boss is not, their single target threat should be on lock and your aoe should in no way pull that off them.

  7. #7
    If you are really struggling you can pre-pop dampen harm like 30 sec before the pull. I usually never have problems with Keg smash - BoK opening, if your ready with a expel harm after those spells its usually fine. If you have a priest in the group you should have a shield on yourself pre pull anyways though.
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  8. #8
    Prepull use expel harm for extra chi point.
    On shamans - at pull, just pop Fort Brew, get all 4 for vengeance boost and do some nice initial AoE.
    As soon as any minion gets in range just keg smash>shuffle. If you drop low just expel harm again (it resets if you dip below 35% HP or something). At start you shouldn't be energy starved so KS>BK>ExH opening is completely viable.

    For slimes, every second wave I believe, you can just pop diffuse magic, run into mele and spin to win them all in seconds.
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  9. #9
    If you're going from 100% to 0% pretty quickly at the pull you can do a few things (because yes it takes us a second to get shuffle up).

    Pop Fortfying Brew on the pull (I do this because I will probably end up tanking all 4 at the start because Brewmaster)
    Go in with a Pain Suppression/Vigilance/Iron Bark to reduce initial damage.
    Make sure your healers are ready to bomb you at the start (this should happen regardless since there's no other damage and this is when you're most vunerable).

    Until after she was done spitting the slimes out, and I realized I had no combo points and and she was charging me, plus a few leftover slimes. I hit her with Keg Smash, at the same time she hit me and a buncha slimes hit me as well, and that was a wipe.
    This part confuses me a little. I completely understand what you're talking about with not having chi or your shuffle eventually falling depending on how you're doing slimes (I've always kited them away). What I'm lost on is how her melee swings are of any real threat. Kadriss actually melees like she's swinging wet tissue paper and her casts are what make her deal most of the damage to you (which shuffle doesn't mitigate anyway). Something else is probably going on right there because this is the only boss that I don't go into a mad frenzy to get shuffle up if it falls off mid fight (because its bound to happen with slimes). The slimes also pulse aoe damage and when they land deal damage in a small area with rather non threatening melee damage. If you're getting hit constantly by slime spawns without cooldowns up that may be why you're getting gibbed.

    Could you clarify what exactly's happening to you?

    Also Glyphed Guard, its your best friend for your fight as was previously mentioned.


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  10. #10
    I'd suggest trying to get a Keg Smash -> BoK -> Jab x2 (or Expel Harm + Jab) -> BoK as some type of opener before purifying (the physical damage on Shaman is pretty consistent so it shouldn't be too scary) so you'll end up with a decent rolling shuffle. The part about getting adds isn't really your fault; one of the other two tanks probably should have been focused on at least one add from the pull, seeing as how you had Kardris and the MT *should have* had Haromm. As said before, healers should have HoTs / shields rolling before the pull on any boss fight for any tank to alleviate some of the stress of getting active mitigation up.

    Monks are pretty damn awesome IMO, and I haven't had those problems raiding in 10HC. Try staying on top of your expel harms, chi waves, and other cool downs and you should be good!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by TechGnosis View Post
    Coming from a Guardian druid who can pull the entire group and have zero issues with taking much of any damage, to feeling like I am more squishy than my rogue who accidentally shadow-stepped into them once is a little disconcerting as a tank. Since none of my abilities generate enough combo points pre-pull to already be running shuffle as I pull, I'm stuck hoping Im faster with two buttons than the boss is with one, or praying my healers can keep me up through the spike that drops me 3/4+ of my health, or using a cooldown pre-pull.
    Am I missing something, or is that how it really is for all Brewmasters. Would explain why I never see them in LFRs. And that makes me sad, I like my monk.
    Brewmaster without buffs/debuffs going is more squishy than a rogue. Brm takes a lot more skill than the other tanks to perform at a basic level but once you get them figured out they are very powerful and a lot of fun.

    Pulls and being CCed are the two things you really have to be careful with even in content you out gear. Ask for cooldowns or use your own if you need to. It can be tempting to do something other than getting shuffle up... don't do it... just get shuffle up. Tossing out healing spheres where you are going to be standing can give you a little more padding but they won't do much.

    If there are multiple targets near each other on pull and you hit keg smash you can pretty much bet on tanking all of them for at least a few seconds until the other tanks get control.

  12. #12
    In addition to (or instead of, depending) the on-pull external, if you have an absorb healer in the group make sure they've stacked shields on you pre-pull.
    Last edited by Kitmajere; 2014-07-07 at 08:19 PM.

  13. #13
    Couldn't you use chi brew for this fight and go in with 2 chi then bok first hit?

  14. #14
    You technically could use chi brew with 2 chi and blackout kick, to get some quick threat. Also, as previously stated, you're better of tanking Haromm than Kardris. Monks excel when it comes to taking physical damage rather than magic damage.

  15. #15
    Dark Shamans I usually use Fort Brew off the pull. You really shouldn't need it again until later as the damage scales back after the beginning of the fight. You can run RJW so you can Expel Harm at 3-4 seconds on the pull timer to get 1 Chi and at 2 seconds pop RJW, roll in at "Pull Now" and Blackout Kick immediately after picking up the second Chi from RJW hitting 3 targets.

    I always tank Kardris on my Monk. Tanking Haromm is way easier but I can easily pick up and slow the adds and our other two tanks (both Prot Paladins) cannot so I just deal with it.

    The only other fight I usually pop CDs on the pull on is H-Malkorok I use Dampen Harm to soak that first hit before my Shuffle is up and the healers can get big shields on me.

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