World First Race:

TJ · 2012-10-10, 10:06 PM

BL and Wraith up to 3 down.

**SamR** · 2012-10-10, 10:17 PM

Looks like Paragon is going to handily beat Crimson Blade, Fierce, and Swims in Lava in their race.

**Keyur** · 2012-10-10, 10:21 PM

Yeah paragon's 9 people have boss kill on wowprogress and from armory it seems Lezil doesn't logged off yet.

**Hermanni** · 2012-10-10, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by DarthThrall

Any your opinion matters why?

Only a Paragon member can come out and say that for it to be taken seriously. Otherwise go away please.

I thought you might be trolling but I'm not sure if you're even capable of that. It shouldn't matter where I come from for my argument to stand. My opinion matters at least as much as yours, and I daresay I put a lot more thought and a lot less bias to mine than you did when posting any of your posts.

This thread is filled with kindergarten level debate because people like you can't consider two different things to actually be separate entities but instead have to come up with arbitrary arguments about which one is more important and why the other one shouldn't be taken into consideration at all. Anyone who played both modes early enough in the content cycle knows how different they are, and nobody can efficiently compete in both at the same time. There's 2 separate "races" going on, and whether or not you acknowledge it it irrelevant.

**Diivil** · 2012-10-10, 11:49 PM

Paragon at 5/6 =) The next 10 man guilds still at 2/6 =(

**Theiea** · 2012-10-10, 11:50 PM

Paragon might clear the place in 1 day o_O

**SamR** · 2012-10-10, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by Diivil

Paragon at 5/6 =) The next 10 man guilds still at 2/6 =(

Because most of the hardcore raiders are in 25 man guilds. You know, the ones who spent days grinding and buying everything they could to give themselves every possible advantage. Paragon is the outlier because they're applying 25-man raiding hardcoreness to the 10-man race and just blowing everyone else out of the water.

That's why people care more about 25 man raiding.

**Amalisa** · 2012-10-10, 11:57 PM

Gogo Method

TJ · 2012-10-11, 12:36 AM

Paragon taking everyone to school.

**MaxJr** · 2012-10-11, 12:46 AM

Pff Paragon is doing 10man, its not an opinion but a fact that 10 man at least in mogushan vaults is a joke compared to 25, ive seen several guilds get stuck in a boss in 25man for hours, then they switch to 10man and 1shot it.

TJ · 2012-10-11, 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by MaxJr

Pff Paragon is doing 10man, its not an opinion but a fact that 10 man at least in mogushan vaults is a joke compared to 25, ive seen several guilds get stuck in a boss in 25man for hours, then they switch to 10man and 1shot it.

Whilst true, 10 mans in the past haven't been this far ahead.

**Grevie** · 2012-10-11, 12:56 AM

I can see 2 separate Races Here, and it's clear Paragon is way superior than any other 10 man out of there.
Why? the answer is super simple, just do the math.

**Intoeternity** · 2012-10-11, 12:58 AM

Originally Posted by MaxJr

Pff Paragon is doing 10man, its not an opinion but a fact that 10 man at least in mogushan vaults is a joke compared to 25, ive seen several guilds get stuck in a boss in 25man for hours, then they switch to 10man and 1shot it.

Yeah obviously...

Percentage of kills...

25 Normal Stone Guard: (97.78%) vs 10 Normal Stone Guard: (95.26%)
25 Heroic Stone Guard: (10.35%) vs 10 Heroic Stone Guard: (1.09%)
25 Normal Feng: (73.07%) vs 10 Normal Feng: (66.06%)
25 Heroic Feng: (2.39%) vs 10 Heroic Feng: (0.21%)

10 heroic is obviously easier

**starkey** · 2012-10-11, 01:03 AM

Then you would think being easier, more guilds would be doing 10 mans

**Intoeternity** · 2012-10-11, 01:04 AM

More guilds are doing 10 mans... the balance of kills between 25 and 10 show the difficulty differences. People are just too blind or bandwagon happy to see it.

**Grevie** · 2012-10-11, 01:06 AM

Originally Posted by Intoeternity

Yeah obviously...

Percentage of kills...

25 Normal Stone Guard: (97.78%) vs 10 Normal Stone Guard: (95.26%)
25 Heroic Stone Guard: (10.35%) vs 10 Heroic Stone Guard: (1.09%)
25 Normal Feng: (73.07%) vs 10 Normal Feng: (66.06%)
25 Heroic Feng: (2.39%) vs 10 Heroic Feng: (0.21%)

10 heroic is obviously easier

Or the quality of players on 25 is better than 10 man, we can assume alot of things, but right now
the Data show me than paragon players are way superior than any other 10 man guild around.

Try to compare 10 vrs 25 will not give any productive result, because if you play in a 10 man
guild you must see what the other 10 man guilds are doing and if you play in a 25 man guild
you must check the rest 25 man guild.

Right now for me 25 guilds are on close competition, but on 10 man Paragon is showing the
the real quality of their 10 man competition.

**Intoeternity** · 2012-10-11, 01:10 AM

Originally Posted by Grevie

Try to compare 10 vrs 25 will not give any productive result.

Sure it does. Look at the numbers. People saying 10 is easier are not speaking from experience after this one night of heroic raiding. They are speaking from previous expansions. Yes 10 was easier last expansion. We're two days into heroics and people are still saying the same thing.. but the thing is, the people saying it are the people that have yet to try both 10 and 25 heroic stone guard.

**Papapwn** · 2012-10-11, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by TJ

Whilst true, 10 mans in the past haven't been this far ahead.

Doesnt matter, its common sense that its harder to lead 25 people than to lead 10 people. Also every single top end raider wants to be doing 25 mans since thats what matters and thus the quality of 10 man guilds wont ever be as good as the few top end 25 man guilds.

25 man raiding will always be better than 10 simply for the fact that its way harder to lead more people and thus more challenging. I love how when paragon was 25m everyone would discount 10 man guilds. lolhypocrites

**Grevie** · 2012-10-11, 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by Intoeternity

Sure it does. Look at the numbers. People saying 10 is easier are not speaking from experience after this one night of heroic raiding. They are speaking from previous expansions. Yes 10 was easier last expansion. We're two days into heroics and people are still saying the same thing.. but the thing is, the people saying it are the people that have yet to try both 10 and 25 heroic stone guard.

No, it does not, the numbers say nothing , lets >assume< (that the key word), what about if i take your numbers and i say more semihardcore players choose to play 10 man, so that will "probably" explain why the numbers are like that, and why Paragon is
5/16 and the competition is 2/16, and i'm just assuming, i'm not stating a fact.

**SamR** · 2012-10-11, 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by Intoeternity

Sure it does. Look at the numbers. People saying 10 is easier are not speaking from experience after this one night of heroic raiding. They are speaking from previous expansions. Yes 10 was easier last expansion. We're two days into heroics and people are still saying the same thing.. but the thing is, the people saying it are the people that have yet to try both 10 and 25 heroic stone guard.

We'll see it on Monday. If any 25-man guilds stuck on a heroic 25 boss switch to heroic 10 to kill the boss before the reset.

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