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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by jbhasban View Post
    Skin doesnt weigh much.... you have extra fat under that skin. I had extra skin (went from 300 lbs to 180 at 5'9") before I had surgery to remove it. Guess how much weight I lost. Maybe a pound at most and that's because the doctor removed some stomach fat as well while he was in there.

    Skin is a really really thin layer. Since you lost so much weight, you should be able to pull the epidermis away from the fat under it fairly easily (I can, though I am below 10% body fat now so the layer under it is fairly minimal as well). That small 2-3 mm layer is your skin. The rest of the stuff you can pinch is fat. BTW, being taller means your waist should be SMALLER not bigger for that amount of weight.
    I think you both got sidetracked here. Isn't his point that he's actually way healthier now than when he was back when he tried the Atkins diet?
    Trying to argue anything with any sort of nuance over Twitter is the intellectual equivalent of trying to trying to squeeze a cow through a keyhole. Sure, you might even be able to do it with enough brute force, and whatever comes out the other side might even still be considered to be "cow" in the technical sense, but it will be so mangled as to be completely unrecognizable.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Holtzmann View Post
    I think you both got sidetracked here. Isn't his point that he's actually way healthier now than when he was back when he tried the Atkins diet?
    Who knows if he is healthier? He didnt post his vitals. The only thing he posted was his waist and weight. From the fact that he is deluded about his weight, it is not unreasonable to believe he is deluded about his health as well.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by jbhasban View Post
    Skin doesnt weigh much.... you have extra fat under that skin. I had extra skin (went from 300 lbs to 180 at 5'9") before I had surgery to remove it. Guess how much weight I lost. Maybe a pound at most and that's because the doctor removed some stomach fat as well while he was in there.

    Skin is a really really thin layer. Since you lost so much weight, you should be able to pull the epidermis away from the fat under it fairly easily (I can, though I am below 10% body fat now so the layer under it is fairly minimal as well). That small 2-3 mm layer is your skin. The rest of the stuff you can pinch is fat. BTW, being taller means your waist should be SMALLER not bigger for that amount of weight.
    I'm not just talking just the stomach, which what I am sure you are talking about. If you tallied it up, from my hips, to thighs, and glutes it's an extra 30 pounds. It's already been scouted for surgery, which would cost me a total of 12 grand for the work I'd need done. I'll never afford it. Sorry, you can't call someone at 12% bodyfat @ 300 pounds fat.

    And are you kidding me? My frame is much larger than Cutlers. I stood next to him at the Arnold Classic, in Columbus, this year. My waist to glutes is far greater than his... as my glutes/hips are twice his size. I squat 100 pounds more easily. Literally I have a giant ass, like it's huge, most woman "ethnic" woman would die for my ass.

    My actual Waist, as in around the hips, is much smaller than 42. More like a 36-38 but my ass/legs certainly couldn't fit in pants with that waist size.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-07 at 05:34 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Holtzmann View Post
    I think you both got sidetracked here. Isn't his point that he's actually way healthier now than when he was back when he tried the Atkins diet?
    That's the point I was trying to make. These diets don't work unless you are on them for life. Nothing can replace exercise, because once you go off these diets, you will balloon.

    Weight-loss doesn't equal healthiness. That is wrong and potentially deadly misinformation.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    That's the point I was trying to make. These diets don't work unless you are on them for life. Nothing can replace exercise, because once you go off these diets, you will balloon.

    Weight-loss doesn't equal healthiness. That is wrong and potentially deadly misinformation.
    Totally correct information about health from the guy with the heroin needle in his avatar.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Neazy View Post
    Totally correct information about health from the guy with the heroin needle in his avatar.
    Get a face, at least, before you try to invalidate someones point with nonsensical quips.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    Get a face, at least, before you try to invalidate someones point with nonsensical quips.
    That wasn't sarcasm. Everything you said was correct. The irony amuses me.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Neazy View Post
    That wasn't sarcasm. Everything you said was correct. The irony amuses me.
    In his defense, it's really easy to assume anything said on the internet is sarcasm nowadays.
    Trying to argue anything with any sort of nuance over Twitter is the intellectual equivalent of trying to trying to squeeze a cow through a keyhole. Sure, you might even be able to do it with enough brute force, and whatever comes out the other side might even still be considered to be "cow" in the technical sense, but it will be so mangled as to be completely unrecognizable.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Neazy View Post
    That wasn't sarcasm. Everything you said was correct. The irony amuses me.
    Of course it's correct information. I have been there. My experiences have shown me the truth. Though, what's the poke about the Avatar? What does my Avatar have to do with anything I type?

    You were trying to be ironic but you don't have a face. Get one, and maybe we can discuss farther how awesome you think I am.

    (TOPIC) To anyone reading this thread. You can and will lose weight with this diet. Though I wouldn't recommend it. As from personal experience, I can say it only a bandaid fix to the real problem. The real problem relates to education, body awareness, and exercise out-put. If you want more information please PM, and I will gladly help you, in the best way I can.

    Thanks, now I amout before I get infracted.

  9. #109
    If you can't see the humor in someone with a needle full of heroin in their avatar giving out health advice, I don't know what to tell you. And I don't know what you mean by not having a face; I do have one, and it has bushy eyebrows and the faint remains of freckles from when I was little.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    As said, fruit is full of sugar, and bread is full of refined carbohydrates.
    I eat a lots of fruit. maybe because i am active, i am not fat. Maybe people who get eating fruit are not active enough to use up that energy from its sugar.

  11. #111
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    That's the point I was trying to make. These diets don't work unless you are on them for life. Nothing can replace exercise, because once you go off these diets, you will balloon.

    Weight-loss doesn't equal healthiness. That is wrong and potentially deadly misinformation.
    Food which is posited to be unhealthy and leading to weight gain doesn't miraculously become the opposite. The entire point behind these sorts of diets is they are intended to be permanent lifestyle choices - finding your carbohydrate tolerance, and living at that.

    And quite frankly Taubes' books go some way to explaining why the US has such a severe obesity epidemic. Corn-derived sugars are put in everything, and the vast majority of food sold in supermarkets is low fat, but high in sugars and carbohydrates.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Food which is posited to be unhealthy and leading to weight gain doesn't miraculously become the opposite. The entire point behind these sorts of diets is they are intended to be permanent lifestyle choices - finding your carbohydrate tolerance, and living at that.

    And quite frankly Taubes' books go some way to explaining why the US has such a severe obesity epidemic. Corn-derived sugars are put in everything, and the vast majority of food sold in supermarkets is low fat, but high in sugars and carbohydrates.
    Do want you want, but I'll take my way of living over yours anytime.
    Your diet is basically no sport and restrict certain food, with pretty much only meat and vegetables? you have no idea how bad in the long run that is, both physically and mentally.

    Restrictions only makes you want things more, and in general, you then eat more of them when you crack. Any diet that has complete restrictions on some foods is bad for this reason, that's from personal experience, not just something I read.

    Not doing sports, isn't healthy, even if you're not fat. If you do only about 1h of sport per day, you will have a much more healthier life, even if you eat more junk food.

    Meat gives you saturated fat. Most vegetables don't contain fat, how will you get those Omega 3 in sufficient quantities? A lot of studies show that saturated fat changes your metabolism, and this has dramatic consequences on fat storage. New born, when the mother ate a lot of meat when she was pregnant, have Adipose tissue changed, which will grow in size and numbers when you gain weight, and WON'T decrease in numbers when you loose weight, only decrease in size. This has for a consequence that people will regain the weight right after.


    If you loose weight with a certain diet, it means you don't eat enough compare to the energy you need. After a certain period, the body adapts, and you won't loose anymore weight. As soon as you eat more, you will regain this fat straight up. With a diet, you only lower your metabolism, you don't increase it.


    Now, take another way of life.
    - No food restrictions: If you don't put yourself any restrictions, you will not think about eating all the time. Mentally, that's a lot more healthy.

    - Limiting your portions: No restrictions doesn't mean you can eat all you want, it means you can eat any food. You still have to know in what quantities, because no matter what you eat, eating too much of it isn't healthy.

    - Doing Sports: By doing physical exercise, not only will you burn more energy, so you can eat more, but you will increase your metabolism, making you burn MORE calories when you're idle. Also, you will have a better blood flow, and generally feel much fit that if you don't do any sports.

    - eating everything: food diversity will help you mentally, will also keep you away from depression. Meat and vegetables are good ofc, but we also need cereals, none saturated fat, and all the oligo elements.
    Eating more than 250g of meat per day isn't healthy, your proteins income should be from diverse sources. Fruits and cereals will give you elements that you can't find in meat or vegetables, which your body needs to be healthy. You also have to consider acido base ratio when eating.


    Conclusion:
    -Restrictions on certain food will affect you mentally.
    -Restrictions on certain food will put additional social pressure.
    - Restrictions on a type of food will increase the risk of a oligo element deficit, Iron, magnesium, calcium, or a deficit in a Vitamin.
    - A diet that makes you loose weight will on the long term decreases your metabolism, it will not increase it.
    - Sport will increase your metabolism, makes you burn more energy while idle and will prevent heart problems.
    - Eating too much saturated fat contains in meat and animal products will have an affect on your brain, and will change your body structure, making it harder to loose weight.

    I don't live in the US, but from what I gathered, the meat you eat, was fed with mostly corn and soja, which increase the omega 6 fat. In europe, we don't have those big meat factories, and more and more farmers leave their cattle naturally eating grass, to have a more healthy meat with higher concentration of omgea 3.

    So go ahead, eat your bacon. I'll continue eating a bit of everything, meat, vegetables, fruits, cereals, bread and pasta, potatoes, doing some exercise every day. See you in 15 years, and tell me how it went for you.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Ret was broken. If you don’t see eye to eye with us on that, then it’s understandable why the degree of change might be surprising to you
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  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Yes, it is exactly the same. C6H12O6 in fruit is the same C6H12O6 that is in corn syrup.

    And yes, I do in fact know how they extract HFCS from corn, and I know quite well what they 'put in it'.

    Please study some basic chemistry before posting this sort of stuff.
    The fact that the sugars may be the same isn't the most relevant point. You're getting a shitload of phytochemicals/antioxidants when you eat your average fruit. You're not getting that when you eat something else, even if it does have the same time of sugar.

    As I said before, the ultimate goal of a diet should be health. A good body weight will come as a result of health, not the other way around. I've tried Atkins-style diets ~10 years ago or so, and they definitely do "work" in the sense that they help to shed weight. But I've since been convinced that it's not in the right way.
    Last edited by FathomFear; 2012-10-08 at 02:19 PM.

  14. #114
    The Lightbringer Uzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neazy View Post
    If you can't see the humor in someone with a needle full of heroin in their avatar giving out health advice, I don't know what to tell you. And I don't know what you mean by not having a face; I do have one, and it has bushy eyebrows and the faint remains of freckles from when I was little.
    I think his point was that you criticize (though actually not but whatever) the contrast of his post and avatar, while having no avatar yourself. Avatar = face analogy.

    Anyway I agree with him about the whole thing, just eat naturally and do some movement which you should regardless of your physical health. Don't make your lifestyle "Bacon for health 2012".

  15. #115
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FathomFear View Post
    The fact that the sugars may be the same isn't the most relevant point. You're getting a shitload of phytochemicals/antioxidants when you eat your average fruit. You're not getting that when you eat something else, even if it does have the same time of sugar.

    As I said before, the ultimate goal of a diet should be health. A good body weight will come as a result of health, not the other way around. I've tried Atkins-style diets ~10 years ago or so, and they definitely do "work" in the sense that they help to shed weight. But I've since been convinced that it's not in the right way.
    Doubtless convinced by a body of nutritionists with their hands in "subsidies" from companies like Nestle and Kraft.

    The necessary nutrients can be obtained from meat and green vegetables.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Doubtless convinced by a body of nutritionists with their hands in "subsidies" from companies like Nestle and Kraft.

    The necessary nutrients can be obtained from meat and green vegetables.
    not in the right proportions, so your argument is not valid.

    besides, you brain need constant sugar, not eating any carbs= not good
    Also, if you're gonna eat 2000 calories with only meat or vegetables, you either eat WAY WAY too much meat, or you need to eat 2kg of vegetables per day to meet what your body naturally needs.
    failing to do so, will make you loose weight, that works on a short term, but it's by no way how you should eat on the long term.
    Last edited by ragingsoul; 2012-10-08 at 10:17 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Ret was broken. If you don’t see eye to eye with us on that, then it’s understandable why the degree of change might be surprising to you
    i7 920@ 3.4Ghz, Gigabyte X58A-UD7, 6GB Ram Triple Channel OCZ @ 1900Mhz, CrossFire HD 5850 1Gb, Vertex 3 240Gb, BenQ M2700HD. G15 Keyboard

  17. #117
    The Patient Abominator's Avatar
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    Anecdotal evidence < x 10^9 most forms of evidence < peer-reviewed scientific article

    Honestly the types of food may have some control on weight gain but 99% of it is straight down to calories in calories out. Any given food has a certain amount of energy in it, it releases this energy when it's chemical bonds are broken in the body. Some macronutrients such as fat have more bonds or higher energy bonds that need to be broken to digested than for example carbohydrates. In the end calorie dense foods just have more bonds so saying those foods cause weight gain not because of the they energy hold but simply because they are that type of food is quite silly.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Doubtless convinced by a body of nutritionists with their hands in "subsidies" from companies like Nestle and Kraft.

    The necessary nutrients can be obtained from meat and green vegetables.
    For the record, 90% of my caloric intake comes from vegetables. And although I like the taste of meat, I don't eat it.

    My main point of contention with your original post revolves around your comments about fruit. Fruits contains tons of phytochemicals which are difficult if not impossible to get elsewhere, many of which are closely studied even now for potentially having significant anti-cancer properties. You will be a hard-pressed to find any reputable scientist who will not deem most fruits extraordinarily healthy. My point is that they shouldn't be left on the the shelf just because you might lose weight faster if you stop eating them. The main goal of a good diet needs to be health. Fast and easy weight loss is not the ultimate barometer.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by FathomFear View Post
    For the record, 90% of my caloric intake comes from vegetables. And although I like the taste of meat, I don't eat it.

    My main point of contention with your original post revolves around your comments about fruit. Fruits contains tons of phytochemicals which are difficult if not impossible to get elsewhere, many of which are closely studied even now for potentially having significant anti-cancer properties. You will be a hard-pressed to find any reputable scientist who will not deem most fruits extraordinarily healthy. My point is that they shouldn't be left on the the shelf just because you might lose weight faster if you stop eating them. The main goal of a good diet needs to be health. Fast and easy weight loss is not the ultimate barometer.
    taking a 2000k calories need, 90% of that is 1800 kcal.

    If we take an average of 60 kcal for 100g of vegetables, that's 3kg of vegetables per day.

    I'm not saying you're lying, but those numbers are IMO pretty high, unless you count fruits as vegetables.
    Are you sure about your numbers?
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Ret was broken. If you don’t see eye to eye with us on that, then it’s understandable why the degree of change might be surprising to you
    i7 920@ 3.4Ghz, Gigabyte X58A-UD7, 6GB Ram Triple Channel OCZ @ 1900Mhz, CrossFire HD 5850 1Gb, Vertex 3 240Gb, BenQ M2700HD. G15 Keyboard

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Funny fact, the sugar in soda is the same sugar in fruit. Fructose.
    No it isn't. High fructose corn syrup is not the same as the fructose you get from fruit. Even if you get soda made from raw sugar, I don't think the quantities aren't really even similar.
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