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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Blueeagle View Post
    http://imgur.com/95CVy

    There is a link to the damage meters of last night, sorry for no individual break down, ill work on that next.
    well blow me down. Kudos to you sir.

  2. #122
    I disagree with the OP and Agree.

    Disagree that using SCK is useless, with many small adds or tanking a huge boss it can be difficult to pick up other targets and SCK can do the job, it has it's use.

    However, I agree that it isn't the best to use this, there are far better things you can spend your energy with.

    Ultimately it comes down to two important priorities that all tanks must master:

    1: Keep Aggro.
    2: Take less damage.

  3. #123
    Legendary! Sorrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dakara View Post
    I'm thinking probably this.

    As a MW Monk, I had a BrM tank on my last heroic. I could heal him in my sleep on single target encounters. AoE Packs however.... yea... on one occasion I couldn't keep him alive, and actually had an easier time healing the DPS Deathknight who came to rescue. I was literally having tho channel Soothing Mist to spam instant Surging mists and Enveloping every 3 Chi. Needless to say I was oom after every pull.
    Almost sounds like me the other night LOL. Yeah i f'd up as a brewmaster i wasyed chi instea dof guarding. Still in 70s but yeah.

  4. #124
    Bads are just bads...


    I've q'd as WW and seen horrible tanks, to which I asked the healer if he wanted me to switch and handle it for him (in this occasion he was bitching as his health was dipping at times and the healer said he was squishy...it was a Warrior I beleive or a DK...can never tell them apart).

    We finished the dungeon with the warrior/dk running behind us trying to cause us trouble pulling packs and such.

    SCK to the rescue...

  5. #125
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    DK's don't use shields, REALLY bad warriors don't use them either =P

    BrM do so much damage from vengeance (especially in AoE) it's almost hard to find the point of WW in 5man's. Could easily see 2-3 of them running in and just sharing the damage and AoE'ing away like crazy people. Single target can be a little low but I always beat out at least 1 DPS even solo mob fights.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  6. #126
    Stood in the Fire valiorik's Avatar
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    Monks are worst tank at the moment. SCK or not they are weak. Or I was so unlucky with all 100500 monk tanks I met recently.

    P.S.: I play only at 90. Maybe they are cool for levelling, but in end game monk-a-tank sux hard.
    Last edited by valiorik; 2012-10-09 at 03:26 PM.
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  7. #127
    Brewmaster Brittany's Avatar
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    As a healer, I'll go with a Monk tank, and I'll give them time.

    You had exactly the same issues with DK tanks. You would hope Monks are better starting from 1, but given that most Monk 90's have levelled so fast they haven't really learnt their class.

    You either just refuse to go with them for a bit, or you put up with their mistakes, which they will make, because they're learning a class thats kinda important to the group survival. Would probably be the same thing going with a monk healer.

    Players who are used to tanking/healing mechanics will be better than those who rolled their first healer/tank as a Monk and powerlevelled to 90, thats just logic.
    Last edited by Brittany; 2012-10-09 at 03:30 PM.

  8. #128
    Of course you use SCK when tanking 3+ mobs, keg smash on CD and no chi available.
    Using jab to build up chi in that case would be a complete waste of dps.

  9. #129
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by valiorik View Post
    Monks are worst tank at the moment. SCK or not they are weak. Or I was so unlucky with all 100500 monk tanks I met recently.
    Odds are they were all baddies. Unless they frequent boards for guides, set up WA and other mods, ect they are probably doing something wrong or doing what OP said and just spamming SCK/BoF with almost zero mitigation up (at least they can accidentally pick up GotO orbs).

    I barely had the ilevel to queue for heroics when I hit 90 and healer friend indicated I wasn't any harder to heal through dungeons then the other random tanks he had been grouping with.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by valiorik View Post
    Monks are worst tank at the moment. SCK or not they are weak. Or I was so unlucky with all 100500 monk tanks I met recently.

    P.S.: I play only at 90. Maybe they are cool for levelling, but in end game monk-a-tank sux hard.
    Hmm my ability to cover 65-70% of my own healing on Stone Guards, Feng, and Gara'Jal through guard and expel harm plus all of the raiding healing I provide through GotO says otherwise....

    Clearly you know nothing at all about monks because they are pretty badass tanks. So kindly refrain from calling monks bad tanks just because there are a lot of bads out there. Blood dk 2.0!
    Last edited by Samsarathedk; 2012-10-09 at 04:58 PM.

  11. #131
    DKs, paladins, and even druids do a fair amount of self-healing too; these specs are balanced with that in mind. Remember that BrM is the only tank spec without any real armor to speak of. Every other tank has roughly the same armor for physical mitigation, either through actually wearing plate+shield or baseline passives. Stagger is supposed to make up for that. The real question is how much effective healing BrM requires from the healers over encounters as compared to other tank specs.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by valiorik View Post
    Monks are worst tank at the moment. SCK or not they are weak. Or I was so unlucky with all 100500 monk tanks I met recently.

    P.S.: I play only at 90. Maybe they are cool for levelling, but in end game monk-a-tank sux hard.
    I went through 90% of several heroics where my healer kept saying he was bored as shit because he wasn't doing any healing. Brewmasters are great tanks, but require good players in order to be such.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    DKs, paladins, and even druids do a fair amount of self-healing too; these specs are balanced with that in mind. Remember that BrM is the only tank spec without any real armor to speak of. Every other tank has roughly the same armor for physical mitigation, either through actually wearing plate+shield or baseline passives. Stagger is supposed to make up for that. The real question is how much effective healing BrM requires from the healers over encounters as compared to other tank specs.
    Our Ox stance also reduces damage taken by 25% (I believe other tanks get a passive 10% reduction) but this is also supposed to help with less armor.

  14. #134
    Legendary! Sorrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brittany View Post
    As a healer, I'll go with a Monk tank, and I'll give them time.

    You had exactly the same issues with DK tanks. You would hope Monks are better starting from 1, but given that most Monk 90's have levelled so fast they haven't really learnt their class.

    You either just refuse to go with them for a bit, or you put up with their mistakes, which they will make, because they're learning a class thats kinda important to the group survival. Would probably be the same thing going with a monk healer.

    Players who are used to tanking/healing mechanics will be better than those who rolled their first healer/tank as a Monk and powerlevelled to 90, thats just logic.
    The other problem is that low level instances are so easy we're not even allowed to learn to tank right. I'm 75 right now and either getting almost perma shielded by holy priests or having people just dos like nuts not even caring. Other problems are out if whack DPS, people just attacking willy nilly, pulling whole rooms or even just pulling in general. We live sure but even if i die(only once or twice and my fault for bad chi management i admit) it doesn't matter and THAT is a problem in my mind. It's so tuned for endgame that at lower levels we're often not able to properly train/practice.

  15. #135
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    DKs, paladins, and even druids do a fair amount of self-healing too; these specs are balanced with that in mind. Remember that BrM is the only tank spec without any real armor to speak of. Every other tank has roughly the same armor for physical mitigation, either through actually wearing plate+shield or baseline passives. Stagger is supposed to make up for that. The real question is how much effective healing BrM requires from the healers over encounters as compared to other tank specs.
    Well BrMs make up for that deficiency in a number of ways.

    -Guard is on a relatively short CD. No other tank has an absorption shield with a 30 second CD and a 30 second uptime.
    -Shuffle boosts parry chance and stagger amount. Making monks harder to damage, and increasing the chance for Swift Reflexes passive.
    -Elusive Brew offers an additional 30% chance to dodge, and is almost always available.
    -Monks have a lot of self healing abilities.

    Monks are simply a different type of tank.

  16. #136
    Shuffle is better before the SCK because dodge/parry works during the SCK and shuffle augments that. If you don't proc shuffle, then only thing saving your ass during the sck is your guard on top of your native dodge/parry.

    Hey I can contribute as well as anyone. So let's see some numbers to know what is actually right.

    Perhaps Brawler's Guild will finally be the place for this sort of testing.
    Last edited by Ivalen; 2012-10-12 at 01:46 PM.

  17. #137
    Mechagnome BigpapaBeef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoskadosk View Post
    Yeah, you're basically asking bad Monks to stop being bad.
    Monks are the new Dks. every idiot and their dog has one. and the quickest way to gear is tank/healer. bad monks ( like bad Dks ) are here to stay.

  18. #138
    Why is "SCK" bad? Really bad formulated OP.
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  19. #139
    Scarab Lord Unholyground's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Nothing gets me more angry than seeing Monk tanks SCK-tanking. It's the dumbest thing ever, and leads to a swift death for you and your entire party.

    Listen, I understand you think that SCKing everything in sight over and over again is a great way to AoE tank, but it isn't. It's just a fast way to piss off your healer and get everyone in the group killed.

    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE learn how to play a Monk tank. Please do this before you give all Monks a bad name.
    Ya it was ok from 1-50 but TBC + its stupid when a good Keg Smash and BoF suffices for AOE damage lol, I agree it is dumb my friend, especially when your avoidance from shuffle/elusive brew is useless while spinning.

    Also I saw someone mention that the shuffle and dodge does work while spinning, OP is talking about the ones that care not about facing while spinning and just spin their asses letting mobs hit them from behind which makes avoidance useless.
    Last edited by Unholyground; 2012-10-12 at 02:19 PM.
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  20. #140
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trollfaced View Post
    Why is "SCK" bad? Really bad formulated OP.
    Because you can spam it in AoE situations and completely neglect Guard/Shuffle buff. At lower levels it's probably not that big of a deal but at 90 it makes your healers cry.

    RJW is a great talent to help with this in 5 mans.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

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