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  1. #1

    Tiger's Brew on CD vs 10 stack

    Has anyone done the math on using tiger's brew on CD vs using it every 10 stacks? If you use it on CD you get about 3-4 stacks with 100% uptime. This has given me a DPS increase in raid. I figure having a sustained 6-8% dps increase active throughout all trinket/weapon/buff procs might be outweighing having a 20% buff when procs could possibly be on ICD or delaying usage for when procs do lineup.

    Anyone napkin math what the actual % is over a X length fight when only using it at 10 stacks vs 6-8% for the total duration? I tried it in simcraft but the results were about even. Trying it on dummy and in raid was significant.
    Last edited by Faids; 2012-10-16 at 05:51 PM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Faids View Post
    Has anyone done the math on using tiger's brew on CD vs using it every 10 stacks? If you use it on CD you get about 3-4 stacks with 100% uptime. This has given me a DPS increase in raid. I figure having a sustained 6-8% dps increase active throughout all trinket/weapon/buff procs might be outweighing having a 20% buff when procs could possibly be on ICD or delaying usage for when procs do lineup.

    Anyone napkin math what the actual % is over a X length fight when only using it at 10 stacks vs 6-8% for the total duration? I tried it in simcraft but the results were about even. Trying it on dummy and in raid was significant.
    In the absence of any other transient effects (temporary buffs, procs, fight mechanics) then it doesn't matter when you use your stacks. 9 stacks for 15 seconds or 3 stacks for 45 seconds is the same amount of added damage. There are some edge effects, but over the course of a long fight they will average out.

    The difference, as you have correctly determined, is the interaction with procs. You should be aiming to use as many stacks as possible during procs over the course of the fight - whether that means drinking every 3 stacks or every 7 or every 10, that's when you should be doing it. As long as you're not capped and losing stacks to the 10 limit, you're not losing damage by waiting for a proc to drink them. So wait for the proc (or bloodlust, or boss burn phase with increased damage taken, or whatever).

  3. #3
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...rRkVmbkE#gid=0 is a spreadsheet I found over at EJ. It averages out the damage increase over a 10 minute boss fight.

    According to this, using it at 7 stacks is a 0.05% increase over using it constantly at 3 stacks.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...rRkVmbkE#gid=0 is a spreadsheet I found over at EJ. It averages out the damage increase over a 10 minute boss fight.

    According to this, using it at 7 stacks is a 0.05% increase over using it constantly at 3 stacks.
    It only looks like that because of a copy-paste error in the 7 stack from I63-I68. It should take 4 rows to reach 1.14, but for that set it only takes one. If the spreadsheet were fixed, then 7 stacks would drop to 105.79%, which is .06% below a rolling 3 stack. The reason the %'s are different at all, is because some stack counts synchronize with the 10 minute timer better. Change the time sample at all and all the outcomes will change and vie to match a 3 stack except for rolling a 3 stack will always remain optimal.

    I fixed the guy's spreadsheet and here it is: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...UNYSW54YlZCU1E

    A 3 stack will always perform as optimally as any stack count that would fade and synchronize perfectly with the end of a fight. In fact, you can stack to any amount you want, but you can reach the optimal damage boost by rolling a 3 stack if the boss will die before re-stacking and using a full 15 second buff.

    You can see that demonstrated on page 2 of the above spread sheet. If the stack cannot re-stack and make use of the full 15 second buff, then it just rolls a 1.06 for the remainder of the fight. All stacks end up with a 105.85% damage boost. Take a look at column N - It samples for all of the stack counts and still finishes the fight with a 105.85% because it doesn't waste any stacks at the end of the fight like the stacks do on page 1.

    TL;DR - It doens't matter how high or low you stack as long as you don't waste them either by not using them before the fight is over or using chi past a 10 stack. Theoretically, though you could get higher DPS by using this cooldown while using other cooldowns.
    Last edited by JRule; 2012-10-16 at 08:43 PM.

  5. #5
    Which is why understanding the theory is important, not just the outputs of your favorite sim.

  6. #6
    Thanks guys, spreadsheet and your answers were what I was looking for.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by JRule View Post
    Post
    Great catch. Can't believe I missed that.

  8. #8
    has anyone had their brew removed at the beginning of the elegon fight? happened to me 3-4 times the other night.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurfisdurfis View Post
    has anyone had their brew removed at the beginning of the elegon fight? happened to me 3-4 times the other night.
    If you mean the stacks, they are always removed before a boss fight.

  10. #10
    It gets removed at the beginning of any boss fight. You have to use it prior to pull, or it gets removed. It was done this way to prevent Mistweaver's from stacking Mana Tea pre-fight. For some reason they never turned the code off for WW.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    It gets removed at the beginning of any boss fight. You have to use it prior to pull, or it gets removed. It was done this way to prevent Mistweaver's from stacking Mana Tea pre-fight. For some reason they never turned the code off for WW.
    I think it happens for Elusive Brew as well. I think it's intended across all specs.

  12. #12
    you can pop it before you +combat with pot and the best time to use stacks are with energizing brew and when it de-synchronize try to use with trinket procs and weapon procs for max damage output
    Last edited by shappo; 2012-10-17 at 12:31 AM.

  13. #13
    word thanks bros, i feel dumb now.

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