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  1. #1

    [GUIDE SUPPLEMENT] Geodew's Mistweaver Stat Weights [7.0]

    As most of you will know, I wrote a forum post for stat weights for WoD. This expansion, though, I've switched to a spreadsheet. It's nothing revolutionary really, but I'm happy because I've been meaning to do this for a while for live servers. The new expansion gives me more motivation because I know my work will be useful for longer. The benefits of a spreadsheet include:

    - First off, a lot of data and calculations and formulas can be re-used, which means I will be doing stat weights for dungeon content this expansion, and it won't even be difficult to maintain.
    - The spreadsheet format allows for organized data layout to view all constants used in the stat weight formulas at once, and sorted by type.
    - Recalculation of stat weights based on new estimates, new rotation changes introduced by set bonuses, or my own errors is now 1000 times easier, allowing me to make changes faster and with less effort.
    - I should now be able to provide stat weights for new tiers in a matter of days instead of weeks.
    - Probably the biggest advantage is that the weights are now user-configurable. What does this mean?
    --- Plug in your own stats so you can see the best upgrades for you, at least in the short term. (No more cumbersome recalculating weights based on the new BiS every tier, and can also quickly be configured for scaled-down content. I will still be updating the gear defaults with BiS values so you can see what to ultimately aim for.)
    --- LFR, Normal, or Heroic raider? No problem, just change the raid size constant from 20 to whatever you want.
    --- Want to prioritize DPS or burst healing a little bit more? Tweak the "Value" constants (but I'd appreciate if you explain why here on the forums, so the spreadsheet defaults can reflect the community consensus).
    --- Concerned an estimation is a bit off? Tweak the estimate and see how weights change, so you can share any alarming results with the community.
    --- Plug in healing composition data pulled from your own parses to get precise stat weights for a specific boss encounter and your own healing style.

    So anyway you're probably just dying for a link at this point:

    LINK TO WEIGHTS

    and a link to a blog post regarding the derivation of the formulas:

    LINK TO FORMULA EXPLANATIONS

    More detail on the formula explanations is coming later on the order of my WoD post; the above is just a quick summary.

    P.S. Based on feedback I received from the last set of weights, this will now be its own thread for discussion specific to stat weights.
    Legion 7.0.3 Mistweaver Stat Weights SPREADSHEET --- Stat weights DISCUSSION THREAD
    Follow @GeodewMW for off-topic funsies and notifications for important MW theorycrafting posts!
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  2. #2
    Epic! Volibear's Avatar
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    Marry me, Geodew.
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    Brolibear!
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  3. #3
    Field Marshal Kers's Avatar
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    Can I borrow some of your brain?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Bootybear View Post
    Marry me, Geodew.
    ilu2
    Quote Originally Posted by Kers View Post
    Can I borrow some of your brain?
    I used to do paid math tutoring, actually. And I helped my guildie with Calculus once for 10k gold per hour. Haha
    ------------
    BTW This is obviously unfinished (at the time of this post), but about as good as I can do so far for the raiding part. The rotational analysis parts used for Haste and Mp5/Spirit will almost surely need editing once we can try the class for real. Also, it still uses max mana and stat costs for Lv100. For now this is just ballpark.
    Last edited by Geodew; 2016-08-18 at 03:57 PM.
    Legion 7.0.3 Mistweaver Stat Weights SPREADSHEET --- Stat weights DISCUSSION THREAD
    Follow @GeodewMW for off-topic funsies and notifications for important MW theorycrafting posts!
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  5. #5
    Epic! Volibear's Avatar
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    Damnit, link 2 killed me.
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    Brolibear!
    Quote Originally Posted by RICH816 View Post
    Ladies know and love his caaaaaause! It is the Panda with the Chainsaw claaaaaws!

  6. #6
    Field Marshal Kers's Avatar
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    In all seriousness thanks and keep up the good work. It will help majorly when "learning our new healing spec" in Legion ^^

    That.... and praying for beta.

  7. #7
    Mechagnome cqwrteur's Avatar
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    Last edited by cqwrteur; 2015-12-02 at 09:57 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    For example, instead of "Mistweavers do not have enough u******", you should say "Mistweavers do not have a reason to be brought to raids over other healers".
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    that being said, i rerolled to holy paladin.
    Geodew's Mistweaver Stat Weights [7.0] -- ControlPanel Addon

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    Moderator Babylonius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geodew View Post
    LINK TO FORMULA EXPLANATIONS

    More detail on the formula explanations is coming later on the order of my WoD post; the above is just a quick summary.
    Top notch explanation. It really clears things up for those of us who do not MW.
    Author and Creator of WalkingTheWind.com | Moderator of MMOChampion | Admin/Moderator of ChiBurst and Monk Discord
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Geodew View Post
    ilu2

    I used to do paid math tutoring, actually. And I helped my guildie with Calculus once for 10k gold per hour. Haha
    ------------
    BTW This is obviously unfinished, but about as good as I can do so far for the raiding part. The rotational analysis parts used for Haste and Mp5/Spirit will almost surely need editing once we can try the class for real. Also, it still uses max mana and stat costs for Lv100. For now this is just ballpark.
    for the uninformed can you explain mana cap? I figured haste would be our god stat since it affects everything now.

  10. #10
    Looking good

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by shammypie View Post
    for the uninformed can you explain mana cap? I figured haste would be our god stat since it affects everything now.
    Well like I said, more explanation is coming later, but mana cap is explained in the old post:

    Mana cap definition: In this context, being exactly at the mana cap implies that one could freely spam the most expensive, effective, highest-HPS spells for any current given situation for the entire fight without ever running out of mana until the end of the fight (i.e. end the fight with about 0 mana left including 0 Mana Tea stacks [or more]).
    Basically, if you're above the mana cap, you don't need to factor in the fact that Haste makes you spend x% extra mana. The fact that it makes you spend extra mana severely detracts from its value otherwise; as a result, 1% Haste doesn't even give 1% extra healing because you actually have a fixed amount of total mana, and Haste just lets you distribute that mana into more mana-efficient spells by casting faster.

    You can see individual Haste Value contributions on the Intermediates tab.
    Legion 7.0.3 Mistweaver Stat Weights SPREADSHEET --- Stat weights DISCUSSION THREAD
    Follow @GeodewMW for off-topic funsies and notifications for important MW theorycrafting posts!
    IF WE MISS YOUR QUESTION, please ask again! You're not being annoying, I promise

  12. #12
    Mechagnome cqwrteur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geodew View Post
    Well like I said, more explanation is coming later, but mana cap is explained in the old post:



    Basically, if you're above the mana cap, you don't need to factor in the fact that Haste makes you spend x% extra mana. The fact that it makes you spend extra mana severely detracts from its value otherwise; as a result, 1% Haste doesn't even give 1% extra healing because you actually have a fixed amount of total mana, and Haste just lets you distribute that mana into more mana-efficient spells by casting faster.

    You can see individual Haste Value contributions on the Intermediates tab.
    Don't forget our new talent mana tea will reduce the lose of haste value below mana cap.
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    For example, instead of "Mistweavers do not have enough u******", you should say "Mistweavers do not have a reason to be brought to raids over other healers".
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    that being said, i rerolled to holy paladin.
    Geodew's Mistweaver Stat Weights [7.0] -- ControlPanel Addon

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Geodew View Post
    Well like I said, more explanation is coming later, but mana cap is explained in the old post:

    Basically, if you're above the mana cap, you don't need to factor in the fact that Haste makes you spend x% extra mana. The fact that it makes you spend extra mana severely detracts from its value otherwise; as a result, 1% Haste doesn't even give 1% extra healing because you actually have a fixed amount of total mana, and Haste just lets you distribute that mana into more mana-efficient spells by casting faster.

    You can see individual Haste Value contributions on the Intermediates tab.
    ah i see sorry i have been gone for a while and haven't mained my monk in a while. I know you have a gear calculator but wouldn't it worthwhile to have a value set somewhere in the middle of mana cap at where you can cast efficient healing non stop and high hps spells occasionally or the point where you can spam vivify for example? There is a huge discrepancy in stat weights with haste that makes me curious.

    Secondly there are a lot of new sources of healing affected by haste that aren't considered yet in your calculations (or least from what I'm reading i can't access youtube at work). This isn't your fault I don't think the artifact weapon trees have been up for very long but i have been dead for like a week. Also we haven't got any numbers so it's all guess work anyway. But if your like me you make up realistic values and plug them in to get an idea.

    Anyway I apologize if I cover anything you already have I can only really go by what I'm reading. Your calculations are very impressive and I thank you for your work.

    Also some random constructive criticism please don't hate
    1. Calculation coloring is hard to detect i suggest using a more bold filler color or if you like use the preset calculation style in excel. (helps the colorblind). This mostly applies to your truths tab and value tab.

    2. Spells Tab. Something I usually keep going for myself but one thing I have found handy is to have a page that will give you the base healing of all your spells with your current stats with potential procs/additional healing in the different columns.

    3. Haste affected abilities to consider:
    Blessing of Yu'lon: Revival hot over 6 secs.
    Mists of Sheilun: each heal has an X% chance to proc increasing all hots healing by 10% so multiple value although relatively small and rng in nature
    Shaohao's Mist of Wisdom: Another proc hot with tics every 5 sec for 10, so guessing 3 ticks base. Still interacts with Sheilun.
    Celestial Breath: I believe it works similar to the current talent Breath of Yulon except for only 5 secs. Either way another hot for free when you use TFT.
    Tier 90 Talents: While choice will vary and affect the value considerably depending on which you choose, I can't help to think haste will affect all 3 since RFJ and Soothing are all hots. Chi-Ji is still out for debate whether it will benefit from our haste or not. If it does that's essentially another huge hot for the raid.
    Soothing Mist: Kind of fits with what I was talking about earlier. Essentially it's a free hot fueled by doing nothing for free fill work but something to consider in a realistic raid environment (aka not tier 3 mana capped).

  14. #14
    Talents and artifact traits are just NYI, not forgotten. They also need to be toggleable.

    SooM is not a HoT in the traditional sense. HoTs which need special consideration for Haste are those with increased healing per GCD and also a decreased GCD duration. SooM has only the latter.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by shammypie View Post
    1. Calculation coloring is hard to detect i suggest using a more bold filler color or if you like use the preset calculation style in excel. (helps the colorblind). This mostly applies to your truths tab and value tab.

    2. Spells Tab. Something I usually keep going for myself but one thing I have found handy is to have a page that will give you the base healing of all your spells with your current stats with potential procs/additional healing in the different columns.
    Feedback is more than welcome.

    Re 1: I'm not sure I understand. Can you elaborate what the issue is? The colors seem fine on my computer. Is it just red/green colorblindness? Keep in mind that it helps readability to have high contrast between text and background colors, which is why I selected light-colored backgrounds with black text.

    Re 2: While handy, isn't that beyond the scope of the spreadsheet for now? It sounds like you're asking for something like HealerCalcs, which I'll probably also be maintaining for Legion in place of Hamlet, but have not begun updating yet.
    Legion 7.0.3 Mistweaver Stat Weights SPREADSHEET --- Stat weights DISCUSSION THREAD
    Follow @GeodewMW for off-topic funsies and notifications for important MW theorycrafting posts!
    IF WE MISS YOUR QUESTION, please ask again! You're not being annoying, I promise

  15. #15
    Dreadlord Moxal's Avatar
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    Very cool, thanks for doing this!
    Healing Priest // Mistweaver Monk

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Moxal View Post
    Very cool, thanks for doing this!
    You're welcome! If people didn't appreciate it, I wouldn't share it :P

    -----------------
    Updated for Legion Beta Patch - Build 20773. SEE HOW FAST THAT WAS I AM EXCITEMENTZ
    (Mana value up, Haste value down)

    Vivify procs formula may need editing now. We may be spending a large majority of them now instead of primarily spamming EF. However, not a big deal atm since it comprises ~0.5% of Haste's value.
    Legion 7.0.3 Mistweaver Stat Weights SPREADSHEET --- Stat weights DISCUSSION THREAD
    Follow @GeodewMW for off-topic funsies and notifications for important MW theorycrafting posts!
    IF WE MISS YOUR QUESTION, please ask again! You're not being annoying, I promise

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Geodew View Post
    Talents and artifact traits are just NYI, not forgotten. They also need to be toggleable.

    SooM is not a HoT in the traditional sense. HoTs which need special consideration for Haste are those with increased healing per GCD and also a decreased GCD duration. SooM has only the latter.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Feedback is more than welcome.

    Re 1: I'm not sure I understand. Can you elaborate what the issue is? The colors seem fine on my computer. Is it just red/green colorblindness? Keep in mind that it helps readability to have high contrast between text and background colors, which is why I selected light-colored backgrounds with black text.

    Re 2: While handy, isn't that beyond the scope of the spreadsheet for now? It sounds like you're asking for something like HealerCalcs, which I'll probably also be maintaining for Legion in place of Hamlet, but have not begun updating yet.
    sorry when i downloaded it defaulted your calculation boxes as light gray i think it's excel version compatibility thing. Also yeah beyond scope. I have been away for a while so a lot of my old resources are dead along with a lot of people i used to play with (no relation). Anyway I only did the math on monks when they first came out and the rest I kept my own and never needed outside sources. So now that i am switching over i am looking at all the sources out there critically since i don't know those people and don't know what kind of math or justifications people use. You would be surprised the number of healers i used to have to coach back in the day. Wow do i really sound that old?

    TLR sucks coming back after year long breaks


    P.S Edit
    Actually now that i think of it an updated spell list is going to be a requirement in the new stat weights for legion with the core mechanics of the class changing we'll need an updated list to figure out which spells we will be using throughout the different levels of the expansion (gear wise).
    Last edited by shammypie; 2015-12-03 at 02:18 PM.

  18. #18
    Don't do math too hard, you could end up like Celestalon, be hired by Blizzard and hated by everybody
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Spotnick View Post
    Don't do math too hard, you could end up like Celestalon, be hired by Blizzard and hated by everybody
    at least he gets good stuff

  20. #20
    Nice, thanks a lot for your work !

    I will try to look a bit further into it later.

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