A Little Nutritional Anecdote

[vizzle]

The only thing I can imagine without rice/bread/pasta is an omelette... and even then, I usually eat that with toast bread. I guess I'll be omeletting from now on.

[FathomFear]

So recently I read a -very- interesting book entitled We Get Fat: And What to Do About It by Gary Taubes. His theory about weight gain is that caloric surplus is not the correct reason for gaining weight; the problem is that the modern diet includes a surplus of refined carbohydrates, hence the obesity epidemic in America. According to Taubes, losing weight is as simple as a few nutritional modifications in the form of limiting the intake of sugar, cereals, and fruit. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm comfortable with my weight - but almost everyone has a few pounds they would like to shed. In the vein of empiricism and the Mount Everest mentality, I decided to follow his advice.

So I started cutting out his no-no foods for the most part. I stopped drinking juice or eating fruit related products, switched from milk to cream, stopped buying light butter, stopped eating bread, and portion controlled my amount of rice, pasta, and potatoes. In turn, I increased the amount of red meat and green vegetables I eat, and have started supplementing my diet with things like protein shakes.

Two weeks later, with no exercise to speak of, I have dropped six pounds and am feeling fantastic. Perhaps Atkins was right - either that or it's the world's greatest placebo. I highly recommend Taubes' book, if only to expand your repertoire of nutritional information. And for those of you seeking to drop a pound or two, perhaps it is worth a try.

The goal of a diet should be health. It something causes you to lose weight it should not be deemed healthy for that reason only. While it's healthy to be at an acceptable weight, it needs to be done in the right way.

I'm extremely skeptical of any diet that recommends limiting the intake of fruit, considering the overwhelming amount of evidence that shows how healthy fruit is for us. I do agree that cereals/breads/etc are complete trash, though. They're basically empty calories.

If you're interesting in reading about a variation of the approach you recommended--where fruits/veggies are encouraged in unlimited quantities with breads/cereals/etc are discouraged due to low nutrient density, I'd recommend "Eat to Live" by Joel Fuhrman (http://www.drfuhrman.com/shop/ETLBook.aspx). "The China Study" is also excellent: http://www.thechinastudy.com/

---------- Post added 2012-10-07 at 02:06 PM ----------

The only thing I can imagine without rice/bread/pasta is an omelette... and even then, I usually eat that with toast bread. I guess I'll be omeletting from now on.

It's difficult to drop those foods at first. It's basically an addiction. For the last 6-7 years I've limited myself to one serving of breads a week (eg, one slide of toast, a pita for a wrap, etc). Previously I would eat these things 4-5 times a day.

Dropping these foods is a great because 1) they are not nutrient dense, which means you're not missing much by not eating them, and 2) any unneccesary weight you have will melt off.

[ragingsoul]

Fruits are full of sugar, which according to Taubes promote an insulin response that causes weight gain.

Try having some bacon or ham instead.

yes and no.
Fruits contain macro-molecules of sugar. that and the fibers makes them usually slower to digest, which doesn't provoke a high insulin response.
Refine food goes too fast into the blood stream and provoke this insulin response, which is anabolic. This is why you gain more weight.

What you said overall is right. Potatoes, if eaten alone, would provide you with energy QUICKER than plain sugar. Same with white bread and most rises. That's why you need to eat a balance meal everytime. it will slowdown the carb absorption, and also makes you want to eat less.

That's a normal diet if you want to do any bodybuilding btw. Nothing new.

[Didactic]

Yes. Fruit is full of sugar. Full of natural sugar that humans have eaten for millenia.

Also, I am no nutritiologist (is this a word?), but the general consensus is that white bread is bad, while dark bread is pretty cool.

EDIT: All in all, I think most people should cut soda, and not fruit. They should cut pizza, and not bread. Etc.

Try reading Why We Get Fat, it explains why fruit isn't as good as conventional wisdom states.

Funny fact, the sugar in soda is the same sugar in fruit. Fructose.

And pizza is better for you than plain bread because it has higher levels of saturated fat and protein.

[ragingsoul]

Yes. Fruit is full of sugar. Full of natural sugar that humans have eaten for millenia.

Also, I am no nutritiologist (is this a word?), but the general consensus is that white bread is bad, while dark bread is pretty cool.

dark bread contains more fibers from the cereals, hence, reduce its GI (glycemic index), meaning you will need a longer time to digest it. This is why it's healthier.

[Didactic]

dark bread contains more fibers from the cereals, hence, reduce its GI (glycemic index), meaning you will need a longer time to digest it. This is why it's healthier.

It also contains more protein than white bread.

[ragingsoul]

Try reading Why We Get Fat, it explains why fruit isn't as good as conventional wisdom states.

Funny fact, the sugar in soda is the same sugar in fruit. Fructose.

And pizza is better for you than plain bread because it has higher levels of saturated fat and protein.

haha, sorry man, but nope.

This is a commun mistake. Fructose you see in sodas ISN'T natural.
it is absolutely NOT the same as the one you get in your fruits, even if they name makes it this so. I'll try to get you a link if you want.

[Didactic]

The goal of a diet should be health. It something causes you to lose weight it should not be deemed healthy for that reason only. While it's healthy to be at an acceptable weight, it needs to be done in the right way.

I'm extremely skeptical of any diet that recommends limiting the intake of fruit, considering the overwhelming amount of evidence that shows how healthy fruit is for us. I do agree that cereals/breads/etc are complete trash, though. They're basically empty calories.

If you're interesting in reading about a variation of the approach you recommended--where fruits/veggies are encouraged in unlimited quantities with breads/cereals/etc are discouraged due to low nutrient density, I'd recommend "Eat to Live" by Joel Fuhrman (http://www.drfuhrman.com/shop/ETLBook.aspx). "The China Study" is also excellent: http://www.thechinastudy.com/[COLOR="red"]

I was skeptical of Atkins-type diets too, but Taubes gives a huge body of scientific evidence that counters the conventional wisdom of current nutrition.

[slime]

I will say this much - I can't believe what a super food oatmeal is. While just about everything I eat effects my bloodsugar badly - oatmeal never does, it stabalizes it and keeps me going for hours.
My suggestion everyone needs to eat more oatmeal. <- not the prepackages overly sugared up kind, I mean plain oatmeal - if you need something sweet add something to it like raisins

[Didactic]

haha, sorry man, but nope.

This is a commun mistake. Fructose you see in sodas ISN'T natural.
it is absolutely NOT the same as the one you get in your fruits, even if they name makes it this so. I'll try to get you a link if you want.

Right, fructose derived from corn isn't natural, apparently.

And chemically it is exactly the same substance.

[ichime]

Don't forget that pretty much every single food in the US is pumped full of corn syrup (which is probably the worst source of sugar possible). That changes quite a lot for a healthy diet compared to other countries.
Portions sizes are a problem too, but I guess if you're counting calories and carbs you shouldn't have that issue.

[Didactic]

Don't forget that pretty much every single food in the US is pumped full of corn syrup (which is probably the worst source of sugar possible). That changes quite a lot for a healthy diet compared to other countries.
Portions sizes are a problem too, but I guess if you're counting calories and carbs you shouldn't have that issue.

Yeah, Americans tend to have very large portions.

Still, I am losing weight and neither calorie counting nor exercising.

[Didactic]

Saturated fat causes heart disease. When these new diets tell you to replace refined carbohydrates in your diet, they aren't inviting you to replace them with saturated fat.

Which is exactly why my blood pressure and cholesterol have gone down since starting this diet? As was mentioned earlier in the thread, the notion that saturated fat causes heart disease conflicts with evidence given by a large number of diets which include high (as high as 40%) levels of saturated fat.

[belfpala]

Don't forget that pretty much every single food in the US is pumped full of corn syrup...

That's news to me.

Edit: I have four samples of "junk" food sitting to my left. None of them use any kind of corn syrup. Triscuits: wheat, oil, salt. Nuts: Nuts, oil, salt. Cheese spread: red pepper, feta cheese, cream cheese, garlic, mint, lemon juice. Even the can of Red Bull says it uses glucose and sucrose rather than high fructose corn syrup.

[Uzi]

Right, fructose derived from corn isn't natural, apparently.

And chemically it is exactly the same substance.

No it isn't the same. There's many things science doesn't understand yet, and nutrition is among those very conflicting fields.

Fact is, eating a naturally produced fruit is always better than eating something which contains the same kind of sugar, but artificially acquired (even if it's from corn, you don't know how they extract it or what other substances they put in it.).

There's something about fruit that makes it better than soda. I can't tell you what's the magic in there, but it's true.

[belfpala]

All "natural" sugars contain some mix of glucose, sucrose, and fructose. Honey, for example, is considered a healthy sweetener, but it's very high in fructose.

(I'm not saying soda is good for you; just saying fructose isn't the devil).

[Zurtle]

Human metabolism is extremely complex and can be varied by a number of factors. In this situation, the lack of carbohydrates is believed to stimulate the body to burn through adipose tissue more quickly to make up for the energy loss, sort of like a controlled starvation method. Just because lack of carbs can cause weight loss does not mean that too much carbs is the cause for weight gain; its just how the complex feedback systems work in the body. There are also other ways to lose weight; if his theory was correct, than statins would not work. Theory is nice and all, but application shows the true importance of medical science.

The formation of "modern carbs" is also a ridiculous concept. The source of the carbohydrates does not matter when compared to the carbohydrates themselves; they are independent. And if you want to disagree with me on this, well... nature has multiple methods to get the same substances into your body, does it not? Or is vitamin A from butter different from vitamin A from green veggies?

One warning to people who take this to an extreme: watch your blood pH. Acidosis can be pretty common for those who overuse this diet.

This poster understands nutrition better than most in this thread. No carb and low carb diets are a fad, a creation to generate money, sure they have some pretty common sense information in them, but ultimately are not good diets. A balanced diet not exceeding your daily caloric needs using a wide variety of healthy foods (including carbs) combined with regular exercise is absolutely the healthiest approach to living.

Ultimately weight loss (not health) does all boil down to calories in vs calories out. The human body is a machine, you put energy into the machine (calories) and the machine functions. If you don't put enough calories into the machine, it HAS to get it's energy needs from somewhere or die. It WILL pull that energy from your fat stores or break it down from your muscles (typically fat stores primarily, muscle secondarily, because your body loves to maintain balance). A huge reason that low carb/no carb diets get such great weight loss results is because attempting to get all your caloric needs from fat and protein is typically difficult for the average person. I guarantee that if you are a 70kg 175cm male doing no daily exercise, eating 3000 calories daily of Protein and Fat, you WILL gain weight. (unless of course you have some freakish abnormal metabolism disorder)

[Didactic]

No it isn't the same. There's many things science doesn't understand yet, and nutrition is among those very conflicting fields.

Fact is, eating a naturally produced fruit is always better than eating something which contains the same kind of sugar, but artificially acquired (even if it's from corn, you don't know how they extract it or what other substances they put in it.).

There's something about fruit that makes it better than soda. I can't tell you what's the magic in there, but it's true.

Yes, it is exactly the same. C6H12O6 in fruit is the same C6H12O6 that is in corn syrup.

And yes, I do in fact know how they extract HFCS from corn, and I know quite well what they 'put in it'.

Please study some basic chemistry before posting this sort of stuff.

[Zurtle]

There's something about fruit that makes it better than soda. I can't tell you what's the magic in there, but it's true.

There are a lot of very healthy micro nutrients on the skins of most fruits. Always eat the skin.

To those of you saying fruit is bad for you, you really really need to actually do your research. There are tons and tons of nutrients in many fruits and berries that make them exceptionally good for you. I'll just take one example out of hundreds, Kiwi fruit

Kiwifruit is a rich source of vitamin C, 1.5 times the DRI scale in the U.S. per 100 grams. Its potassium content by weight is slightly less than that of a banana. It also contains vitamin E,[15] and a small amount of vitamin A.[15][16] The skin is a good source of flavonoid antioxidants (though it may also retain agricultural pesticides[17]). The kiwifruit seed oil contains on average 62% alpha-linolenic acid, an omega-3 fatty acid.[18] Usually a medium size kiwifruit contains about 46 calories,[19] 0.3 g fat, 1 g protein, 11 g carbohydrates, and 2.6 g dietary fiber found partly in the edible skin.[20] Kiwifruit is often reported to have mild laxative effects, due to its significant levels of dietary fiber.

if you actually know anything REAL about nutrition you would know that fruits are f*cking awesome for you. PLEASE stop spreading crappy fad diet disinformation.

[vizzle]

I wanna try this diet for a week or two, just to lose a few pounds that I've been trying to get rid of. So no carbs at all? Does this include (and I feel stupid asking) corn tortillas? I can only drink water?