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  1. #61
    Pit Lord Asmodias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    GW2 and the developers design philosophy is disappointing. Thats the reason why I'm not buying other MMOs anymore, unless its a WoW expac or probably Titan.
    I would imagine that you have very particular reasons for thinking this, I would love to know them. I wouldn't want to know that you feel this way because other people feel this way.


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  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderball View Post
    I'm with you, OP, this is stupid. I have 2 chars atm, a warrior and a guardian, both level 80. Sure, guardians dominate TPvP, but retalation and greatsword damage has NOTHING to do with it. Greatsword is only effective in extreme glass cannon builds and if you are playing versus noobs, both of which is not happening in TPvP. Guardians excel in TPvP due to their support capabilities, and they are not changed. Not to mention that guardians are absolutely terrible in WvW. What surprises me the most is that warriors are still not getting any nerfs. I mean I leveled my warrior just to play WvW (which is impossible with guardian) and I've been doing more damage than my full exotic guardian at about level 65. It's not considering the fact that I dont have to run with someone to slow enemies for me (or waste my JI cd to get a whirl off).

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 05:50 AM ----------



    Because there is no other option. The only option just became worse. Hammer is only good for extreme niche spvp point defender builds (actually is pretty good at it), sword is quite good single target damage but doesnt have aoe damage at all, mace is overall terrible and staff I wont even mention, you can forget about damage with it, same goes about scepter but slightly better.
    This right here. This is what most people are failing to realize. A lot of the stuff guardian is good at got left alone, especially the PvP aspect of guardian. But the greatsword nerf has nothing to do with any of that. The PvE aspect of guardian, specifically PvE dps, took a hit because of some short sighted skill change on Anet's part. So now guardians are becoming even more pigeon holed into support and utility builds (in PvE) and nothing else. This is a very bad design philosophy Anet is heading towards with the guardian. You have to be pretty blind not to see it.

  3. #63
    Pit Lord barackopala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderball View Post
    I'm with you, OP, this is stupid. I have 2 chars atm, a warrior and a guardian, both level 80. Sure, guardians dominate TPvP, but retalation and greatsword damage has NOTHING to do with it. Greatsword is only effective in extreme glass cannon builds and if you are playing versus noobs, both of which is not happening in TPvP. Guardians excel in TPvP due to their support capabilities, and they are not changed. Not to mention that guardians are absolutely terrible in WvW. What surprises me the most is that warriors are still not getting any nerfs. I mean I leveled my warrior just to play WvW (which is impossible with guardian) and I've been doing more damage than my full exotic guardian at about level 65. It's not considering the fact that I dont have to run with someone to slow enemies for me (or waste my JI cd to get a whirl off).

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 05:50 AM ----------



    Because there is no other option. The only option just became worse. Hammer is only good for extreme niche spvp point defender builds (actually is pretty good at it), sword is quite good single target damage but doesnt have aoe damage at all, mace is overall terrible and staff I wont even mention, you can forget about damage with it, same goes about scepter but slightly better.
    You misread what Shortcut said, "Past few days" refers to days prior to 7/10 (or 10/7 depending on how you see it), 2h sword was stupidly strong, leading it to be the "weapon of choice". I hope people now start testing new stuff, same has happened to various games where a nerf happens, everyone QQ and they discover a new little thing they hadn't ever thought about. *cough*support fiddlesticks*cough*

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by barackopala View Post
    You misread what Shortcut said, "Past few days" refers to days prior to 7/10 (or 10/7 depending on how you see it), 2h sword was stupidly strong, leading it to be the "weapon of choice". I hope people now start testing new stuff, same has happened to various games where a nerf happens, everyone QQ and they discover a new little thing they hadn't ever thought about. *cough*support fiddlesticks*cough*
    Great sword was not stupidly strong for guardians. It merely brought us into line with other profs in terms of dps. And now that has been nerfed, not because of the retal being up less, but because one of our primary sources of damage (as well as a skill that affects A ALOT of the traits we have) has been nerfed to keep us from keeping up retal. It was a VERY short sighted and fail attempt on Anet's part to try and gimp retal on guardians.....all they did was nerf overall dps on the GS, which is NOT ok. Why can't you see that? Oh yeah...I'm sure you never even touched any of the builds that this nerf greatly affects, or have probably never even ran guardian.

  5. #65
    Pit Lord barackopala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyr Storm View Post
    Great sword was not stupidly strong for guardians. It merely brought us into line with other profs in terms of dps. And now that has been nerfed, not because of the retal being up less, but because one of our primary sources of damage (as well as a skill that affects A ALOT of the traits we have) has been nerfed to keep us from keeping up retal. It was a VERY short sighted and fail attempt on Anet's part to try and gimp retal on guardians.....all they did was nerf overall dps on the GS, which is NOT ok. Why can't you see that? Oh yeah...I'm sure you never even touched any of the builds that this nerf greatly affects, or have probably never even ran guardian.
    Now you have a reason to try new weapons, guardian is stupidly strong just by itself, they dont rely on just one weapon to do your "ubber leet dps" their survivability is quite strong, amazingly strong, yesterday i tried the so called "immortal build", worked wonders, didn't give a fuck about what dps i made, i could outsustain most challenges.

    It's a very short sighted and fail attempt on your part to try and abuse just one spell on guardian (see what i did there?) to get it to a "maximum point of performance" just measuring raw "dps" (LOLOLOLOL) getting you to be essentially a glasscannon, which in it's concept itself goes against the "guardian" essence of the profession itself... as you stated, all they did was nerf the dps, you're not a damage machine.

    Ohh yeah... I'm sure you never touched any of the builds that the nerf made you choose otherwise. I did used to play 2handsword guardian (and still do) and I think it was stupidly strong.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by barackopala View Post
    Now you have a reason to try new weapons, guardian is stupidly strong just by itself, they dont rely on just one weapon to do your "ubber leet dps" their survivability is quite strong, amazingly strong, yesterday i tried the so called "immortal build", worked wonders, didn't give a fuck about what dps i made, i could outsustain most challenges.

    It's a very short sighted and fail attempt on your part to try and abuse just one spell on guardian (see what i did there?) to get it to a "maximum point of performance" just measuring raw "dps" (LOLOLOLOL) getting you to be essentially a glasscannon, which in it's concept itself goes against the "guardian" essence of the profession itself... as you stated, all they did was nerf the dps, you're not a damage machine.

    Ohh yeah... I'm sure you never touched any of the builds that the nerf made you choose otherwise. I did used to play 2handsword guardian (and still do) and I think it was stupidly strong.
    It wasn't abusing anything. It was the one ability that gave GS actual diversity with the ability to have a symbol up fairly often and then speccing into the traits that affect symbols. Now with that ability hampered quite a bit, GS just became even LESS diverse than before. So Anet is forcing people to either go full dps with GS now especially without the diveristy (which is dumb because it received a damage nerf in this regard) or abandon it entirely for something more favorable. That's not progression. That's called limiting. And every profession should be able to go glass cannon if they so choose, that's the point of this game and their philosophy along with it. And if you were using GS without trying the support side of it with symbols, then that's your own fault. That play style has now been greatly hampered because of Anet's short sighted attempt at "fixing" retal which they didn't do. It's still possible to keep up perma retal with other abilities. Now GS is just suffering from a half ass (and fail) attempt on Anet's part.

    I'm going to stop listening to you now. You are pretty clueless as to the ramifications of this nerf. You obviously haven't touched GS guardian in quite some time, so any argument you have is pretty moot.
    Last edited by Zephyr Storm; 2012-10-09 at 01:17 AM.

  7. #67
    Pit Lord barackopala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyr Storm View Post
    I'm going to stop listening to you now. You are pretty clueless as to the ramifications of this nerf. You obviously haven't touched GS guardian in quite some time, so any argument you have is pretty moot.
    Woops I do have one sir, I played it on deep a GS spec, it was blatantly obvious that the damage was absurdly strong.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by barackopala View Post
    Woops I do have one sir, I played it on deep a GS spec, it was blatantly obvious that the damage was absurdly strong.
    Read what I edited above. And no it wasn't absurdly strong. If you want absurdly strong, then go play thief or warrior. If anyone needs a dps nerf, it's them...not guardians. We have little dps options as it is, and now they are nerfing our one good source of it. It's obvious you're one of those people who probably got steamrolled by a half decent guardian in PvP and cried nerf on them (which I remind you, the nerf doesn't affect PvP as much anyway...it's a much bigger nerf to PvE in regards to the GS).

  9. #69
    Pit Lord barackopala's Avatar
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    Actually my main playstyle is on the PvE side, I do PvP but to a minor extent (done it with my guardian) and it indeed felt way too powerful to go with the 2hsword, and if you managed to have scepter on the OH you could just trap the enemy on the ground, burst him with a truckload of damage in a second and then durrhurrdurr around the ground.

    Sorry but I'm no whiner when it comes to PvP, if someone beats me it's mainly due to:
    A) I did something wrong
    B) He did something right
    After you investigate those two points deeply like how did it happen, why did he use that spell or what could i use against it (it's a thought process that came to me by playing starcraft, the first thing you learn about that game is that nothing is imbalanced until you try to understand why is it there and how to play against it, like the queen buff on 1.5, everyone cried about it being OP, I'm not seeing that much zergs on the GSL tbh.), you could come to a conclussion that there needs to be some modifications, most of the time it's the vocal mayority that's stupid enough to don't check the two situations that i stated before and just complain meanwhile the ones that are just silent are still testing what the change will "bring up"... Give it some time before start rampaging, you literally posted the first moment they announced it, just give it some time, test,test,test, check if you're doing something wrong, if your build is sub-par on what you want to do and who are you playing against.
    Last edited by barackopala; 2012-10-09 at 01:30 AM.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by barackopala View Post
    Actually my main playstyle is on the PvE side, I do PvP but to a minor extent (done it with my guardian) and it indeed felt way too powerful to go with the 2hsword, and if you managed to have scepter on the OH you could just trap the enemy on the ground, burst him with a truckload of damage in a second and then durrhurrdurr around the ground.

    Sorry but I'm no whiner when it comes to PvP, if someone beats me it's mainly due to:
    A) I did something wrong
    B) He did something right
    After you investigate those two points deeply like how did it happen, why did he use that spell or what could i use against it (it's a thought process that came to me by playing starcraft, the first thing you learn about that game is that nothing is imbalanced until you try to understand why is it there and how to play against it, like the queen buff on 1.5, everyone cried about it being OP, I'm not seeing that much zergs on the GSL tbh.), you could come to a conclussion that there needs to be some modifications, most of the time it's the vocal mayority that's stupid enough to don't check the two situations that i stated before and just complain meanwhile the ones that are just silent are still testing what the change will "bring up"... Give it some time before start rampaging, you literally posted the first moment they announced it, just give it some time, test,test,test, check if you're doing something wrong, if your build is sub-par on what you want to do and who are you playing against.
    You're still completely ignoring the fact that this nerf affected WAY more than just the retal aspect of symbol of wrath. It greatly reduced the effectiveness of any and all builds that uses symbols and GS in conjunction. Not to mention that the Zeal trait line, which is specifically designed for symbols and GS became even LESS effective than before. How you continue to think this nerf was justified is simply beyond me. You seem to like to ignore glaringly obvious facts in favor of your view on a certain subject. I highly suggest you go read the guardian forums on the official site. There have been a lot of very well thought out and constructive posts that support everything I've been saying. Anet dropped the ball with this nerf. And everyone is calling them out on it.
    Last edited by Zephyr Storm; 2012-10-09 at 01:50 AM.

  11. #71
    Pit Lord barackopala's Avatar
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    And you go again, telling me that the vocal mayority is right when most of the time... it's the minority that get to test and try new stuff, you're like TL's avilo, cries over a nerf and doesn't realize there are A TON of viable specs to play... it'd be the same as me suggesting you to read a reddit post "CUZ IT'S INFORMATIVE AND LOT O PEOPLE DISCUSS ABOUT IT, they must be right no?" No.

    If only you played SC2 and posted on TL after every patch change, you would be drowning in tears.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by barackopala View Post
    And you go again, telling me that the vocal mayority is right when most of the time... it's the minority that get to test and try new stuff, you're like TL's avilo, cries over a nerf and doesn't realize there are A TON of viable specs to play... it'd be the same as me suggesting you to read a reddit post "CUZ IT'S INFORMATIVE AND LOT O PEOPLE DISCUSS ABOUT IT, they must be right no?" No.

    If only you played SC2 and posted on TL after every patch change, you would be drowning in tears.
    What are you even going on about? Last time I checked, we were talking about GW2, not SC2 or TL. The fact you keep ignoring glaringly obvious facts that I keep pointing out to you and you keep responding with, what in essence is "learn to play" is proof enough to me that you really are clueless about anything and everything that this patch did to guardians. It greatly reduced the effectiveness of all zeal trait line builds with the GS in an attempt to "fix" retal. It just didn't lower the dps of the GS (which it did do), it effectively reduced the overall utility and effectiveness of the GS in general. How you can't get that through your thick skull is beyond me. I keep handing the facts to you on a silver platter, and you keep swatting it away. I don't know how else to get this realization to dawn on you. I guess you really can't enlighten people who continually and purposefully remain blind and ignorant to things right in front of their face. Good luck to you sir.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-08 at 09:20 PM ----------

    And I keep pointing you towards the guardian official forums in the attempt to open your eyes to the discussion and actual ramifications of this nerf. There is a lot of good info on there that people keep pointing out (and that you sorely need to read to enlighten yourself). But oh well, I don't care...remain ignorant and blissful I guess. Whatever floats your boat. Good luck to you sir.
    Last edited by Zephyr Storm; 2012-10-09 at 02:22 AM.

  13. #73
    Pit Lord barackopala's Avatar
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    SC2 is a great example of how nerfs works and how the vocal majority is just circlejerking about nerfs in the general forum, same happens to GW2 and WoW... tell me, when a tweak came up on WoW did you really look at the class forum for some guidance on any tip for getting better? if so, you might be part of the bandwagon of bad players that just cry over something that needed to be issued... just cause something got nerfed doesnt mean the class is either not usefull at all or a bad class, you can still do a lot of stuff with the guardian and be totally viable, what's stupid is that you're trying to make guardian the all around hardcore class for everyhing, their surviability is stupidly strong and their damage was to the roof.


    Oh lord please PLEASE go to the sc2 forums, full of random guys screaming "Hey this is bullshit this patch sucks oh blizz you stupid silly guys... PS: Im masters league" like that would mean something, after that the real good players come up and say "hey, take it easy, we're still checking how this whole nerf affect other strategies and hell... it might even bring new stuff to the game".


    You seem to be overly defensive over changes that needed to be done, you can discuss if they were right or wrong, but first you have to test everything as a possibility, there will never be a "this is a counter to everything" build.
    Last edited by barackopala; 2012-10-09 at 02:23 AM.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by barackopala View Post
    SC2 is a great example of how nerfs works and how the vocal majority is just circlejerking about nerfs in the general forum, same happens to GW2 and WoW... tell me, when a tweak came up on WoW did you really look at the class forum for some guidance on any tip for getting better? if so, you might be part of the bandwagon of bad players that just cry over something that needed to be issued...
    Ignoring facts is bad...now please go away.

  15. #75
    Dreadlord Winterstrife's Avatar
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    The 2 most overplayed & OP professions complaining about nerfs?
    It's not as if you're NERFED TO THE GROUND, you're still tearing shit up in PvP, suck it up.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...trife/advanced
    WoW: Winterstrife, Level 90 Human Paladin | ESO: S'trife, Veteran Rank 12 Khajiit Nightblade | GW2: Winter Strife, Level 80 Charr Warrior.

  16. #76
    Pit Lord barackopala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyr Storm View Post
    Ignoring facts is bad...now please go away.
    This thread is not going to get further away than your massive QQ about a spec that was extremely strong and you just felt entitled to a spec... if you're not open for testing then please, don't start stirring shit up

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by barackopala View Post
    SC2 is a great example of how nerfs works and how the vocal majority is just circlejerking about nerfs in the general forum, same happens to GW2 and WoW... tell me, when a tweak came up on WoW did you really look at the class forum for some guidance on any tip for getting better? if so, you might be part of the bandwagon of bad players that just cry over something that needed to be issued... just cause something got nerfed doesnt mean the class is either not usefull at all or a bad class, you can still do a lot of stuff with the guardian and be totally viable, what's stupid is that you're trying to make guardian the all around hardcore class for everyhing, their surviability is stupidly strong and their damage was to the roof.


    Oh lord please PLEASE go to the sc2 forums, full of random guys screaming "Hey this is bullshit this patch sucks oh blizz you stupid silly guys... PS: Im masters league" like that would mean something, after that the real good players come up and say "hey, take it easy, we're still checking how this whole nerf affect other strategies and hell... it might even bring new stuff to the game".


    You seem to be overly defensive over changes that needed to be done, you can discuss if they were right or wrong, but first you have to test everything as a possibility, there will never be a "this is a counter to everything" build.
    My god. Stop referring to SC2. That is a completely different and unrelated game. The SC2 forums have nothing to do with the GW2 forums. They are not even the same genre of game. Quit bringing your pointless drivel into this thread in an attempt to say "learn to play". Go troll somewhere else. Get lost.

  18. #78
    Pit Lord barackopala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyr Storm View Post
    My god. Stop referring to SC2. That is a completely different and unrelated game. The SC2 forums have nothing to do with the GW2 forums. They are not even the same genre of game. Quit bringing your pointless drivel into this thread in an attempt to say "learn to play". Go troll somewhere else. Get lost.
    SC2 and GW2 are pointing towards a competitive scene, even some A-net devs have stated A LOT of times that they look after games like SC2, it's the same thing that happens on both communities, i'm stating examples of the bandwagonist mayorities that cry outright after a nerf without even looking to the side... Remember that the underlined word is reason enough for giving you a warning, stop being overly defensive over something, at least be receptive.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Winterstrife View Post
    The 2 most overplayed & OP professions complaining about nerfs?
    It's not as if you're NERFED TO THE GROUND, you're still tearing shit up in PvP, suck it up.
    I'm not complaining about the PvP aspects of guardian. That is still fine is terms of support and utility. Hell, support and utility in PvE is fine too. What I AM complaining about is the unseen nerf to GS in general as well as the nerf to the zeal trait line in general. All in the name of a secondary effect on ONE ability (retal). That is very BAD design. Stop telling me off on something you seem to know nothing about.

  20. #80
    Pit Lord barackopala's Avatar
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    As stated before, this thread is going to go nowhere, why? due to you being so narrow minded to say all the time "this is an utter nerf, everyone who thinks that i should test something new is bad and nothing more than that"... it's no use to keep posting here, it's a circlejerk.

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