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  1. #1
    Brewmaster Avada Kedavra's Avatar
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    [MW] Does anyone actually use Detonate Chi?

    Seems like this ability is rarely used, and am a bit curious how, being able to manually summon a sphere (helpful) was turned into this detonate chi (not helpful), made it through the ability pruning.

    or do people use this spell?
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  2. #2
    Blademaster vulena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avada Kedavra View Post
    Seems like this ability is rarely used, and am a bit curious how, being able to manually summon a sphere (helpful) was turned into this detonate chi (not helpful), made it through the ability pruning.

    or do people use this spell?
    It didn't just make it through the ability pruning, it was added DURING the pruning. Even more ridiculous.

    I've used it under ten times in my life, and they were all when I was in ChiEx Crane and a stack was moving to a new location but there were two ChiEx's worth of orbs that would have gotten wasted and I also remembered Detonate Chi existed.
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  3. #3
    it's a hps loss to use it in almost every situation.

  4. #4
    I believe it's only useful with Chi Explosion?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Geodew View Post
    More on Mastery:
    The developers seem to believe that our pickup rate is much more like 95%, according to my understanding of Celestalon’s blue post on the official forums (the one where he responded to my enormous list of MW’s problems during beta). Interestingly, even if we assume this is true, Mastery is still far away from our better stats like Crit or MS. Remove the 0.55 pickup rate multiplier from the stat weight calculation, and we get Mastery’s weight to be: 0.83521*0.6*(110/88) = 0.63. That’s only about 2/3 the value of Crit. That just goes to show just how undertuned Mastery is; it’s bad even with 100% pickup rate, which we’re not even getting close to in practical settings.

    As another side note, let us assume that the developers are using Detonate Chi every 10-15 seconds to reach these kinds of numbers with Mastery. If you’re using Detonate Chi every 15 seconds or so, since you’re spending GCDs and mana on something else every 10 GCDs, compared to not using it at all, that’s approximately a 10% HPS loss. Therefore, the healing from Detonate Chi would need to make up for that HPS loss to be worth casting. Since, at 100% pickup rate, our BiS list’s ~20% mastery only increases healing by about 0.6*20% = 12%, and supposing that using Detonate Chi increases your Mastery pickup rate from 55% to (being generous here to prove a point) 100%, using Detonate Chi will increase your healing by (1+0.12)/(1+0.55*0.12) = 5.07%, which is significantly less than the 10% HPS we lost from casting Detonate every 15 seconds. Therefore, we can probably safely say that using Detonate Chi regularly is very likely to result in a performance loss with Mastery’s current tuning.
    I wrote the above in the stat weight post in my signature, in its first incarnation (before Highmaul release). It still applies.

    Basically, re: thread title, no, except maybe once in a blue moon.
    Last edited by Geodew; 2015-05-03 at 06:31 PM.
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  6. #6
    Mechagnome Supliftz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spotnick View Post
    I believe it's only useful with Chi Explosion?
    not worth the gcd
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  7. #7
    As some1 already pointed out, if EVERYTHING is on CD and you're moving, you could potentially think about maybe clicking it.

  8. #8
    When this was first mentioned I thought it would be amazing. With how many healing spheres we used to have up and how much they used to heal for, or even with the old path of mist spitting out healing spheres, I thought it would be like a mini revival with a very short cooldown during those stacked up burst healing periods.
    But yea, its very weak atm and logs arent tracking its healing so i might click it every now and again but not every fight for sure

  9. #9
    Problem with the spell is that even if you use it with a huge amount of orbs on the ground you will literally not see your grid budge at all.

  10. #10
    Mechagnome spinandwin's Avatar
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    In mop the spheres were stronk but mechanically retarded. Now they're mechanically sound but nerfed to fucking oblivion.

    Gj

    Those sweet 1k ticks
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by spinandwin View Post
    In mop the spheres were stronk but mechanically retarded. Now they're mechanically sound but nerfed to fucking oblivion.

    Gj

    Those sweet 1k ticks
    We can blame pvp yet again for this change. Manual sphere placement in mop were great for pve as well
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  12. #12
    Dreadlord TrollShaman's Avatar
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    Almost never in a serious situation. On the initial weeks of Gruul farm I would go Crane ChiEx and detonate the spheres after a slice, instantly topping off a stack. Eventually everyone's geared enough to the point I can PoM fistweave Gruul the entire time.

  13. #13
    Mechagnome spinandwin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkm View Post
    We can blame pvp yet again for this change. Manual sphere placement in mop were great for pve as well


    Was referring to mastery. But the placable healing sphere was overpowered in PvE as well. A single target heal that does more raw HPS than a classes full raid healing isn't exactly balanced. 300-400k per second with it was a real thing, tested on malk. Obviously it was all overhealing but skada didn't read it as so


    People just didn't use it because 99% of monks were bads.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by spinandwin View Post
    People just didn't use it because 99% of monks were bads.
    ???

    I mean, it was useful in some situations, but you miss half of the orbs on a moving target just from the small amount of lag and shit, if not more than half, so not that fantastic in practice. The top parses for Mythic Malkorok also cheesed with Chi Torpedo+SCK, not Healing Sphere.
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  15. #15
    As previously mentioned, it's basically never worth it unless you have a free GCD and nothing else to hit(even just using a couple stacks of mana tea is probably more useful). HOWEVER, I have run into situations where I have a lot of orbs down from ChiEx fistweaving and people end up being low for a long time and ChiEx isn't doing enough to top them. That's the only time I've ever used Detonate Chi when it wasn't just a button to press during down time.

    For a more specific idea of what I'm talking about, I ChiEx fistweave on Oregorger because the melee are often out of LoS of the healers with our strat and I can normally keep them up with just ChiEx, Chi Burst, the orbs I generate that they run through or that expire and heal them, and occasional off healing from the other healers. On occasion that isn't enough and they'll hover at low health for awhile and I won't be able to top them quick enough without using Revival. That's the only time I've found using Detonate Chi useful. Even then it's only useful if you clearly have a lot of orbs down and you're desperate for a quick heal and don't want to Revival.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Geodew View Post
    ???

    I mean, it was useful in some situations, but you miss half of the orbs on a moving target just from the small amount of lag and shit, if not more than half, so not that fantastic in practice. The top parses for Mythic Malkorok also cheesed with Chi Torpedo+SCK, not Healing Sphere.
    I was hitting 650-700k without cheeseing torpedo and SCK. took me almost all of SOO to teach my RL to let me sit in melee D: Spheres were useful for hard tank healing during movement heavy phases or spot healing yourself while running (like from Thok). In theory though, the better computer you had the better using spheres were. They didn't break PVP per say, but the addons allowing you to autotarget orbs on top of people...that ruined them for PVP.

  17. #17
    Mechagnome spinandwin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geodew View Post
    ???

    I mean, it was useful in some situations, but you miss half of the orbs on a moving target just from the small amount of lag and shit, if not more than half, so not that fantastic in practice. The top parses for Mythic Malkorok also cheesed with Chi Torpedo+SCK, not Healing Sphere.
    I didn't say running around spamming it on every fight was normal did I? I said most people outright ignored it or didn't have it binded in PvE despite it being outright the strongest ST heal in game at the time, outside of CD's like loh.

    At the very least you used it as a self heal. But you could carry a tank through anything if they planted their feet too.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by spinandwin View Post
    I didn't say running around spamming it on every fight was normal did I? I said most people outright ignored it or didn't have it binded in PvE despite it being outright the strongest ST heal in game at the time, outside of CD's like loh.

    At the very least you used it as a self heal. But you could carry a tank through anything if they planted their feet too.
    Yea got to say, healing spheres was the best self heal in the game im sure. So easy to spam on yourself and was amazing spamming on a non moving target. Its definitely 1 of my missed abilities since the ability pruning

  19. #19
    Scarab Lord Raugnaut's Avatar
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    It would have been fantastic in MoP. But blizz nerfed the shit out of healing sphere for strange reasons, and so is now barely worth using. My tank used to pick up the green balls in MoP, now he no longer bothers.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by mjolnrik View Post
    Yea got to say, healing spheres was the best self heal in the game im sure. So easy to spam on yourself and was amazing spamming on a non moving target. Its definitely 1 of my missed abilities since the ability pruning
    My 2's arena partner ALWAYS died firstwhenever we lost because of this reason among others (roll, transc, two personals, etc). (patch 5.2)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    It would have been fantastic in MoP. But blizz nerfed the shit out of healing sphere for strange reasons, and so is now barely worth using. My tank used to pick up the green balls in MoP, now he no longer bothers.
    The fact that they increased our GCD to 1.5s means we spawn fewer orbs than we used to, as well (though this may be offset by using more ReM?). What you describe is an artifact of them increasing health pools by so much for the new healing model and to try to get rid of base resilience in PvP.
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