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  1. #61
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zurtle View Post
    This poster understands nutrition better than most in this thread. No carb and low carb diets are a fad, a creation to generate money, sure they have some pretty common sense information in them, but ultimately are not good diets. A balanced diet not exceeding your daily caloric needs using a wide variety of healthy foods (including carbs) combined with regular exercise is absolutely the healthiest approach to living.

    Ultimately weight loss (not health) does all boil down to calories in vs calories out. The human body is a machine, you put energy into the machine (calories) and the machine functions. If you don't put enough calories into the machine, it HAS to get it's energy needs from somewhere or die. It WILL pull that energy from your fat stores or break it down from your muscles (typically fat stores primarily, muscle secondarily, because your body loves to maintain balance). A huge reason that low carb/no carb diets get such great weight loss results is because attempting to get all your caloric needs from fat and protein is typically difficult for the average person. I guarantee that if you are a 70kg 175cm male doing no daily exercise, eating 3000 calories daily of Protein and Fat, you WILL gain weight. (unless of course you have some freakish abnormal metabolism disorder)
    I am 5'9 and currently 181lbs, formerly 187lbs. I do no daily exercise, and have more than 3000 calories in protein and fat. I have normal blood pressure and excellent cholesterol. And, I am still losing weight.

    There is a significant body of evidence that indicates calorie-in calorie-out diets are not effective. Try reading one of Taubes' books; hell, even Atkins was on to something.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-07 at 11:05 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    I wanna try this diet for a week or two, just to lose a few pounds that I've been trying to get rid of. So no carbs at all? Does this include (and I feel stupid asking) corn tortillas? I can only drink water?
    I suggest buying Taubes' book, he lists the various foods you should cut when endeavouring on a low-carb diet.

    And corn is one of the worst crops you can have, aside from potatoes.

    EDIT: Tea, red wine, coffee with cream, and Mexican sodas are all good.
    Last edited by Didactic; 2012-10-07 at 06:07 PM.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  2. #62
    The Lightbringer Uzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Yes, it is exactly the same. C6H12O6 in fruit is the same C6H12O6 that is in corn syrup.

    And yes, I do in fact know how they extract HFCS from corn, and I know quite well what they 'put in it'.

    Please study some basic chemistry before posting this sort of stuff.
    You are looking at it too simply. YOU should study some basic chemistry. Chemicals interact with each other, they interact with energy, they interact with I don't know what. It's not as simple.
    You are looking at it too "scientifically". What does common sense tell you? What is better? An apple or sugar extracted artificially from corn?
    Look up Bergson and similar philosophers, you and most of today's society should learn from him.

    And please don't tell me to "study basic chemistry" when you claim c6h12o6 is fructose. Thank you.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Zurtle View Post
    Kiwifruit is a rich source of vitamin C, 1.5 times the DRI scale in the U.S. per 100 grams.
    Then I should just nom on chile peppers and get even more bang (literally!) for the buck. 144 mg per 100g compared to 93 mg per 100g of kiwi. :P
    Fish sauce, soy sauce, sugar, white pepper, egg, shallot, garlic, pork, pre-cooked rice, green onion, cilantro, cucumber, lime, chile peppers.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    I am 5'9 and currently 181lbs, formerly 187lbs. I do no daily exercise, and have more than 3000 calories in protein and fat. I have normal blood pressure and excellent cholesterol. And, I am still losing weight.
    Either you don't know your daily calorie expenditure, are miscounting your actual intake or your body is incapable of processing the levels of protein and fat that you are feeding it. One or more of those 3 things is a fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    There is a significant body of evidence that indicates calorie-in calorie-out diets are not effective. Try reading one of Taubes' books; hell, even Atkins was on to something.
    There is zero evidence indicating that calorie-in calorie-out diets are ineffective. Every single time it has been tested, it has been proven, Remember the twinkie diet?

  5. #65
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uzi View Post
    You are looking at it too simply. YOU should study some basic chemistry. Chemicals interact with each other, they interact with energy, they interact with I don't know what. It's not as simple.
    You are looking at it too "scientifically". What does common sense tell you? What is better? An apple or sugar extracted artificially from corn?
    Look up Bergson and similar philosophers, you and most of today's society should learn from him.

    And please don't tell me to "study basic chemistry" when you claim c6h12o6 is fructose. Thank you.
    I think this merits a "Bitch Please".

    Since when does 'common sense' trump science? And C6H12O6 is the chemical formula for Fructose, thank you.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by belfpala View Post
    Then I should just nom on chile peppers and get even more bang (literally!) for the buck. 144 mg per 100g compared to 93 mg per 100g of kiwi. :P
    You get a lot more than vitamin C out of a kiwi fruit. However chili peppers are good for you, I'm not sure exactly what your point is. As I already stated, a balanced diet is the healthiest.

  7. #67
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zurtle View Post
    Either you don't know your daily calorie expenditure, are miscounting your actual intake or your body is incapable of processing the levels of protein and fat that you are feeding it. One or more of those 3 things is a fact.
    Nope, none of those are true in my case.

    There is zero evidence indicating that calorie-in calorie-out diets are ineffective. Every single time it has been tested, it has been proven, Remember the twinkie diet?
    As I said, take a squiz at one of Taubes' books. He lists in detail the studies supporting his thesis.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-07 at 11:16 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zurtle View Post
    You get a lot more than vitamin C out of a kiwi fruit. However chili peppers are good for you, I'm not sure exactly what your point is. As I already stated, a balanced diet is the healthiest.
    Chilli peppers are not high in sugar like kiwifruit.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  8. #68
    Legendary! Callace's Avatar
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    This sounds much like that Atkins scam that everyone climbed aboard years ago and abruptly fled the scene when it was harshly debunked.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    As I said, take a squiz at one of Taubes' books. He lists in detail the studies supporting his thesis.[COLOR="red"]
    I'm sure he does, and they also support his pocket book. You can find 5 studies saying the exact opposite of each other on pretty much any topic. Unfortunately his studies do not refute logic and basic chemistry.

  10. #70
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callace View Post
    This sounds much like that Atkins scam that everyone climbed aboard years ago and abruptly fled the scene when it was harshly debunked.
    If you call less than four studies "harshly debunked".

    Atkins had the right idea, but his nutritional approach had some flaws which were later corrected.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Zurtle View Post
    You get a lot more than vitamin C out of a kiwi fruit. However chili peppers are good for you, I'm not sure exactly what your point is. As I already stated, a balanced diet is the healthiest.
    My point was what Didactic said above: chile peppers don't have as much sugar.

    But yes, I agree with a balanced diet, small portions, eating 5-6 times per day, and aiming for roughly 30% of my calories coming from each of fat, protein, and carbs. I don't count calories, just estimate. Seems to work well enough for me. I'm also more inclined to eat vegetables than most Americans, so that probably helps.
    Fish sauce, soy sauce, sugar, white pepper, egg, shallot, garlic, pork, pre-cooked rice, green onion, cilantro, cucumber, lime, chile peppers.

  12. #72
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zurtle View Post
    I'm sure he does, and they also support his pocket book. You can find 5 studies saying the exact opposite of each other on pretty much any topic. Unfortunately his studies do not refute logic and basic chemistry.
    You clearly haven't read either Why We Get Fat, or Good Calories Bad Calories.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  13. #73
    The Lightbringer Uzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    I think this merits a "Bitch Please".

    Since when does 'common sense' trump science? And C6H12O6 is the chemical formula for Fructose, thank you.
    It doesn't merit a "bitch please".
    I stand corrected, I thought c6h12o6 was glucose but apparently the basic formula is the same.

    Anyway my point still stands. I never said common sense trumps science. Just that often people forget it because of science. And this is the case.

    Apple is good. Healthy. End of story.

  14. #74
    Just answer these questions.

    What does your body use to run?

    What will happen if you do not provide it fuel?

    What will happen if you provide it too much fuel?

    Calories in vs Calories out is NOT refutable. The only thing that can vary is what your caloric needs are and how many calories your body is actually utilizing from what you give it (as the body often can't process what you are giving it). Are there thing you can do to force your body to require more or less calories? Sure, but ultimately it still boils down to the same basic formula, anyone that tells you differently has no clue what they are talking about.

  15. #75
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uzi View Post
    It doesn't merit a "bitch please".
    I stand corrected, I thought c6h12o6 was glucose but apparently the basic formula is the same.

    Anyway my point still stands. I never said common sense trumps science. Just that often people forget it because of science. And this is the case.

    Apple is good. Healthy. End of story.
    And I disagree based on a large body of research. You can have your apple, I will continue to have my bacon.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-07 at 11:23 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zurtle View Post
    Just answer these questions.

    What does your body use to run?

    What will happen if you do not provide it fuel?

    What will happen if you provide it too much fuel?

    Calories in vs Calories out is NOT refutable. The only thing that can vary is what your caloric needs are and how many calories your body is actually utilizing from what you give it (as the body often can't process what you are giving it). Are there thing you can do to force your body to require more or less calories? Sure, but ultimately it still boils down to the same basic formula, anyone that tells you differently has no clue what they are talking about.
    Adenine Triphosphate, your point?

    Weight gain has to do with insulin responses more than caloric intake.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post

    Adenine Triphosphate, your point?

    Weight gain has to do with insulin responses more than caloric intake.
    Insulin response has nothing to do with weight gain, only fat storage. If you stop eating, where do you think your body is going to get its fuel? from the fat stores. If you stored 500 calories worth of fat and later you need 500 calories worth of energy answer me a question, where is your body going to get that energy if you do not feed it that energy? This isn't refutable, are you telling me that your body will just die rather than convert the fat stores to energy?

  17. #77
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zurtle View Post
    Insulin response has nothing to do with weight gain, only fat storage.
    Sorry, stopped reading there.

    If you're going to be close-minded there really isn't a point in arguing with you.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Zurtle View Post
    Insulin response has nothing to do with weight gain, only fat storage...
    I think the point was not creating the fat storage in the first place. (Which, by the way, can be a very unhealthy thing, to be too lean; people on the bottom end of the BMI scale actually have higher morbidity than people on the obese end. Not that BMI is a good thing to use).
    Fish sauce, soy sauce, sugar, white pepper, egg, shallot, garlic, pork, pre-cooked rice, green onion, cilantro, cucumber, lime, chile peppers.

  19. #79
    Legendary! Callace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    If you call less than four studies "harshly debunked".

    Atkins had the right idea, but his nutritional approach had some flaws which were later corrected.
    Uhuh. There are many things you can remove from your diet altogether and expect weight loss as a result, but that doesn't make it a good idea.
    This is a textbook example of being logical about a problem without thinking about the context. If a lone person or " very select group" of people are advocating something, and you've paid money to learn more, you have been had.

    I hope you don't have health problems later in life as a consequence of essential nutrients that you have deprived your body. This much is obvious though, the appeal of false authorities is an extremely marketable stupidity these days. Just look at Dr. Oz's success. That man's supposed accolades are still under heavy scrutiny. This is the same type of quackery.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Callace View Post
    ]
    I hope you don't have health problems later in life as a consequence of essential nutrients that you have deprived your body.
    Which essential nutrients? You can get almost everything you need from rice, beans, and kale, if you want. Mix in a bit of seafood there, a bit of citrus there, and you're set.
    Fish sauce, soy sauce, sugar, white pepper, egg, shallot, garlic, pork, pre-cooked rice, green onion, cilantro, cucumber, lime, chile peppers.

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