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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Neazy View Post
    That wasn't sarcasm. Everything you said was correct. The irony amuses me.
    In his defense, it's really easy to assume anything said on the internet is sarcasm nowadays.
    Nothing ever bothers Juular.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Neazy View Post
    That wasn't sarcasm. Everything you said was correct. The irony amuses me.
    Of course it's correct information. I have been there. My experiences have shown me the truth. Though, what's the poke about the Avatar? What does my Avatar have to do with anything I type?

    You were trying to be ironic but you don't have a face. Get one, and maybe we can discuss farther how awesome you think I am.

    (TOPIC) To anyone reading this thread. You can and will lose weight with this diet. Though I wouldn't recommend it. As from personal experience, I can say it only a bandaid fix to the real problem. The real problem relates to education, body awareness, and exercise out-put. If you want more information please PM, and I will gladly help you, in the best way I can.

    Thanks, now I amout before I get infracted.

  3. #103
    If you can't see the humor in someone with a needle full of heroin in their avatar giving out health advice, I don't know what to tell you. And I don't know what you mean by not having a face; I do have one, and it has bushy eyebrows and the faint remains of freckles from when I was little.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    As said, fruit is full of sugar, and bread is full of refined carbohydrates.
    I eat a lots of fruit. maybe because i am active, i am not fat. Maybe people who get eating fruit are not active enough to use up that energy from its sugar.

  5. #105
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    That's the point I was trying to make. These diets don't work unless you are on them for life. Nothing can replace exercise, because once you go off these diets, you will balloon.

    Weight-loss doesn't equal healthiness. That is wrong and potentially deadly misinformation.
    Food which is posited to be unhealthy and leading to weight gain doesn't miraculously become the opposite. The entire point behind these sorts of diets is they are intended to be permanent lifestyle choices - finding your carbohydrate tolerance, and living at that.

    And quite frankly Taubes' books go some way to explaining why the US has such a severe obesity epidemic. Corn-derived sugars are put in everything, and the vast majority of food sold in supermarkets is low fat, but high in sugars and carbohydrates.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Food which is posited to be unhealthy and leading to weight gain doesn't miraculously become the opposite. The entire point behind these sorts of diets is they are intended to be permanent lifestyle choices - finding your carbohydrate tolerance, and living at that.

    And quite frankly Taubes' books go some way to explaining why the US has such a severe obesity epidemic. Corn-derived sugars are put in everything, and the vast majority of food sold in supermarkets is low fat, but high in sugars and carbohydrates.
    Do want you want, but I'll take my way of living over yours anytime.
    Your diet is basically no sport and restrict certain food, with pretty much only meat and vegetables? you have no idea how bad in the long run that is, both physically and mentally.

    Restrictions only makes you want things more, and in general, you then eat more of them when you crack. Any diet that has complete restrictions on some foods is bad for this reason, that's from personal experience, not just something I read.

    Not doing sports, isn't healthy, even if you're not fat. If you do only about 1h of sport per day, you will have a much more healthier life, even if you eat more junk food.

    Meat gives you saturated fat. Most vegetables don't contain fat, how will you get those Omega 3 in sufficient quantities? A lot of studies show that saturated fat changes your metabolism, and this has dramatic consequences on fat storage. New born, when the mother ate a lot of meat when she was pregnant, have Adipose tissue changed, which will grow in size and numbers when you gain weight, and WON'T decrease in numbers when you loose weight, only decrease in size. This has for a consequence that people will regain the weight right after.


    If you loose weight with a certain diet, it means you don't eat enough compare to the energy you need. After a certain period, the body adapts, and you won't loose anymore weight. As soon as you eat more, you will regain this fat straight up. With a diet, you only lower your metabolism, you don't increase it.


    Now, take another way of life.
    - No food restrictions: If you don't put yourself any restrictions, you will not think about eating all the time. Mentally, that's a lot more healthy.

    - Limiting your portions: No restrictions doesn't mean you can eat all you want, it means you can eat any food. You still have to know in what quantities, because no matter what you eat, eating too much of it isn't healthy.

    - Doing Sports: By doing physical exercise, not only will you burn more energy, so you can eat more, but you will increase your metabolism, making you burn MORE calories when you're idle. Also, you will have a better blood flow, and generally feel much fit that if you don't do any sports.

    - eating everything: food diversity will help you mentally, will also keep you away from depression. Meat and vegetables are good ofc, but we also need cereals, none saturated fat, and all the oligo elements.
    Eating more than 250g of meat per day isn't healthy, your proteins income should be from diverse sources. Fruits and cereals will give you elements that you can't find in meat or vegetables, which your body needs to be healthy. You also have to consider acido base ratio when eating.


    Conclusion:
    -Restrictions on certain food will affect you mentally.
    -Restrictions on certain food will put additional social pressure.
    - Restrictions on a type of food will increase the risk of a oligo element deficit, Iron, magnesium, calcium, or a deficit in a Vitamin.
    - A diet that makes you loose weight will on the long term decreases your metabolism, it will not increase it.
    - Sport will increase your metabolism, makes you burn more energy while idle and will prevent heart problems.
    - Eating too much saturated fat contains in meat and animal products will have an affect on your brain, and will change your body structure, making it harder to loose weight.

    I don't live in the US, but from what I gathered, the meat you eat, was fed with mostly corn and soja, which increase the omega 6 fat. In europe, we don't have those big meat factories, and more and more farmers leave their cattle naturally eating grass, to have a more healthy meat with higher concentration of omgea 3.

    So go ahead, eat your bacon. I'll continue eating a bit of everything, meat, vegetables, fruits, cereals, bread and pasta, potatoes, doing some exercise every day. See you in 15 years, and tell me how it went for you.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Ret was broken. If you don’t see eye to eye with us on that, then it’s understandable why the degree of change might be surprising to you
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  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Yes, it is exactly the same. C6H12O6 in fruit is the same C6H12O6 that is in corn syrup.

    And yes, I do in fact know how they extract HFCS from corn, and I know quite well what they 'put in it'.

    Please study some basic chemistry before posting this sort of stuff.
    The fact that the sugars may be the same isn't the most relevant point. You're getting a shitload of phytochemicals/antioxidants when you eat your average fruit. You're not getting that when you eat something else, even if it does have the same time of sugar.

    As I said before, the ultimate goal of a diet should be health. A good body weight will come as a result of health, not the other way around. I've tried Atkins-style diets ~10 years ago or so, and they definitely do "work" in the sense that they help to shed weight. But I've since been convinced that it's not in the right way.
    Last edited by FathomFear; 2012-10-08 at 02:19 PM.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by FathomFear View Post
    The fact that the sugars may be the same isn't the most relevant point. You're getting a shitload of phytochemicals/antioxidants when you eat your average fruit. You're not getting that when you eat something else, even if it does have the same time of sugar.

    As I said before, the ultimate goal of a diet should be health. A good body weight will come as a result of health, not the other way around. I've tried Atkins-style diets ~10 years ago or so, and they definitely do "work" in the sense that they help to shed weight. But I've since been convinced that it's not in the right way.
    Doubtless convinced by a body of nutritionists with their hands in "subsidies" from companies like Nestle and Kraft.

    The necessary nutrients can be obtained from meat and green vegetables.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Doubtless convinced by a body of nutritionists with their hands in "subsidies" from companies like Nestle and Kraft.

    The necessary nutrients can be obtained from meat and green vegetables.
    not in the right proportions, so your argument is not valid.

    besides, you brain need constant sugar, not eating any carbs= not good
    Also, if you're gonna eat 2000 calories with only meat or vegetables, you either eat WAY WAY too much meat, or you need to eat 2kg of vegetables per day to meet what your body naturally needs.
    failing to do so, will make you loose weight, that works on a short term, but it's by no way how you should eat on the long term.
    Last edited by ragingsoul; 2012-10-08 at 10:17 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Ret was broken. If you don’t see eye to eye with us on that, then it’s understandable why the degree of change might be surprising to you
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  10. #110
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    Anecdotal evidence < x 10^9 most forms of evidence < peer-reviewed scientific article

    Honestly the types of food may have some control on weight gain but 99% of it is straight down to calories in calories out. Any given food has a certain amount of energy in it, it releases this energy when it's chemical bonds are broken in the body. Some macronutrients such as fat have more bonds or higher energy bonds that need to be broken to digested than for example carbohydrates. In the end calorie dense foods just have more bonds so saying those foods cause weight gain not because of the they energy hold but simply because they are that type of food is quite silly.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Doubtless convinced by a body of nutritionists with their hands in "subsidies" from companies like Nestle and Kraft.

    The necessary nutrients can be obtained from meat and green vegetables.
    For the record, 90% of my caloric intake comes from vegetables. And although I like the taste of meat, I don't eat it.

    My main point of contention with your original post revolves around your comments about fruit. Fruits contains tons of phytochemicals which are difficult if not impossible to get elsewhere, many of which are closely studied even now for potentially having significant anti-cancer properties. You will be a hard-pressed to find any reputable scientist who will not deem most fruits extraordinarily healthy. My point is that they shouldn't be left on the the shelf just because you might lose weight faster if you stop eating them. The main goal of a good diet needs to be health. Fast and easy weight loss is not the ultimate barometer.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by FathomFear View Post
    For the record, 90% of my caloric intake comes from vegetables. And although I like the taste of meat, I don't eat it.

    My main point of contention with your original post revolves around your comments about fruit. Fruits contains tons of phytochemicals which are difficult if not impossible to get elsewhere, many of which are closely studied even now for potentially having significant anti-cancer properties. You will be a hard-pressed to find any reputable scientist who will not deem most fruits extraordinarily healthy. My point is that they shouldn't be left on the the shelf just because you might lose weight faster if you stop eating them. The main goal of a good diet needs to be health. Fast and easy weight loss is not the ultimate barometer.
    taking a 2000k calories need, 90% of that is 1800 kcal.

    If we take an average of 60 kcal for 100g of vegetables, that's 3kg of vegetables per day.

    I'm not saying you're lying, but those numbers are IMO pretty high, unless you count fruits as vegetables.
    Are you sure about your numbers?
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Ret was broken. If you don’t see eye to eye with us on that, then it’s understandable why the degree of change might be surprising to you
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  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Funny fact, the sugar in soda is the same sugar in fruit. Fructose.
    No it isn't. High fructose corn syrup is not the same as the fructose you get from fruit. Even if you get soda made from raw sugar, I don't think the quantities aren't really even similar.
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  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by ragingsoul View Post
    taking a 2000k calories need, 90% of that is 1800 kcal.

    If we take an average of 60 kcal for 100g of vegetables, that's 3kg of vegetables per day.

    I'm not saying you're lying, but those numbers are IMO pretty high, unless you count fruits as vegetables.
    Are you sure about your numbers?
    He could eat a ton of soy and guacamole. I do think his protein intake must be really low unless he uses supplements. And TVP could qualify as eating vegetables.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 03:02 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by gamingmuscle View Post
    No it isn't. High fructose corn syrup is not the same as the fructose you get from fruit. Even if you get soda made from raw sugar, I don't think the quantities aren't really even similar.
    The fructose in HFCS is the same as the fructose in fruit. They have exactly the same molecular structure. However, HFCS also contains a lot of glucose as well as a few saccharides. That said, fruit causes a lower glucose spike than HFCS and contains nutritional benefits other than calories. In other words, Didactic's statement was much more accurate than yours. In actuality, raw sugar is a polysaccharide and even further from fruit than HFCS.
    Last edited by jbhasban; 2012-10-09 at 03:05 PM.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragingsoul View Post
    taking a 2000k calories need, 90% of that is 1800 kcal.

    If we take an average of 60 kcal for 100g of vegetables, that's 3kg of vegetables per day.

    I'm not saying you're lying, but those numbers are IMO pretty high, unless you count fruits as vegetables.
    Are you sure about your numbers?
    I did indeed mean fruits/vegetables, not just vegetables.

    Typical day is like this:

    Breakfast--2-3 fruits, nuts (usually almonds)
    Lunch--Soup or Salad
    Dinner--Huge salad (with a variety of items, like kale, avocado, peppers, etc), usually with a tofu or bean oriented entree
    Snacks--More fruit and nuts

    I usually aim for around 1500 calories these days as I'm on a diet, but it doesn't take too much effort to get there. My original comment should be 90% of calories from plant sources (veggies/fruits/etc). The other 10% is comprised of things like bread, crackers--etc. Stuff I actively do avoid but occasionally incorporate.

  16. #116
    This is one of the most fascinating collections of nonsensicle unvalidated/unverified/backed-up collection of internet expert nuturion gurus I have ever seen. Do your research, read Taubes' books (yes he has more then one) multiple times, then read some works from other authors such as Robb Wolf, Lauren Cordain, Mark Schauss, William Davis, before you decide to self-proclaim yourself weight-loss extrodinaire, perhaps consider a certification in nutrition or a degree in the field before telling other people what is or isnt good for them. This 2-step expert process is such a pissing contest.

    Coming from someone with over 10 years experience in nutrition, weight loss and physical health and fitness, there are a lot of gems in this thread, a lot of trash and more then anything, a bunch of people that have seen marginal success with food restrictions and eliminations and now think they have a clue. Tip of the iceberg people.

    For anyone interested in some truth and avoiding the bull-shit that has populated this thread (Like most threads on MMO websites), PM me, or google UP Fitness and Glenn Parker (I would provide a link, but it wont let me because I am a long time reader, first time poster).

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbhasban View Post
    He could eat a ton of soy and guacamole. I do think his protein intake must be really low unless he uses supplements. And TVP could qualify as eating vegetables. [COLOR="red"]
    I do use TVP and soy flakes. Having said that, I've done the math and easily reach the daily recommended intake of protein. Most people who eat meat are usually far exceeding what they need simply due to portion sizes.

    On an interesting note, on a per calorie basis broccoli has more protein than steak. It just takes substantially more time to consume, say, 300 calories of broccoli than it does 300 calories of steak.

  18. #118
    Problem with specific diets is that it gets to complicated for people who are used to quick and easy and tasty foods, thats why I never went on a "pro diet".
    I managed to get 7% body fat and am about 95kg @ 186cm tall by doing this:

    * No soda, juice or other "fake drinks" only plain water about 4 liter a day (5 on days when I do 1 hour cardio), I drink about 1 liter of water before I head to work to catch up on 7-8 hours of sleep, pretty dehydrated in the mornings.

    * 1 cheat day, friday, I get to choose between a huge burger or big fat pizza or candy, but never soda and only 1 cheat thing per week.

    * I did 1 hour cardio everyday along with 3-4 workout sessions in the gym (which I've done for many years) for a 6 month period, now I'm down to 3 times a week and 2 of them 30 min and 1 of them 1 hour jogs.

    *did not count cals for a single meal, , I stopped putting on salt on my meals, stopped eating candy and drinking soda, reduced my meal sizes (I've always eaten 5 times a day and had protein shakes but this was to get leaner), one lesson I learned was to manipulate my brain, so I poured on a solid plate, the amount I really wanted to eat and I decided to take of 30% of it the first time and even reduced it to 40% in later meals, I really hated this because I was so hungry between meals but after a while I got used to it and my body adapted and I started feeling lighter and could jog a lot easier.

    This worked for me, I didn't lose to much muscle mass, but of course counting cals will reduce your muscle mass loss but I felt this was doable for me and it wasn't that much of a hassle and I'm happy with my results and I believe it's much more doable then following a super strict nutrition plan where you have to watch for everything.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strygwyr View Post
    Do your research, read Taubes' books (yes he has more then one) multiple times, then read some works from other authors such as Robb Wolf, Lauren Cordain, Mark Schauss, William Davis, before you decide to self-proclaim yourself weight-loss extrodinaire
    I've bolded the key phrase in your statement, as I think it's significant to understanding why there is a debate in this thread at all. There are many things a person can do to his or her body to spur "extraordinary" weight loss. The key is that we need to constantly remind ourselves is that there are good and bad ways of losing weight.

    And as far as I can tell no one has been claiming to be a nutrition expert. And even if everyone in this thread were, I doubt that would result in any less disagreeing or arguing, as the field is hotly debated even at the highest ivory towers of science. And that's not too shocking considering the invested interests the corporate world has when it comes to food.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by FathomFear View Post
    I did indeed mean fruits/vegetables, not just vegetables.

    Typical day is like this:

    Breakfast--2-3 fruits, nuts (usually almonds)
    Lunch--Soup or Salad
    Dinner--Huge salad (with a variety of items, like kale, avocado, peppers, etc), usually with a tofu or bean oriented entree
    Snacks--More fruit and nuts

    I usually aim for around 1500 calories these days as I'm on a diet, but it doesn't take too much effort to get there. My original comment should be 90% of calories from plant sources (veggies/fruits/etc). The other 10% is comprised of things like bread, crackers--etc. Stuff I actively do avoid but occasionally incorporate.
    seems more reasonable that way.
    I'm still unsure if you can get all the necessary essentials Amino acid from nuts.
    I made a diet a couple months ago, similar to this, but it was more like:
    -breakfast : protein shake, brown bread, 1 fruit
    - lunch 100g of white meat, 200g vegetables. a small portion of rize or potatoes.
    - Dinner : 100g of white meat, 200g vegetables
    - before bed: 0% fat fromage blanc ( a form of yogurt)

    Before Dinner, I was making 1h up to 1h30 of cardio. That diet was around 1700 kcal per day, with around 80g of proteins per day not to loose muscles while burning fat. with the cardio, it was around 1000 kcal deficit per day, with cardio 6 days a week, almost 1kg every week.
    it worked very well, Now I'm back in shape, building some muscles again, and thus eating a lot more.
    But honestly, 1300 kcal is the lowest you can go while not damaging your body. Even then, if you stay on this low calories diet for too long, your body will adapt, and you will regain everything if you eat more.

    What I was doing, usually every week end, is 1 big meal, always healthy stuff ofc, but in much larger quantities. This keeps your stomach to a reasonable size, and force your body not to go into " sleep" mode.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 04:00 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by FathomFear View Post
    I do use TVP and soy flakes. Having said that, I've done the math and easily reach the daily recommended intake of protein. Most people who eat meat are usually far exceeding what they need simply due to portion sizes.

    On an interesting note, on a per calorie basis broccoli has more protein than steak. It just takes substantially more time to consume, say, 300 calories of broccoli than it does 300 calories of steak.
    your body naturally needs around 1g/kg of lean mass/day of proteins. if you do some exercice to burn quicker, you need to eat more of that, to limit the amount of muscles you will loose , compare to fat.
    it's usually around 1.2 to 1.5g/kg/day.

    Now, the body cannot store proteins, other than in muscles. and the maximal absorb quantities in a meal the body can take is around 35g. So eating 300g of meat in a single meal won't make up for the rest of the day.
    Taking around 20g of protein, 4 times a day is usually enough for most people (70kg to 90).
    I think we simply don't have the same thing in mind when talking about portion sizes. Europe ones /= USA and probably Canada
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Ret was broken. If you don’t see eye to eye with us on that, then it’s understandable why the degree of change might be surprising to you
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