Why do hunters have such horrible rotations? (Survival)

[Deleted]

Doing surv wrong then .

I don't really know. After some days of kills it seems like bosses aren't that pet unfriendly and BM is getting higher DPS at the moment.

[Deleted]

I use thrill of the hunt partialy for that reason. It makes one less mini-cooldown to fit into the rotation, and don't mind much about focus management. Also, since i'm not using much cobra shots, i'm much much more mobile so another thing to not worry about (movement and positioning).

Also, i macro Glaive with arcane shot. It's not optimal ofc, but it's one less button. Since you are mashing arcane shot button anyways due to TOTH, works OK.


So 3 things here less to worry about: movement, focus management and 2 mini-cooldowns.

Sure it's not min/max perfect hard-core gameplay dps, but then again nor am I.

[Valerossi]

Doing surv wrong then .

Your constant epeen flexing is getting a bit tiresome, especially coming from a moderator.

[Dracodraco]

I don't really know. After some days of kills it seems like bosses aren't that pet unfriendly and BM is getting higher DPS at the moment.

Bosses aren't unfriendly. Anyone can smash a target without knowing mechanics of the fight and gain high DPS.
*Mechanics* are unfriendly, and if you want to compete with surv DPS while performing for your raid, you're in the top 1%.
The main reason you're starting to see BM hunters pick up, is because every single high-end player is attempting to use it this week to get a feel for how the spec performs. It's the same as it's always been in the past -if the majority of the "good" playerbase uses one spec, because it's supposedly better, people will think that an equal spec will be worse, just because the playerbase that uses THAT spec are "bad", and thus the results aquired from that spec are worse. Then one of the good players changes, and roflstomps everything.

Your constant epeen flexing is getting a bit tiresome, especially coming from a moderator.

Sorry, I'm afraid that the volunteering moderators does not sign a contract binding us to lay down and take whatever comes our way. I'll stand up for my opinions as long as I can defend them. Feel free to prove me wrong, though, thats the entire point of a competive community. It's not like I'll dismiss evidence that I'm wrong as magic, and keep on saying the same thing.

[Deleted]

Bosses aren't unfriendly. Anyone can smash a target without knowing mechanics of the fight and gain high DPS.
*Mechanics* are unfriendly, and if you want to compete with surv DPS while performing for your raid, you're in the top 1%.
The main reason you're starting to see BM hunters pick up, is because every single high-end player is attempting to use it this week to get a feel for how the spec performs. It's the same as it's always been in the past -if the majority of the "good" playerbase uses one spec, because it's supposedly better, people will think that an equal spec will be worse, just because the playerbase that uses THAT spec are "bad", and thus the results aquired from that spec are worse. Then one of the good players changes, and roflstomps everything.

We could argue about semantics but that would be a waste of time for everyone. I would like to know what "high-end player" means to you but I'm almost sure you are not right and in fact there are top players raiding as survival. I'm referring to DPS parses to say that nearly every boss is being dominated by BM and that's why I think it's superior DPS-wise nowadays, even if not by a lot.

Now, you could say we are not playing survival right and you might be right. But according to worldoflogs BM gets better results on those specific bosses. That's a fact.

[Djaye]

dire beast is a severely lesser choice come actually raiding time. thrill beats it out by miles. dire beast is a decent dmg/focus cd at best. thrill of the hunt allows you to stay mobile and keep your target swap dps high. Look at what specs the top tier hunters are using, you will not see dire beast in many/any of them. stand alone/single target burst fights as BM are the only times dire beast will turn better results.

[Saffa]

Blizz do not like hunters ^^.

On a lighter note - have you seen hunter loom pants? Cant transmog till 40 because if you try mail it says it can't - as its leather - if you try leather - it says it can cos it (will be) mail ^^


Blizz do not like hunters ^^.

[Djaye]

I just switched to beastmaster last night, and i have to say it's alot more powerful. I always preferd survival since wotlk released, but beastmaster is head and shoulders above survival atm.

i wouldn't say head and shoulders. surv is favoring any fight with a 'burst down multiple adds phase', and BM is favoring single target burst fights. they are pretty close over all with each shining most in their respective areas (single target and aoe). depending on how each's dmg scales with gear over the tier will decide which is more of an overall go-to spec for dps.

i'm playing BM since it has not been relevant since beginning of wrath. need to enjoy the flavor before someone comes along and nerfs us into the ground. again...

and really, surv is just the 'arcane' spec for hunters. very very easy, very very boring. But performs at top lvl's. this is why Surv will be the most popular spec until they look at MM again. which is simply in a state of rotation hell right now *change improved steady shot to increase your haste per application of steady, up to a stack of 5. similar to frenzy for BM).

[Illana]

survival and BM are not that far apart in single target and survival wipes the floor with BM on anything with aoe.

Plus survival has much better "effective" DPS since target switching is simple and smooth whereas with BM you either leave your pet on main target or lose damage switching targets.

[Dafft]

i dropped direbeast for Thrill of the Hunt

it worked better for me with the keybinds i was used too and the already extra ones i had.
though i must admit that at some points i need too remind myself too cast a cobra shot cause else serpent sting falls of between all the free shots im able too shoot

I'm using TotH too & noticed the same issue, sometimes a good string of procs made my SrS fall off.
I try to counter it by the following:

1) If less than 2sec left on SrS & zero focus -> cobra shot
2) if less than 2sec & enough focus for multishot -> multishot

[Thelxi]

Hunters and especially BM, are by far the most severe victims to skill bloating right now. Readiness doubling the effort is the cherry on a very awkward cake really.

[Illana]

I'm using TotH too & noticed the same issue, sometimes a good string of procs made my SrS fall off.
I try to counter it by the following:

1) If less than 2sec left on SrS & zero focus -> cobra shot
2) if less than 2sec & enough focus for multishot -> multishot

why not just.......use serpent sting to reapply it?

[Deleted]

Your constant epeen flexing is getting a bit tiresome, especially coming from a moderator.

I guess you missed the times where he helps people as well? Seeing as his "epeen" is what makes him able too do so, for being both in a top guild so he can give fight to fight tips and also tips on dps since he is a player getting high ranks very often and without anything special being feed to him.

OT though, when MoP hit I thought we had a LOT of abilities and it took a little while to get used to coming from cata where we had about 3 buttons to press but it feels quite good now and starts too become 2nd nature again.

---------- Post added 2012-10-08 at 01:51 AM ----------

why not just.......use serpent sting to reapply it?

TotH proc = MS costing 20 focus, it does the ISS damage, MS damage and it applies the debuff at full duration.

[Illana]

True, but will only be when you have toth up though. Also not sure whether or not it would be better to hold onto that proc for Arcane shots but i don't see using multi-shot to apply serpent sting under any condition to be an intended DPS increase if it is one at all.

[Deleted]

True, but will only be when you have toth up though. Also not sure whether or not it would be better to hold onto that proc for Arcane shots but i don't see using multi-shot to apply serpent sting under any condition to be an intended DPS increase if it is one at all.

If SS will drop, MS > AS. If not, AS > MS.

And you shouldn't hold on too it.

[Illana]

the question was if SrS is about to drop:

MS <OR> SrS with one more toth proc to use on AS.

[Dafft]

It's just the way I'm coping with SrS expiring in the instance of back to back procs from TotH & LnL.

Using Averages from 6 random hunters in MV:-

Arc. hits for 25504 & Crits for 53903
MS hits for 6412 & Crit 13005
ISS hits for 13635 & Crits for 28496

Using the TotH charge for MS could result in less damage than using it for AS but then there could be times where using MS may be beneficial as you get the full duration rather than 6sec

[Illana]

or you could get the full duration by just reapplying serpent sting and not using up a charge of toth for an average of about 8k multishot damage and save it for arcane shot

[lolipopp]

The question is why TotH sims like 3000dps more then Dire Beast for me using FD (Surv. ilvl473 http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Iskren/simple)
I think someone in this tread said those "FREE"arcane shots are not so free and Cobra shots hits close to what Arcane shot dmg does ...but this is BS because arcane hit so much harder and faster(1 gcd vs ~1.8sec CS).
Also Lynx Rush seams to be the best dps option (by a lot) ...i am confused .

[Illana]

i like lynx cause u can use it under stacked cds much easier as a 4 second attack rather than amoc which is over 30 seconds and better than blink strike because it leaves u more globals for ES