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  1. #81
    Very true, breath of flame is a huge trap.

    I've pugged with monk tanks who didn't use purifying brew-- at 90. They literally took 20% less damage than a rogue.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    Monk tanking is kind of abstract. People that just randomly pick up the class without doing extra research probably have no idea how Guard/Shuffle/PB/ect work.

    BoF is probably a huge pitfall for most new monks. Great AoE damage but when you look a the class where do you find 2 Chi to burn without letting Guard/Shuffle drop? The spec is very tight on resources and it's easy for uneducated players to get pulled into the resource traps the class offers.

    Think of all the DK's out there burning runes on Heart Strike or something instead of Death Strike's. Monk's will suffer from the same issues.
    Everyone talks about how resource starved brewmasters are, but I just don't see it. I have nigh 100% uptime on shuffle and guard, and I have plenty of time to toss in a BoF every now and again. I think the trick is to go into a fight with 2 chi that way you can pretty quickly stack up shuffle a few times. A lot of people are still not realizing that using Blackout kick while shuffle is up adds a full 6 sec onto the buff time instead of simply refreshing the buff.

  3. #83
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monteverdi View Post
    Everyone talks about how resource starved brewmasters are, but I just don't see it. I have nigh 100% uptime on shuffle and guard, and I have plenty of time to toss in a BoF every now and again. I think the trick is to go into a fight with 2 chi that way you can pretty quickly stack up shuffle a few times. A lot of people are still not realizing that using Blackout kick while shuffle is up adds a full 6 sec onto the buff time instead of simply refreshing the buff.
    You said it yourself "every now and again". Some people are posting about spamming it with SCK like it's the only part of our AoE rotation. Sure I find 2 extra chi here and there for BoF or Chi Wave if I want to be nice to the healers but it's not easy to do without letting Guard/Shuffle drop. Takes quite a while into a fight where you've built up enough Shuffle duration to have breathing room for other things, and by then the pack is close to dead anyways.

    Fortunately RJW proc's Shuffle just wish they could cut the CD down a little.

    You can't really count going into a fight with 2+ Chi since we have no way to generate it out of combat unless I'm missing a trick here.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    You said it yourself "every now and again". Some people are posting about spamming it with SCK like it's the only part of our AoE rotation. Sure I find 2 extra chi here and there for BoF or Chi Wave if I want to be nice to the healers but it's not easy to do without letting Guard/Shuffle drop. Takes quite a while into a fight where you've built up enough Shuffle duration to have breathing room for other things, and by then the pack is close to dead anyways.

    Fortunately RJW proc's Shuffle just wish they could cut the CD down a little.

    You can't really count going into a fight with 2+ Chi since we have no way to generate it out of combat unless I'm missing a trick here.

    Expel Harm helps you stack up chi pre-pull. It's not terribly effecient, but it gets the job done.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Monteverdi View Post
    Expel Harm helps you stack up chi pre-pull. It's not terribly effecient, but it gets the job done.
    If you're not fighting your chi degrades. EH doesn't allow you to pre-stack... it's cooldown is too long.

  6. #86
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monteverdi View Post
    Expel Harm helps you stack up chi pre-pull. It's not terribly effecient, but it gets the job done.
    EH still requires a target to my knowledge and with a 15 sec CD you will be bleeding off Chi anyways if your not in combat. Blizz nee'ds to populate the raid zones with lots of random critters so we can fire of a KS or Power Strikes Jab before the start of a fight =P

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    If you're not fighting your chi degrades. EH doesn't allow you to pre-stack... it's cooldown is too long.
    I expected that too, but I was actually able to stack them up last night when I was chaining heroics. Unless I was stuck in combat somehow?

    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight
    EH still requires a target to my knowledge and with a 15 sec CD you will be bleeding off Chi anyways if your not in combat. Blizz nee'ds to populate the raid zones with lots of random critters so we can fire of a KS or Power Strikes Jab before the start of a fight =P
    EH you can target yourself, or just have no target. Heal still happens, you just don't get the damage component.

  8. #88
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monteverdi View Post
    EH you can target yourself, or just have no target. Heal still happens, you just don't get the damage component.
    Hmmm have to try that tonight but 15 sec is pretty close to the rate of Chi degradation so still not sure it's possible to stack Chi outside of combat with it.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    Hmmm have to try that tonight but 15 sec is pretty close to the rate of Chi degradation so still not sure it's possible to stack Chi outside of combat with it.
    Yeah I will need to test this too... Like I said, last night I was able to stack it up pre-pull, but I suppose it's possible that each time I did so I was stuck in combat. I kinda don't think that was the case, but I could be wrong.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Monteverdi View Post
    Everyone talks about how resource starved brewmasters are, but I just don't see it. I have nigh 100% uptime on shuffle and guard, and I have plenty of time to toss in a BoF every now and again. I think the trick is to go into a fight with 2 chi that way you can pretty quickly stack up shuffle a few times. A lot of people are still not realizing that using Blackout kick while shuffle is up adds a full 6 sec onto the buff time instead of simply refreshing the buff.
    I used to think the same way, until I started running raids and stuff where mobs actually hit hard. In heroics I can keep shuffle up 100% of the time and still have a lot of chi left over, but once I started raiding I needed to use purifying brew so much more.

    Quite honestly I would recommend most new monk tanks to get the healing elixirs talent, a way to track its internal cool down and use PB every 15 seconds (HE ICD) to get used to using PB more.
    Last edited by Noviskers; 2012-10-08 at 06:49 PM.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Monteverdi
    Yeah I will need to test this too... Like I said, last night I was able to stack it up pre-pull, but I suppose it's possible that each time I did so I was stuck in combat. I kinda don't think that was the case, but I could be wrong.
    Just tested this and the chi does degrade with about 2sec left on the cooldown. What I noticed last night was probably chi carrying over from previous pulls. Regardless, it's probably a good idea to hit Expel Harm prior to a pull, because every little bit helps.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    Hmmm have to try that tonight but 15 sec is pretty close to the rate of Chi degradation so still not sure it's possible to stack Chi outside of combat with it.
    I tested it right before I posted. It's impossible.

  13. #93
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    I tested it right before I posted. It's impossible.
    Shame we don't have access to Spinning Fire Blossom like the other thread, would have to find a way to force yourself locked in combat for pre-pull Chi generation to be possible =(

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  14. #94
    Does Clash generate a chi?

    If so you can EH then Clash a pull.

  15. #95
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    No Clash doesn't cost or generate resources. Yes you could generate 1 Chi with EH and then pull (DH or Clash) but you are basically giving up the early heal while EH is on CD for the start (and usually heaviest hitting part) of the fight.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  16. #96
    Bah...charge generates Rage so I figured the Monk version would too

    Ah well...

  17. #97
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Clash is also very buggy, I'm not sure if it's related to me having the Glyph and the server just doesn't know how to work out the extra distance. Lot of time I'll rush to where I'm supposed to be and cast the AoE stun but the target mob has only made it like half way to me, very annoying.

    That and the fact you don't even get to move on "immune" targets and it eats the CD anyways...

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Monteverdi View Post
    I don't see how this is possible. 225k DPS is absurdly high, and without using blackout kick I HIGHLY doubt you're not taking a lot of damage.
    I think you may need to re-read my post. 225k is average, highest ive done on AoE packs is 275k (Scholo is my favorite dungeon because of the room before voss)

    "You should put Blackout Kick in there, 20% parry and shuffle is not only a damage reduction but also a damage boost, each time you parry you retaliate in damage.
    And i highly doubt you're talking about heroics, theres no way doing that rotation on a pack will not leave you struggling for HP, or atleast the healer, whos picking up your slack."

    To both of these, if i ever get into melee range of them, ya sure ill blackout kick, but I dont need the damage reduction from it, considering the mobs rarely even touch me. If i start losing threat i just keg toss, and kite. Ya im losing my parry damage, but it makes things SO easy on the healer, and i can do decent damage.
    As for heroics, ya heroics....463 ilvl, again with the damage, im not tanking them, im kiting them....on the AoE packs i do this on, the healer tends to come out with 75%+ mana

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    Shame we don't have access to Spinning Fire Blossom like the other thread, would have to find a way to force yourself locked in combat for pre-pull Chi generation to be possible =(
    Or be belf. Arcane Torrent + EH = 2 Chi pre-pull. I briefly considered going belf for this very reason.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Blueeagle View Post
    I think you may need to re-read my post. 225k is average, highest ive done on AoE packs is 275k (Scholo is my favorite dungeon because of the room before voss)

    "You should put Blackout Kick in there, 20% parry and shuffle is not only a damage reduction but also a damage boost, each time you parry you retaliate in damage.
    And i highly doubt you're talking about heroics, theres no way doing that rotation on a pack will not leave you struggling for HP, or atleast the healer, whos picking up your slack."

    To both of these, if i ever get into melee range of them, ya sure ill blackout kick, but I dont need the damage reduction from it, considering the mobs rarely even touch me. If i start losing threat i just keg toss, and kite. Ya im losing my parry damage, but it makes things SO easy on the healer, and i can do decent damage.
    As for heroics, ya heroics....463 ilvl, again with the damage, im not tanking them, im kiting them....on the AoE packs i do this on, the healer tends to come out with 75%+ mana

    This just doesn't add up. Again, 225k is fairly absurd from what I've seen, and while I'm not ruling it out as impossible, I am going to say it's highly improbable that you're doing that much DPS as a Brewmaster while kiting. If you're not in melee range, how are you putting up such ridiculous numbers?

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