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  1. #1

    Warriors get the short stick again... this time protection

    And at the same time - what is said about blood Death Knights (who let me reiterate - solo everything possible and impossible + do challenge modes with 4 DPS) -
    While Blood Death Knights have been higher on damage than most other tanks, we’re expecting that the adjustments we’re making to the other tanking classes will close the gap. While we haven’t made any changes to Blood lately, we will be keeping a close eye on it.
    Ugh... so ummm... "Blood DK damage is too high but we nerfed prot warrior damage so everything will be fine now"? -.-

    I somehow lack to see the logic of this...

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morghie View Post
    And at the same time - what is said about blood Death Knights (who let me reiterate - solo everything possible and impossible + do challenge modes with 4 DPS) -


    Ugh... so ummm... "Blood DK damage is too high but we nerfed prot warrior damage so everything will be fine now"? -.-

    I somehow lack to see the logic of this...
    Yeah is it a bit strange. I have been healing so far this expansion and DK's are insanely easy to heal for the most part and they deal a tonne of damage. Warriors would be my 2nd prefered tank to heal, haven't had many druids and paladins just seem terribly squishy. Its a catch 22 for me, would love to see DK's bought inline with other tanks but then it also makes my job as a healer harder :P.

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral XepNes's Avatar
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    In addition according to the new blue post on the front page:
    50% less damage on deep wound for protection and revenge does 50% on second target and 25% on the 3rd target...

    I don't like how this is turning out :C sure I was usually second place on the dps in lfg (queued with a friend), but back to being last now I guess. Was fun while it lasted thought, but no more extreme group pulls. Well other tanks have a chance for the challenge modes now I guess our aoe was kinda high... Still sucks being nerfed, but I'll survive. Not the shortest stick, but I expect to see more changes soon.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Morghie View Post
    And at the same time - what is said about blood Death Knights (who let me reiterate - solo everything possible and impossible + do challenge modes with 4 DPS) -


    Ugh... so ummm... "Blood DK damage is too high but we nerfed prot warrior damage so everything will be fine now"? -.-

    I somehow lack to see the logic of this...
    The logic in this is that Blood DKs have far far less scaling with Vengeance than other tanks, same goes for their survivability. In 5-man and low-level content, they're better.

    You don't get balanced around 5-man heroics and challenge modes, you get balanced around heroic raids, and in heroic raids, blood DK damage is, at best, equal, and at worst, mediocre, when you compare them to the other tanks. The same logic goes with their survivability - in raids DKs get gibbed very easily, in 5mans they're virtually immortal. This is the design of the class, having the entire mitigation system being reactive instead of just a part of it.
    Without Vengeance (or very low amounts like you get in 5mans) DKs absolutely rock every other tanking class though, this is true.
    Last edited by Mionelol; 2012-10-03 at 03:10 AM.

  5. #5
    The post explains why I saw my revenges doing lower numbers. But I was tanking with it tonight and doing just fine. Granted, I play my tank to tank and not to dps. I don't see why there are so many Tanks that get upset over this. You're playing a class that's supposed to soak damage, if you get to deal some too, that's great. But any complaint about lowered damage isn't really justified.

    And the argument that "Well, X can do this!" - That's well and good, and something else being overpowered isn't an excuse for us to be overpowered too, they both need to be brought into line. Sure, it stinks, being nerfed is never fun, But I still crush in dungeons. Maybe not to the extent I used to, but I was doing 90k dps on the Sha boss in Shado-Pan Monastery (doing the achievement) as a Warrior.

    Though I don't have a timeframe as to when the hotfixes went out (though I assume they were a bit before the blue post, because..as stated, I noticed a decline in revenge damage on off targets, it might've just been a fluke though) I'm fairly certain I did that Sha kill with the nerfs active. All the trash leading up to him, I still led dps...vengeance is still crazy good. Just take a breath and relax. The sky is not falling.

  6. #6
    Pit Lord Naxere's Avatar
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    Suppose this was coming eventually. Getting 20k Deep Wounds ticks when pulling all of Professor Slate's room in Scholomance didn't seem intentional. I like how they said Blood DK damage was high too, but didn't give a shit.

  7. #7
    Bloodsail Admiral Asheriah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splatter View Post
    Yeah is it a bit strange. I have been healing so far this expansion and DK's are insanely easy to heal for the most part and they deal a tonne of damage. Warriors would be my 2nd prefered tank to heal, haven't had many druids and paladins just seem terribly squishy. Its a catch 22 for me, would love to see DK's bought inline with other tanks but then it also makes my job as a healer harder :P.
    Eh ?

    We aren't talking about the damage they take, but the damage they do here. And I honestly think they're pretty fine, just wait 'til you have to heal one in heroic raids, it'll be waaaaaayyyyy less easy.

    Ugh... so ummm... "Blood DK damage is too high but we nerfed prot warrior damage so everything will be fine now"? -.-
    They didn't say higher than every tank. They said higher than most tanks, probably not including warriors that were doing crazy batshit damage with revenge and deep wound.

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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    You don't get balanced around 5-man heroics and challenge modes, you get balanced around heroic raids, and in heroic raids, blood DK damage is, at best, equal, and at worst, mediocre, when you compare them to the other tanks. The same logic goes with their survivability - in raids DKs get gibbed very easily, in 5mans they're virtually immortal. This is the design of the class, having the entire mitigation system being reactive instead of just a part of it.
    Without Vengeance (or very low amounts like you get in 5mans) DKs absolutely rock every other tanking class though, this is true.
    All right - that does make sense and I can grumpily accept that (not that it makes me happy that my challenge mode runs are going to get that small bit harder)

    @Tpyo - the hotfixes are in - revenge is doing 50% to second and 25% to third target. And why do tanks get pissed about revenge? Well did you see how many multi-target fights there are in this tier? ;] But most tanks are pissed MOST at the fact that we also got our single-target damage nerfed, while Blizzard only said that Death Knights are doing more damage then other classes but the changes introduced should bring all the tanking classes back in line (which would be kinda difficult considering that all protection warriors got, were nerfs ;-D)... however Mione DOES have a point - I did not look at the changes from perspective of 10/25-man content... I guess we'll see how it balances in the long run...
    This does not make me feel any better though

  9. #9
    Well the reasoning seems retarded but tank damage is too high for my taste anyways.
    Last edited by cFortyfive; 2012-10-03 at 03:22 AM.

  10. #10
    I kind of figured this was coming...

    I enjoyed pulling 200K DPS on trash packs though. :c

    Was fun while it lasted... ;-;

  11. #11
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    I am furious they have nerfed this but not DK's personally
    I wouldn't mind if they did them together but the fact that they have left DK as it is is a fucking joke

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans Zellviren's Avatar
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    To me personally, this is just "don't nerf me bro" talk.

    Revenge was doing far too much damage due to how much it procs on trash, particularly with a glyph that buffed it further. They went by nerfing the AoE component which, for me, was the best option; nerfing the glyph or the mechanic would have an impact on single-target tanking, which is where it matters.

    It would also make Revenge less fun.

    As for Deep Wounds... I suspect this will only be a minor nerf where it counts and, honestly, we probably needed it. We're taking next to no sustained damage in heroics, and some of the ticks are ludicrously high already; imagine what they'll be doing in raids.

    What I will admit is that Blizzard have started to treat Blood DK's with kid gloves, and it's frustrating - they seem scared to do anything to them because they appear to be balanced on a knife edge.

    That said, does it really matter in heroics? Probably not. And if we see DK tanks starting to dominate gold times in Challenge Modes, something will be done about it because it's competitive play.
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    We don't know all the reasons, and if you honestly think that SoO will last for 15 months and that WoD won't release until the 20th of december, you are beyond silly.
    Well, we'll just have to wait and see who's "beyond silly"... Won't we?

  13. #13
    Mechagnome Gritalian's Avatar
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    In dungeons we were doing too much damage, but that's how it is in the beginning of every expansion. All my upgrades from here on out will be increasing my health and avoidance/mitigation while the DPS will be increasing their damage. It might seem odd that tanks are doing 2nd, if not top, dps on AoE pulls, but the numbers you see us doing now are mostly going to be what you'll see us doing 12 month from now.

    Where as the Sims just for this tier have locks and mages doing 110k in t14-normal gear... so give it a few weeks.

    The biggest problem I have is after Stone Guard, Feng, and Gara'jal, I find myself again trailing our Prot Pally in tank damage... just feels like we're already getting pushed to being the middle-of-the-class tank again...

  14. #14
    Brewmaster ridish's Avatar
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    i Played with a prot warrior yesturday pulling around 160k dps on aoe packs. At the end of the dungeon he had done about 30% of the total dmg... Tanks shouldn't be pulling this kind of dps. I think a good way to fix it is to give tanks some sort of upgraded threat system were they actually have to do their shit correctly in order to get the aggro from the mobs. Tanks these days just use thunderclap and go afk.

  15. #15
    My protection warrior still tops the meters when it comes to AoE, is this nerf coming like today or what? Cause yesterday I was kicking ass as usual.

  16. #16
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    It was overpowered and needed to be nerfed, the thing that pisses me off no end is that other broken rubbish ingame like Blood DK's is just ignored

  17. #17
    This way amateurs in blizzard ruins alot of fun, just becasue we get new skills like avatar/baner which does boosts damage and we should be happy to have it, its ok but nerfing primary ability because its boosted by new ability isnt fun, this is fail. Everyone is saving avatar for big trash aoe and thats how its work and now we end up with new ability and nerfed old to compensate gain.
    Nerf is high because blizzard propably dont want more nerfs and wants more buffs when freshnes of mop will end. Thats how it works.

  18. #18
    Herald of the Titans Zellviren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddytheone View Post
    It was overpowered and needed to be nerfed, the thing that pisses me off no end is that other broken rubbish ingame like Blood DK's is just ignored
    I agree with you, all I'm trying to say is that Blizzard need to know how DK's perform in raids before they can make adjustments. The snag is that Death Strike has to be powerful enough so that bad tanks can still at least be passable in raids, but not so powerful that it makes decent players godly.

    Really, I'm glad I'm not the one trying to balance it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    We don't know all the reasons, and if you honestly think that SoO will last for 15 months and that WoD won't release until the 20th of december, you are beyond silly.
    Well, we'll just have to wait and see who's "beyond silly"... Won't we?

  19. #19
    It was about time, i was pulling 125k dps on some trash packs, for sure nobody can call this normal.

  20. #20
    so, i saw this shadowpriest have around 150k dps aoe on 1 boss (cant remember witch) and you guys we tanks shuld be nerfed? but yeah i agree kinda, we do alot of dps, but some people shuld just learn tp how to dps on the DPS classes.. they can easely beat us..
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