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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by ragingsoul View Post
    taking a 2000k calories need, 90% of that is 1800 kcal.

    If we take an average of 60 kcal for 100g of vegetables, that's 3kg of vegetables per day.

    I'm not saying you're lying, but those numbers are IMO pretty high, unless you count fruits as vegetables.
    Are you sure about your numbers?
    He could eat a ton of soy and guacamole. I do think his protein intake must be really low unless he uses supplements. And TVP could qualify as eating vegetables.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 03:02 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by gamingmuscle View Post
    No it isn't. High fructose corn syrup is not the same as the fructose you get from fruit. Even if you get soda made from raw sugar, I don't think the quantities aren't really even similar.
    The fructose in HFCS is the same as the fructose in fruit. They have exactly the same molecular structure. However, HFCS also contains a lot of glucose as well as a few saccharides. That said, fruit causes a lower glucose spike than HFCS and contains nutritional benefits other than calories. In other words, Didactic's statement was much more accurate than yours. In actuality, raw sugar is a polysaccharide and even further from fruit than HFCS.
    Last edited by jbhasban; 2012-10-09 at 03:05 PM.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragingsoul View Post
    taking a 2000k calories need, 90% of that is 1800 kcal.

    If we take an average of 60 kcal for 100g of vegetables, that's 3kg of vegetables per day.

    I'm not saying you're lying, but those numbers are IMO pretty high, unless you count fruits as vegetables.
    Are you sure about your numbers?
    I did indeed mean fruits/vegetables, not just vegetables.

    Typical day is like this:

    Breakfast--2-3 fruits, nuts (usually almonds)
    Lunch--Soup or Salad
    Dinner--Huge salad (with a variety of items, like kale, avocado, peppers, etc), usually with a tofu or bean oriented entree
    Snacks--More fruit and nuts

    I usually aim for around 1500 calories these days as I'm on a diet, but it doesn't take too much effort to get there. My original comment should be 90% of calories from plant sources (veggies/fruits/etc). The other 10% is comprised of things like bread, crackers--etc. Stuff I actively do avoid but occasionally incorporate.

  3. #123
    This is one of the most fascinating collections of nonsensicle unvalidated/unverified/backed-up collection of internet expert nuturion gurus I have ever seen. Do your research, read Taubes' books (yes he has more then one) multiple times, then read some works from other authors such as Robb Wolf, Lauren Cordain, Mark Schauss, William Davis, before you decide to self-proclaim yourself weight-loss extrodinaire, perhaps consider a certification in nutrition or a degree in the field before telling other people what is or isnt good for them. This 2-step expert process is such a pissing contest.

    Coming from someone with over 10 years experience in nutrition, weight loss and physical health and fitness, there are a lot of gems in this thread, a lot of trash and more then anything, a bunch of people that have seen marginal success with food restrictions and eliminations and now think they have a clue. Tip of the iceberg people.

    For anyone interested in some truth and avoiding the bull-shit that has populated this thread (Like most threads on MMO websites), PM me, or google UP Fitness and Glenn Parker (I would provide a link, but it wont let me because I am a long time reader, first time poster).

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbhasban View Post
    He could eat a ton of soy and guacamole. I do think his protein intake must be really low unless he uses supplements. And TVP could qualify as eating vegetables. [COLOR="red"]
    I do use TVP and soy flakes. Having said that, I've done the math and easily reach the daily recommended intake of protein. Most people who eat meat are usually far exceeding what they need simply due to portion sizes.

    On an interesting note, on a per calorie basis broccoli has more protein than steak. It just takes substantially more time to consume, say, 300 calories of broccoli than it does 300 calories of steak.

  5. #125
    Problem with specific diets is that it gets to complicated for people who are used to quick and easy and tasty foods, thats why I never went on a "pro diet".
    I managed to get 7% body fat and am about 95kg @ 186cm tall by doing this:

    * No soda, juice or other "fake drinks" only plain water about 4 liter a day (5 on days when I do 1 hour cardio), I drink about 1 liter of water before I head to work to catch up on 7-8 hours of sleep, pretty dehydrated in the mornings.

    * 1 cheat day, friday, I get to choose between a huge burger or big fat pizza or candy, but never soda and only 1 cheat thing per week.

    * I did 1 hour cardio everyday along with 3-4 workout sessions in the gym (which I've done for many years) for a 6 month period, now I'm down to 3 times a week and 2 of them 30 min and 1 of them 1 hour jogs.

    *did not count cals for a single meal, , I stopped putting on salt on my meals, stopped eating candy and drinking soda, reduced my meal sizes (I've always eaten 5 times a day and had protein shakes but this was to get leaner), one lesson I learned was to manipulate my brain, so I poured on a solid plate, the amount I really wanted to eat and I decided to take of 30% of it the first time and even reduced it to 40% in later meals, I really hated this because I was so hungry between meals but after a while I got used to it and my body adapted and I started feeling lighter and could jog a lot easier.

    This worked for me, I didn't lose to much muscle mass, but of course counting cals will reduce your muscle mass loss but I felt this was doable for me and it wasn't that much of a hassle and I'm happy with my results and I believe it's much more doable then following a super strict nutrition plan where you have to watch for everything.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strygwyr View Post
    Do your research, read Taubes' books (yes he has more then one) multiple times, then read some works from other authors such as Robb Wolf, Lauren Cordain, Mark Schauss, William Davis, before you decide to self-proclaim yourself weight-loss extrodinaire
    I've bolded the key phrase in your statement, as I think it's significant to understanding why there is a debate in this thread at all. There are many things a person can do to his or her body to spur "extraordinary" weight loss. The key is that we need to constantly remind ourselves is that there are good and bad ways of losing weight.

    And as far as I can tell no one has been claiming to be a nutrition expert. And even if everyone in this thread were, I doubt that would result in any less disagreeing or arguing, as the field is hotly debated even at the highest ivory towers of science. And that's not too shocking considering the invested interests the corporate world has when it comes to food.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by FathomFear View Post
    I did indeed mean fruits/vegetables, not just vegetables.

    Typical day is like this:

    Breakfast--2-3 fruits, nuts (usually almonds)
    Lunch--Soup or Salad
    Dinner--Huge salad (with a variety of items, like kale, avocado, peppers, etc), usually with a tofu or bean oriented entree
    Snacks--More fruit and nuts

    I usually aim for around 1500 calories these days as I'm on a diet, but it doesn't take too much effort to get there. My original comment should be 90% of calories from plant sources (veggies/fruits/etc). The other 10% is comprised of things like bread, crackers--etc. Stuff I actively do avoid but occasionally incorporate.
    seems more reasonable that way.
    I'm still unsure if you can get all the necessary essentials Amino acid from nuts.
    I made a diet a couple months ago, similar to this, but it was more like:
    -breakfast : protein shake, brown bread, 1 fruit
    - lunch 100g of white meat, 200g vegetables. a small portion of rize or potatoes.
    - Dinner : 100g of white meat, 200g vegetables
    - before bed: 0% fat fromage blanc ( a form of yogurt)

    Before Dinner, I was making 1h up to 1h30 of cardio. That diet was around 1700 kcal per day, with around 80g of proteins per day not to loose muscles while burning fat. with the cardio, it was around 1000 kcal deficit per day, with cardio 6 days a week, almost 1kg every week.
    it worked very well, Now I'm back in shape, building some muscles again, and thus eating a lot more.
    But honestly, 1300 kcal is the lowest you can go while not damaging your body. Even then, if you stay on this low calories diet for too long, your body will adapt, and you will regain everything if you eat more.

    What I was doing, usually every week end, is 1 big meal, always healthy stuff ofc, but in much larger quantities. This keeps your stomach to a reasonable size, and force your body not to go into " sleep" mode.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 04:00 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by FathomFear View Post
    I do use TVP and soy flakes. Having said that, I've done the math and easily reach the daily recommended intake of protein. Most people who eat meat are usually far exceeding what they need simply due to portion sizes.

    On an interesting note, on a per calorie basis broccoli has more protein than steak. It just takes substantially more time to consume, say, 300 calories of broccoli than it does 300 calories of steak.
    your body naturally needs around 1g/kg of lean mass/day of proteins. if you do some exercice to burn quicker, you need to eat more of that, to limit the amount of muscles you will loose , compare to fat.
    it's usually around 1.2 to 1.5g/kg/day.

    Now, the body cannot store proteins, other than in muscles. and the maximal absorb quantities in a meal the body can take is around 35g. So eating 300g of meat in a single meal won't make up for the rest of the day.
    Taking around 20g of protein, 4 times a day is usually enough for most people (70kg to 90).
    I think we simply don't have the same thing in mind when talking about portion sizes. Europe ones /= USA and probably Canada
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  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedlance View Post
    Problem with specific diets is that it gets to complicated for people who are used to quick and easy and tasty foods, thats why I never went on a "pro diet".
    I managed to get 7% body fat and am about 95kg @ 186cm tall by doing this:

    * No soda, juice or other "fake drinks" only plain water about 4 liter a day (5 on days when I do 1 hour cardio), I drink about 1 liter of water before I head to work to catch up on 7-8 hours of sleep, pretty dehydrated in the mornings.

    * 1 cheat day, friday, I get to choose between a huge burger or big fat pizza or candy, but never soda and only 1 cheat thing per week.

    * I did 1 hour cardio everyday along with 3-4 workout sessions in the gym (which I've done for many years) for a 6 month period, now I'm down to 3 times a week and 2 of them 30 min and 1 of them 1 hour jogs.

    *did not count cals for a single meal, , I stopped putting on salt on my meals, stopped eating candy and drinking soda, reduced my meal sizes (I've always eaten 5 times a day and had protein shakes but this was to get leaner), one lesson I learned was to manipulate my brain, so I poured on a solid plate, the amount I really wanted to eat and I decided to take of 30% of it the first time and even reduced it to 40% in later meals, I really hated this because I was so hungry between meals but after a while I got used to it and my body adapted and I started feeling lighter and could jog a lot easier.

    This worked for me, I didn't lose to much muscle mass, but of course counting cals will reduce your muscle mass loss but I felt this was doable for me and it wasn't that much of a hassle and I'm happy with my results and I believe it's much more doable then following a super strict nutrition plan where you have to watch for everything.
    7% bodyfat at 95kg LOL, first of all 90% of people on a perfect diet can't attain that without steroids, also to get to 7% bodyfat you need an incredibly strict calorie controlled diet, I don't think you understand what 7% bodyfat entails, you just stop eating candy or soda, are you sure you're 7% bodyfat? Do you have striations in your glutes, do you look like a national level bodybuilder? I don't think so.

    This board needs to be shut down seriously.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Abominator View Post
    7% bodyfat at 95kg LOL, first of all 90% of people on a perfect diet can't attain that without steroids, also to get to 7% bodyfat you need an incredibly strict calorie controlled diet, I don't think you understand what 7% bodyfat entails, you just stop eating candy or soda, are you sure you're 7% bodyfat? Do you have striations in your glutes, do you look like a national level bodybuilder? I don't think so.

    This board needs to be shut down seriously.
    90%? More like 99%. 7% bf at that weight naturally is borderline impossible without seriously fucked up genetics. I say fucked up, not good. Your body needs to have some sort of disorder that makes it produce too much muscle. Most "natural" bodybuilders of that size took roids in the past and have since stopped. You are suggesting you look like this guy: https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...BMcmK5OI7f84BN
    Last edited by jbhasban; 2012-10-09 at 05:28 PM.

  10. #130
    What a bunch of uneducated ingorant comments.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 02:08 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by jbhasban View Post
    90%? More like 99%. 7% bf at that weight naturally is borderline impossible without seriously fucked up genetics. I say fucked up, not good. Your body needs to have some sort of disorder that makes it produce too much muscle. Most "natural" bodybuilders of that size took roids in the past and have since stopped. You are suggesting you look like this guy
    The man in your picture is no where near 95k. You either dont know what you are talking about or you decided to post that hoping we wont recognize your ignorance. 7% Bodyfat at 95kg is not outragous. With calculated hard work and proper nutrition, it is very possible without any form of anabolic drug.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragingsoul View Post
    seems more reasonable that way.
    I'm still unsure if you can get all the necessary essentials Amino acid from nuts.
    I do know that nuts + beans will give you all the essential amino acids. And they don't need to be eaten at the same time.

    I'm also a huge fan of quinoa, which has a complete protein. It's delicious too. Not really sure why it's not more popular. I usually make a bunch and add tons of vegetables, then store it in the fridge and eat it throughout the week.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Strygwyr View Post
    What a bunch of uneducated ingorant comments.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 02:08 PM ----------



    The man in your picture is no where near 95k. You either dont know what you are talking about or you decided to post that hoping we wont recognize your ignorance. 7% Bodyfat at 95kg is not outragous. With calculated hard work and proper nutrition, it is very possible without any form of anabolic drug.
    http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/tydavin/

  13. #133
    So you would discredit people in this thread that are saying they are 95k and 7% BF, but you will believe it because this fellow posted it on bodybuilding.com? Your logic is flawless.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Strygwyr View Post
    So you would discredit people in this thread that are saying they are 95k and 7% BF, but you will believe it because this fellow posted it on bodybuilding.com? Your logic is flawless.
    I dont trust that the guy on bodybuilding.com is natural. I said you can do it unnaturally.

  15. #135
    Weird. My experience says: no diet needed, just brain and know healthy elf-like girls:P they will tell u what to eat... and...well, good genes too?

    I eat a few fruits/day, alot of pasta/vegetable/chicken (no callories, tons of proteins) meat dishes so italian and related food mainly, some good quality ham, typical "subway-like" sandwiches, sometimes homemade hamburger/pizza or go to the restaurant, rarerly fish/red meat and I have almost (see below) banned sugar drinks from my diet, I eat 1 big chocolate/week + I only use brown sugar for coffee. I eat fastfood once/twice per month + maybe drink 2l/cola per month.
    Results?
    My weight was 98kg @ 180cm height, now its 82kg, after 6 months I have lost 16kg, so 35 pounds. I did some home exercises once per week. The wierd thing is...I am slighty thiner, thats all. I am normal build person oO, when I was a kid, I've spent tons of time outside, maybe that's the reson + my dad is "sparta-like" natural build.

    Now I am gonna eat slighty more + excersise 3 times/week, wonder wher it goes.

    I avoid protein shakes, never gonna try them, it's unnatural. I dont trust bodybuilders, trainers etc. I only tust myself + my girls who live healthy.
    Last edited by Slaughty8; 2012-10-09 at 10:51 PM.

  16. #136
    Why do you people fuss so much over food? I just eat what I like and never get fat, just stop eating like a pig and you'll be fine.

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