1. #1

    Stone guard 10 - opinions/advice

    1. Considering general mechanics and damage output from tanking two at once @ 460 ilvl Approx, 425k HP pre raid buffed I was leaning towards sword shattering. Thoughts? Two pally healers and one monk healer. Might two heal if dps is too low.

    2. What are your thoughts on this specific encounter regarding avoidance vs hit/exp reforging?

    3. I was considering dropping amz considering that if executed correctly, the debuff from petrified on overload should be enough damage reduction, no? What choice do you think would be optimal for that tier on this encounter specifically?

    Our raid comp btw is;
    2x holy pallies
    1x monk healer
    1x prot war
    1x arms war
    2x locks, specs unsure atm
    1x bm hunter
    1x combat rogue
    1x blood dk

    Appreciate the input.

  2. #2
    Pandaren Monk Zethras's Avatar
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    Sword shattering is the go-to rune for Blood dks.

    It's a %, so it will never suffer from diminishing returns, and 4% parry, especially at the gear level we're at now, is quite a lot.
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  3. #3
    used sword shattering
    went mastery>parry>dodge>hit=exp
    idk about the stat priority, heard arguments for and against it, I guess if you need more raid dps, hit and dodge might be better, but for survivability? well DS gives the heal and shield even if it misses and rune strike can never miss, so didn't seem worth it to me

    but I am by no means an expert ^^

  4. #4
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    1 - While 4% may seem like a lot, SSG is the go to for progression raiding, especially at the beginning of an xpac. Your total avoidance is usually low enough where the 4% isn't adding as much as you'd like - and the stam (more stam = more room to breath) + armor (mitigating damage on every single physical hit at all time) proves to be more synergetic with mastery (which you'll be stacking the hell out of)

    2 - I would highly suggest against hit/exp as a DK as long as they still give you the heal/absorb from DS missing, etc - you won't really have an issue taunt swapping, I promise

    3 - AMZ is nice if you are slow on taunts/making sure ONLY the correct one is going off. You have 2 aura masteries + whatever monks have (no idea if they have a raid CD tbh) - but if you find yourselves needing more raid cds, amz is nice - I personally didn't need the other 2 and while I didn't use AMZ, it felt nice knowing I had it for them if we did need it

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  5. #5
    Hit/expertise is almost entirely useless. It's not needed for high DPS, that's for sure. You want mastery on every single piece of equipment, and after that reforge to parry and dodge (keeping a good ratio). Your runeforge doesn't really matter, you can easily get away with using FC, which I do. If you do want to use a more defensive runeforge, Swordshatter is a lot better.
    AMZ can be good if used correctly, however Lichborne is extremely good and will easily top you in 1 or 2 coils, if needed.

  6. #6
    This is getting weird now. I see from so many different sources for and against Hit/expertise cap. In elitistjerks (I am just referring to a well known resource, I am not into worshiping anyone here) say that apart from mastery, there are 2 ways o gear/reforge; avoidance and hit/exp. Now, I chose hit/exp cap reforging out avoidance stats.

    Here most guys say that hit/exp are useless (useless is exaggerated imo), while in an other thread here people say that it is viable. All these may confuse people btw.

  7. #7
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayaleith View Post
    This is getting weird now. I see from so many different sources for and against Hit/expertise cap. In elitistjerks (I am just referring to a well known resource, I am not into worshiping anyone here) say that apart from mastery, there are 2 ways o gear/reforge; avoidance and hit/exp. Now, I chose hit/exp cap reforging out avoidance stats.

    Here most guys say that hit/exp are useless (useless is exaggerated imo), while in an other thread here people say that it is viable. All these may confuse people btw.
    It's easy.

    First of all there is not a best way to optimize our survivability and there isn't a way that is useless. There are two ways: avoidance and accuracy. Avoidance is more about RNG while accuracy is more stable. In this fight you may prefer one or the other according to your role (tanking one or two guards) and, after all, the one you choose won't affect that much your overall damage taken.

    As for runeforging I'd take SSG, there is too much non physical damage involved and stamina is our best stat at the moment; SS is quite good if you tank 2 guards but other than that I've never liked it. RFC no, please no, you are not a pro if you use that runeforge, if you want more dps go for accuracy.

    AMZ is the best talent, imho, for this fight: if things go wrong it can save the day.

  8. #8
    1. I did it with 496k hp using 1 stamina trinket 464 ilvl and swordshattering thursday. 500k hp seems enough EH specially on 10man. How come your hp is so low?
    2. hit/expertise is only for dps not really needed but nice for boosting tankdps, first boss is not a dps check like some other fights in there.
    3. I used purgatory, AMZ isn't needed unless you make mistakes taunting the guardians.

    The cobalt mines are huge cluttering up the room that was the only issue once we got the taunting back and forth sorted, the tank with 1 mob can clear up some of the mines and you can move down the room during the fight. Good luck

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Italiandk View Post
    It's easy.

    First of all there is not a best way to optimize our survivability and there isn't a way that is useless. There are two ways: avoidance and accuracy. Avoidance is more about RNG while accuracy is more stable. In this fight you may prefer one or the other according to your role (tanking one or two guards) and, after all, the one you choose won't affect that much your overall damage taken.

    As for runeforging I'd take SSG, there is too much non physical damage involved and stamina is our best stat at the moment; SS is quite good if you tank 2 guards but other than that I've never liked it. RFC no, please no, you are not a pro if you use that runeforge, if you want more dps go for accuracy.

    AMZ is the best talent, imho, for this fight: if things go wrong it can save the day.
    I don't see how hit/exp provides any measurable survivability whatsoever. The only way it can increase survivability is RP generation -> more runes -> more DS, but that amount is so miniscule it is entirely negligible. None of the runeforges are particularly impressive, but FC is definitely viable for tanking as it gives ~2% parry with great uptime and a decent heal, coupled with a significant DPS increase.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Hartst View Post
    I don't see how hit/exp provides any measurable survivability whatsoever. The only way it can increase survivability is RP generation -> more runes -> more DS, but that amount is so miniscule it is entirely negligible. None of the runeforges are particularly impressive, but FC is definitely viable for tanking as it gives ~2% parry with great uptime and a decent heal, coupled with a significant DPS increase.
    More melee swings hitting = more scent of blood, I believe thats what makes it viable.

  11. #11
    Quote from EJ's list of changes in MOP's DEATH STRIKE:

    "- Death Strike is back to it's pre-4.2 incarnation: If it misses or is avoided, you don't lose the Runes but neither do you get the heal/Blood Shield. In return though, Death Strike cannot be parried anymore so once you gear for the spell hit cap it will always land (that's 7.5% Hit and Expertise each)."

    So, if you miss your DS's, you don't get healed. This pretty much adds value to hit and exp.
    I have to get home today to test it out.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by DeusX View Post
    Quote from EJ's list of changes in MOP's DEATH STRIKE:

    "- Death Strike is back to it's pre-4.2 incarnation: If it misses or is avoided, you don't lose the Runes but neither do you get the heal/Blood Shield. In return though, Death Strike cannot be parried anymore so once you gear for the spell hit cap it will always land (that's 7.5% Hit and Expertise each)."

    So, if you miss your DS's, you don't get healed. This pretty much adds value to hit and exp.
    I have to get home today to test it out.
    Thats what blizz said indeed, but we've had multiple tests and it heals+shields on miss/dodge aswell. Try it for yourself if you like :P Just wish blizz would confirm if its intended on bugged, though I expect intended since its been like that for a while now and pointed out quite a lot.

  13. #13
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deathgrinder View Post
    1. Considering general mechanics and damage output from tanking two at once @ 460 ilvl Approx, 425k HP pre raid buffed I was leaning towards sword shattering. Thoughts? Two pally healers and one monk healer. Might two heal if dps is too low.

    2. What are your thoughts on this specific encounter regarding avoidance vs hit/exp reforging?

    3. I was considering dropping amz considering that if executed correctly, the debuff from petrified on overload should be enough damage reduction, no? What choice do you think would be optimal for that tier on this encounter specifically?

    Our raid comp btw is;
    2x holy pallies
    1x monk healer
    1x prot war
    1x arms war
    2x locks, specs unsure atm
    1x bm hunter
    1x combat rogue
    1x blood dk

    Appreciate the input.
    So we downed it the first night. I was the OT tanking the single one and calling out the swaps to keep energy low.

    1 - Swordshattering is still the best. With our boost to stamina + food + flask you should be fine on stamina. The extra 2% doesn't beat the DR-ignoring 4% parry chance

    2 - Stick with mastery. They hit hard, so be ready with your death strikes. I see little reason to get hit/exp in this case as I had no issue building with SoB and threat

    3 - AMZ was very useful for me to drop on the grouped-up raid if we made a mistake and more than one, or the wrong, overload occurred. I would keep it since there isn't much else to take in that tier



  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by DeusX View Post
    Quote from EJ's list of changes in MOP's DEATH STRIKE:

    "- Death Strike is back to it's pre-4.2 incarnation: If it misses or is avoided, you don't lose the Runes but neither do you get the heal/Blood Shield. In return though, Death Strike cannot be parried anymore so once you gear for the spell hit cap it will always land (that's 7.5% Hit and Expertise each)."

    So, if you miss your DS's, you don't get healed. This pretty much adds value to hit and exp.
    I have to get home today to test it out.
    Seems I still loose runes on a DS miss and get healed by it, last boss in shadow pan monestary gives 90% miss chance when at full rage decent place to test it

  15. #15
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbad View Post
    Seems I still loose runes on a DS miss and get healed by it, last boss in shadow pan monestary gives 90% miss chance when at full rage decent place to test it
    That isn't true any more. At all. That did change temporarily in beta, but I've never seen it fail to heal or shield me even if it missed at any point in raid or dungeons.

    Edit: I mean to quote your quoted post. I'm referring to that, not you, bigbad



  16. #16
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hartst View Post
    I don't see how hit/exp provides any measurable survivability whatsoever. The only way it can increase survivability is RP generation -> more runes -> more DS, but that amount is so miniscule it is entirely negligible. None of the runeforges are particularly impressive, but FC is definitely viable for tanking as it gives ~2% parry with great uptime and a decent heal, coupled with a significant DPS increase.
    It's negligible like +1% on parry/dodge is, I mean everything counts. Maybe avoidance is better than accuracy at the moment but who knows? We are just making some guess.
    RotFC is viable? Of course. RotFC is optimal? No, it's not. People were tanking in DPS gear back in DS, was that viable? Of course, they did. Was it optimal? Ask them if they did it when DS was the actual content.

  17. #17
    Just play around with both specs, I don't really see much of a difference yet but I have only done normal mode vaults so too early to tell :P

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