HoTW hidden nerf

[stormgust]

I'm very surprised no one brought up Shadow Priests yet.

You are missing the point of the entire skill. The skill was not designed to give you the power to two-shot people. The skill was designed to give you utility in dungeons and raids. The 6% increase to all stats is great withinitself, but throw in the ability to do things outside of your spec, and do them well, and you have a great talent.

The skill was designed to allow druids to perform at 100% of a target role, that's exactly the utility it's supposed to provide. If you limited the toolkit on the other hand, neccesarily this entails crazy numbers. The "creative use of game mechanics" associated with this design, as well as the "less than 100% scenario" have been repeatedly discussed here as well as on the beta boards. Up to now we saw the "creative use of game mechanics" case, while after the nerf we may very well be in the "less than 100%" case. Or maybe even with the nerf all we've seen was the tip of the iceberg in the former case, and only once heroics start and the arena season is very well in progress we'll see just how broken HotW is on a conceptual level :>

[dennisdkramer]

I was doing 200k with pot/trinket up during hotw, falling to 140k by the end of the CD at which time it was my turn to taunt and tank.

Sure, as feral it is no longer the strongest pve sustained dps option (I assume DoC will be better as per sims) but even with a 30% nerf it is STILL overpowered for guardian (and probably resto) pve. Even if it only does 98k dps for the duration as guardian, I'll still use it.

[Conatzer]

It's still doing a pretty high amount of damage, training dummy, with basically no procs until the very last wrath, they were hitting for 147,709 as feral still with weapon swapping, and I had 1/22 crits for 291,034. On Elegon attempts, Wrath was still my top damage, accounting for 7 million damage, and I saw 700-800k crits

[teddabear]

If it is no longer a DPS gain then the CD should be changed to 2 minutes.

[Sähäri]

Lol the spell was obviously bugging

[Etapicx]

Can someone post logs of ss confirming this nerf in the view of Feral going Balance since i've heard alot different answers from diffrent players.

[Elunedra]

i dont got any logs about it and i espcailly diidnt make a log when it was still powerfull but i can confirm that my wrath and hurricane do less damamge now, no more 115K hit and 230K crits

also even if its not a dps gain then the cooldown should stay at 6 minutes, as its rediculy overpowered to have a druid perform 2 roles in a single fight, think about challenge modes where you tank starts dpsing when the boss fly's in the air, such meschnics where never balanced around

[Oak-qt]

it did not need a nerf, yes i was top melee dps using it but i was no where near top dps for the overall raid, shame they don't look at these sort of things.

Gonna mis my 1.4m crits of wraith on elagon :P

[teddabear]

i dont got any logs about it and i espcailly diidnt make a log when it was still powerfull but i can confirm that my wrath and hurricane do less damamge now, no more 115K hit and 230K crits

also even if its not a dps gain then the cooldown should stay at 6 minutes, as its rediculy overpowered to have a druid perform 2 roles in a single fight, think about challenge modes where you tank starts dpsing when the boss fly's in the air, such meschnics where never balanced around

Seriously? You think Feral is OP for challenge modes? So far it appears challenge modes are more about CDs for soaking or avoiding damage.

[xrayEU]

Seriously? You think Feral is OP for challenge modes? I think Feral is non-viable in challenge modes.

The first page of challenge mode times are full of ferals.

[Alzu]

Seriously? You think Feral is OP for challenge modes? So far it appears challenge modes are more about CDs for soaking or avoiding damage.

Well, our feral did ~400k-ish dps on the first 2 packs on Shado-pan Monastery (double pull, bloodlust and potions). That was with HotW.

[Mokka]

id love this talent to enable me to do ~80% DPS of a feral. However, without bleeds, this could still lead to too much burst because of ferocious bite. Despite being MEGA FUN for me to build 5 combo points on a target and then pop HotW and slit his throat when his HP dips "low", this is broken and gets old fast

~80% dps of a feral with a 3 min CD would be AWESOME. of course, the duration would have to be shorter. 25-30 seconds i suppose.

[Elunedra]

it did not need a nerf, yes i was top melee dps using it but i was no where near top dps for the overall raid, shame they don't look at these sort of things.

then that a different issue you should not need HotW to do competive dps

[Mokka]

then that a different issue you should not need HotW to do competitive dps

considering the last talent tier aims at increasing DPS (as well as let you do other roles to some extent of course), i beg to differ.

edit: BUT of course you mean the active, not the passive 6%, in which case you are absolutely right. Sorry lunch lazyness

[teddabear]

The first page of challenge mode times are full of ferals.

What site are you looking at? Druids seem to be evenly split between Resto, Balance and Feral with a handful of Guardians. If you are looking for specs that are severely OP for Challenge runs it is very obviously Blood DKs and Elemental Shamans.



I didn't see the link at first, they might want to use a more noticeable color for that. The first page is only 12 groups, there are 9 Druids on that page, 3 Feral, 3 Balance, 3 Resto. If you look deeper at the first few pages of all Challenge runs Feral is weakest Druid spec. If it weren't for Kharum Feral would hardly have any representation at all.

[stormgust]

id love this talent to enable me to do ~80% DPS of a feral. However, without bleeds, this could still lead to too much burst because of ferocious bite. Despite being MEGA FUN for me to build 5 combo points on a target and then pop HotW and slit his throat when his HP dips "low", this is broken and gets old fast

~80% dps of a feral with a 3 min CD would be AWESOME. of course, the duration would have to be shorter. 25-30 seconds i suppose.

We had hybrid penalty once. It didn't work out back then, so why exactly should it work out this time?
People do not want 80%, not 90%. It has to be 100% or you're merely a gimmick, nothing honestly needed.
A limited toolkit just makes things worse actually. You usually lack tools to do well at a tool, and if you want to fix it by numbers alone, you run into a balancing nightmare.

My bet is that mid season 12 this talent won't be taken for any other reasons than to slightly buff Tranquility and to provide a passive stat increase.

[Mokka]

We had hybrid penalty once. It didn't work out back then, so why exactly should it work out this time?
People do not want 80%, not 90%. It has to be 100% or you're merely a gimmick, nothing honestly needed.

you are talking about two completely different things. hybrid penalty is a decrease of your performance in your primary spec. look at the other two talents of that tier, they make you a hybrid of sorts.

I just realized I forgot to mention outright that I am a resto in my first post. apologies.

[Oak-qt]

then that a different issue you should not need HotW to do competive dps

if a melee dps is doing more then raged on pretty much all fights in msv then the raid is failing.

[Etapicx]

Feral going balance still seem to be in the same shape.
130-200 hits depending if i have procs or not and 400-480k crits depending on procs self buffed on dummy.

[Elunedra]

Feral going balance still seem to be in the same shape.
130-200 hits depending if i have procs or not and 400-480k crits depending on procs self buffed on dummy.

intresting then it might be bugged rather then stealth fixed, as it seems to only affect certain players then