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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Fruits are full of sugar, which according to Taubes promote an insulin response that causes weight gain.

    Try having some bacon or ham instead.
    yes and no.
    Fruits contain macro-molecules of sugar. that and the fibers makes them usually slower to digest, which doesn't provoke a high insulin response.
    Refine food goes too fast into the blood stream and provoke this insulin response, which is anabolic. This is why you gain more weight.

    What you said overall is right. Potatoes, if eaten alone, would provide you with energy QUICKER than plain sugar. Same with white bread and most rises. That's why you need to eat a balance meal everytime. it will slowdown the carb absorption, and also makes you want to eat less.

    That's a normal diet if you want to do any bodybuilding btw. Nothing new.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Ret was broken. If you don’t see eye to eye with us on that, then it’s understandable why the degree of change might be surprising to you
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  2. #42
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uzi View Post
    Yes. Fruit is full of sugar. Full of natural sugar that humans have eaten for millenia.

    Also, I am no nutritiologist (is this a word?), but the general consensus is that white bread is bad, while dark bread is pretty cool.

    EDIT: All in all, I think most people should cut soda, and not fruit. They should cut pizza, and not bread. Etc.
    Try reading Why We Get Fat, it explains why fruit isn't as good as conventional wisdom states.

    Funny fact, the sugar in soda is the same sugar in fruit. Fructose.

    And pizza is better for you than plain bread because it has higher levels of saturated fat and protein.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Uzi View Post
    Yes. Fruit is full of sugar. Full of natural sugar that humans have eaten for millenia.

    Also, I am no nutritiologist (is this a word?), but the general consensus is that white bread is bad, while dark bread is pretty cool.
    dark bread contains more fibers from the cereals, hence, reduce its GI (glycemic index), meaning you will need a longer time to digest it. This is why it's healthier.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Ret was broken. If you don’t see eye to eye with us on that, then it’s understandable why the degree of change might be surprising to you
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragingsoul View Post
    dark bread contains more fibers from the cereals, hence, reduce its GI (glycemic index), meaning you will need a longer time to digest it. This is why it's healthier.
    It also contains more protein than white bread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Try reading Why We Get Fat, it explains why fruit isn't as good as conventional wisdom states.

    Funny fact, the sugar in soda is the same sugar in fruit. Fructose.

    And pizza is better for you than plain bread because it has higher levels of saturated fat and protein.
    haha, sorry man, but nope.

    This is a commun mistake. Fructose you see in sodas ISN'T natural.
    it is absolutely NOT the same as the one you get in your fruits, even if they name makes it this so. I'll try to get you a link if you want.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Ret was broken. If you don’t see eye to eye with us on that, then it’s understandable why the degree of change might be surprising to you
    i7 920@ 3.4Ghz, Gigabyte X58A-UD7, 6GB Ram Triple Channel OCZ @ 1900Mhz, CrossFire HD 5850 1Gb, Vertex 3 240Gb, BenQ M2700HD. G15 Keyboard

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by FathomFear View Post
    The goal of a diet should be health. It something causes you to lose weight it should not be deemed healthy for that reason only. While it's healthy to be at an acceptable weight, it needs to be done in the right way.

    I'm extremely skeptical of any diet that recommends limiting the intake of fruit, considering the overwhelming amount of evidence that shows how healthy fruit is for us. I do agree that cereals/breads/etc are complete trash, though. They're basically empty calories.

    If you're interesting in reading about a variation of the approach you recommended--where fruits/veggies are encouraged in unlimited quantities with breads/cereals/etc are discouraged due to low nutrient density, I'd recommend "Eat to Live" by Joel Fuhrman (http://www.drfuhrman.com/shop/ETLBook.aspx). "The China Study" is also excellent: http://www.thechinastudy.com/[COLOR="red"]
    I was skeptical of Atkins-type diets too, but Taubes gives a huge body of scientific evidence that counters the conventional wisdom of current nutrition.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  7. #47
    I will say this much - I can't believe what a super food oatmeal is. While just about everything I eat effects my bloodsugar badly - oatmeal never does, it stabalizes it and keeps me going for hours.
    My suggestion everyone needs to eat more oatmeal. <- not the prepackages overly sugared up kind, I mean plain oatmeal - if you need something sweet add something to it like raisins

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragingsoul View Post
    haha, sorry man, but nope.

    This is a commun mistake. Fructose you see in sodas ISN'T natural.
    it is absolutely NOT the same as the one you get in your fruits, even if they name makes it this so. I'll try to get you a link if you want.
    Right, fructose derived from corn isn't natural, apparently.

    And chemically it is exactly the same substance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  9. #49
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    Don't forget that pretty much every single food in the US is pumped full of corn syrup (which is probably the worst source of sugar possible). That changes quite a lot for a healthy diet compared to other countries.
    Portions sizes are a problem too, but I guess if you're counting calories and carbs you shouldn't have that issue.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by ichime View Post
    Don't forget that pretty much every single food in the US is pumped full of corn syrup (which is probably the worst source of sugar possible). That changes quite a lot for a healthy diet compared to other countries.
    Portions sizes are a problem too, but I guess if you're counting calories and carbs you shouldn't have that issue.
    Yeah, Americans tend to have very large portions.

    Still, I am losing weight and neither calorie counting nor exercising.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morsker View Post
    Saturated fat causes heart disease. When these new diets tell you to replace refined carbohydrates in your diet, they aren't inviting you to replace them with saturated fat.
    Which is exactly why my blood pressure and cholesterol have gone down since starting this diet? As was mentioned earlier in the thread, the notion that saturated fat causes heart disease conflicts with evidence given by a large number of diets which include high (as high as 40%) levels of saturated fat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by ichime View Post
    Don't forget that pretty much every single food in the US is pumped full of corn syrup...
    That's news to me.

    Edit: I have four samples of "junk" food sitting to my left. None of them use any kind of corn syrup. Triscuits: wheat, oil, salt. Nuts: Nuts, oil, salt. Cheese spread: red pepper, feta cheese, cream cheese, garlic, mint, lemon juice. Even the can of Red Bull says it uses glucose and sucrose rather than high fructose corn syrup.
    Last edited by belfpala; 2012-10-07 at 05:34 PM.

    Let's all ride the Gish gallop.

  13. #53
    All "natural" sugars contain some mix of glucose, sucrose, and fructose. Honey, for example, is considered a healthy sweetener, but it's very high in fructose.

    (I'm not saying soda is good for you; just saying fructose isn't the devil).

    Let's all ride the Gish gallop.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    Human metabolism is extremely complex and can be varied by a number of factors. In this situation, the lack of carbohydrates is believed to stimulate the body to burn through adipose tissue more quickly to make up for the energy loss, sort of like a controlled starvation method. Just because lack of carbs can cause weight loss does not mean that too much carbs is the cause for weight gain; its just how the complex feedback systems work in the body. There are also other ways to lose weight; if his theory was correct, than statins would not work. Theory is nice and all, but application shows the true importance of medical science.

    The formation of "modern carbs" is also a ridiculous concept. The source of the carbohydrates does not matter when compared to the carbohydrates themselves; they are independent. And if you want to disagree with me on this, well... nature has multiple methods to get the same substances into your body, does it not? Or is vitamin A from butter different from vitamin A from green veggies?

    One warning to people who take this to an extreme: watch your blood pH. Acidosis can be pretty common for those who overuse this diet.
    This poster understands nutrition better than most in this thread. No carb and low carb diets are a fad, a creation to generate money, sure they have some pretty common sense information in them, but ultimately are not good diets. A balanced diet not exceeding your daily caloric needs using a wide variety of healthy foods (including carbs) combined with regular exercise is absolutely the healthiest approach to living.

    Ultimately weight loss (not health) does all boil down to calories in vs calories out. The human body is a machine, you put energy into the machine (calories) and the machine functions. If you don't put enough calories into the machine, it HAS to get it's energy needs from somewhere or die. It WILL pull that energy from your fat stores or break it down from your muscles (typically fat stores primarily, muscle secondarily, because your body loves to maintain balance). A huge reason that low carb/no carb diets get such great weight loss results is because attempting to get all your caloric needs from fat and protein is typically difficult for the average person. I guarantee that if you are a 70kg 175cm male doing no daily exercise, eating 3000 calories daily of Protein and Fat, you WILL gain weight. (unless of course you have some freakish abnormal metabolism disorder)

  15. #55
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uzi View Post
    No it isn't the same. There's many things science doesn't understand yet, and nutrition is among those very conflicting fields.

    Fact is, eating a naturally produced fruit is always better than eating something which contains the same kind of sugar, but artificially acquired (even if it's from corn, you don't know how they extract it or what other substances they put in it.).

    There's something about fruit that makes it better than soda. I can't tell you what's the magic in there, but it's true.
    Yes, it is exactly the same. C6H12O6 in fruit is the same C6H12O6 that is in corn syrup.

    And yes, I do in fact know how they extract HFCS from corn, and I know quite well what they 'put in it'.

    Please study some basic chemistry before posting this sort of stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Uzi View Post
    There's something about fruit that makes it better than soda. I can't tell you what's the magic in there, but it's true.
    There are a lot of very healthy micro nutrients on the skins of most fruits. Always eat the skin.

    To those of you saying fruit is bad for you, you really really need to actually do your research. There are tons and tons of nutrients in many fruits and berries that make them exceptionally good for you. I'll just take one example out of hundreds, Kiwi fruit

    Kiwifruit is a rich source of vitamin C, 1.5 times the DRI scale in the U.S. per 100 grams. Its potassium content by weight is slightly less than that of a banana. It also contains vitamin E,[15] and a small amount of vitamin A.[15][16] The skin is a good source of flavonoid antioxidants (though it may also retain agricultural pesticides[17]). The kiwifruit seed oil contains on average 62% alpha-linolenic acid, an omega-3 fatty acid.[18] Usually a medium size kiwifruit contains about 46 calories,[19] 0.3 g fat, 1 g protein, 11 g carbohydrates, and 2.6 g dietary fiber found partly in the edible skin.[20] Kiwifruit is often reported to have mild laxative effects, due to its significant levels of dietary fiber.

    if you actually know anything REAL about nutrition you would know that fruits are f*cking awesome for you. PLEASE stop spreading crappy fad diet disinformation.
    Last edited by Beat5beat; 2012-10-07 at 06:08 PM. Reason: added fruit info

  17. #57
    I wanna try this diet for a week or two, just to lose a few pounds that I've been trying to get rid of. So no carbs at all? Does this include (and I feel stupid asking) corn tortillas? I can only drink water?
    Why am I back here, I don't even play these games anymore

    The problem with the internet is parallel to its greatest achievement: it has given the little man an outlet where he can be heard. Most of the time however, the little man is a little man because he is not worth hearing.

  18. #58
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zurtle View Post
    This poster understands nutrition better than most in this thread. No carb and low carb diets are a fad, a creation to generate money, sure they have some pretty common sense information in them, but ultimately are not good diets. A balanced diet not exceeding your daily caloric needs using a wide variety of healthy foods (including carbs) combined with regular exercise is absolutely the healthiest approach to living.

    Ultimately weight loss (not health) does all boil down to calories in vs calories out. The human body is a machine, you put energy into the machine (calories) and the machine functions. If you don't put enough calories into the machine, it HAS to get it's energy needs from somewhere or die. It WILL pull that energy from your fat stores or break it down from your muscles (typically fat stores primarily, muscle secondarily, because your body loves to maintain balance). A huge reason that low carb/no carb diets get such great weight loss results is because attempting to get all your caloric needs from fat and protein is typically difficult for the average person. I guarantee that if you are a 70kg 175cm male doing no daily exercise, eating 3000 calories daily of Protein and Fat, you WILL gain weight. (unless of course you have some freakish abnormal metabolism disorder)
    I am 5'9 and currently 181lbs, formerly 187lbs. I do no daily exercise, and have more than 3000 calories in protein and fat. I have normal blood pressure and excellent cholesterol. And, I am still losing weight.

    There is a significant body of evidence that indicates calorie-in calorie-out diets are not effective. Try reading one of Taubes' books; hell, even Atkins was on to something.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-07 at 11:05 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    I wanna try this diet for a week or two, just to lose a few pounds that I've been trying to get rid of. So no carbs at all? Does this include (and I feel stupid asking) corn tortillas? I can only drink water?
    I suggest buying Taubes' book, he lists the various foods you should cut when endeavouring on a low-carb diet.

    And corn is one of the worst crops you can have, aside from potatoes.

    EDIT: Tea, red wine, coffee with cream, and Mexican sodas are all good.
    Last edited by Elegiac; 2012-10-07 at 06:07 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Zurtle View Post
    Kiwifruit is a rich source of vitamin C, 1.5 times the DRI scale in the U.S. per 100 grams.
    Then I should just nom on chile peppers and get even more bang (literally!) for the buck. 144 mg per 100g compared to 93 mg per 100g of kiwi. :P

    Let's all ride the Gish gallop.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    I am 5'9 and currently 181lbs, formerly 187lbs. I do no daily exercise, and have more than 3000 calories in protein and fat. I have normal blood pressure and excellent cholesterol. And, I am still losing weight.
    Either you don't know your daily calorie expenditure, are miscounting your actual intake or your body is incapable of processing the levels of protein and fat that you are feeding it. One or more of those 3 things is a fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    There is a significant body of evidence that indicates calorie-in calorie-out diets are not effective. Try reading one of Taubes' books; hell, even Atkins was on to something.
    There is zero evidence indicating that calorie-in calorie-out diets are ineffective. Every single time it has been tested, it has been proven, Remember the twinkie diet?

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