so im 80...

[Fencers]

I beleive that what a-net tried to do is to kind of take all that kind of comments away and get into a model we're "comfortable" up to a certain point that nobody can say stuff like "hey i'm at the same looks than this guy sitting next to me who just started playing and i'm level 80 full tier of content, why do i have to be with this (insert insult) noob next to me killing this epic boss who took me years to gear up!" (the entitled gamer issue is quite common in the RPG genre).

Well, you are right about the comfort thing. That's the only point of having the level cap super extended to 80 vis-a-vis GW1's level 20 cap mid way through the game. It's an effort to give the franchise bandwagoners and Mr. Sour MMO Grapes Esq. an easily digestible structure.

Even The Secret World was not brave enough to abandon levels totally. Funcom just masked leveling as skill point gains & gear upgrades. Perhaps it's too harsh to fault Anet for not going a step further.

Perhaps not though.

[barackopala]

How is running one raid instance over and over any different?
And
Have you got your Dungeon Master title yet or did you give up?

That's the most frustrating part, last week a friend of mine showed me MoP and how amazing it was and the dungeons and stuff... I was impressed by the looks of it, but the encounters and the overall feeling after playing GW2 and the whole explansions of WoW made me feel that way, i was looking at the screen and randomly dpsing while the tank was standing in front, I just looked down and thought "have i really been doing the same kind of stuff since vanilla? damn..."

Well, you are right about the comfort thing. That's the only point of having the level cap super extended to 80 vis-a-vis GW1's level 20 cap mid way through the game. It's an effort to give the franchise bandwagoners and Mr. Sour MMO Grapes Esq. an easily digestible structure.

Even The Secret World was not brave enough to abandon levels totally. Funcom just masked leveling as skill point gains & gear upgrades. Perhaps it's too harsh to fault Anet for not going a step further.

Perhaps not though.

Actually one of the points that attracted me the most about TSW was no leveling, it was impressive that an RPG went that way, the questing was interesting and immersive (more than the story from GW2 and any other mmo i've played so far), but I felt a bit worried about how gear would start working, like how balancing would work for it and stuff, maybe it's a bit easier due to less stats to start modyfing... sadly I didn't get to try it due to me not having that much money (yeah, my money was saved up for some PC releases this year... which lead me to a huge disappointment on my pc, I definately need to upgrade my VGA).

You can look at borderlands 2 as an example of companies not doing some 180° spins, the game still has the "1 skill usage" method, vehicles are somewhat similar to what Blands1 was and melee is not too viable either.

[antonatsis]

Spoken like someone that only farmed raids for gear and not for the challenge of progression. Despite the *endless* strawman stuff that you pull thread after thread about gear, most of us that raided or did other similar content did it for the challenge, not the gear. In fact, most of us would rather see the gear out of the equation altogether, just let us do the content. After that, the "over and over" was often just for gearing alts for fun or something. /shrug



Sorry, the "dungeons" in this game are the worst designed mess I've seen yet in an MMO. It's all either buggy, balanced horribly, just a kite/dodge fest, or usually all of the above. I had a little fun for a while seeing how much of the instances I could solo or duo with my wife, but beyond that...meh.

For all the things that we dislike about WoW right now, my wife and I were just reminiscing the other day about all the interesting and challenging fights that we did over the years. Then we compared those to the content in GW2 and just sighed, because there's simply nothing comparable here.

the problem with raiding is that (and me being a raider mostly in TBC)after you kill the boss 2-3 times its stops being anything besides mindless grind and i was doing them for the content and the gear was an added bonus,but the moment you get a gear decent enough for the dungeon(not bis but decent)there is no point in doing then anymore in my book at least(even i was doing them week in week out for gear :P )

As for GW2 dungeons i like them...as long as my party knows what its doing :P

[barackopala]

Then just don't. We were US top 50 (Yay top 30 H-Al'akir 25 kill) and farm nights were largely optional.

This is another example of a weird double standard where people give GW2 a pass for the things they damn other MMO's for. You can "just not do stuff" in GW2, but somehow you're "forced to farm all day long" in other MMO's, when in those games you could just as easily "not do stuff" if you wanted.

You seem to forget you have to get "bis" and the optimal gear on the last tier of raiding to be competitive on the PvE enviroment, that means farming farming farming content to get the top notch set for the last raid and the last content on the last patch that shows you the powerful dragon of powerfulness, and that never ends.

[antonatsis]

Then just don't. We were US top 50 (Yay top 30 H-Al'akir 25 kill) and farm nights were largely optional.

This is another example of a weird double standard where people give GW2 a pass for the things they damn other MMO's for. You can "just not do stuff" in GW2, but somehow you're "forced to farm all day long" in other MMO's, when in those games you could just as easily "not do stuff" if you wanted.

sorry mate but in WoW if you dont raid then the game is not for you,everything revolves around raiding in WoW,the day WoW will stop consider extra content raids and put other things for the plaers as extra content worth of a major patch WoW will stop being a raiding game.

As for GW2 the difference is that you don't have to do things you need in WoW like games. Of course i can hit myself with the brick called grinding BUT i dont have to.I can get a decent item with minimum effort and go do the dungeons.There is the option of farm for best things but the game actually gives you easily what you need in order to enjoy the game,after that is personal favour on what you want and if you are willing to grind for it.

as for the top 50...well it doesn't say anything to me

[Fencers]

sorry mate but in WoW if you dont raid then the game is not for you,everything revolves around raiding in WoW,the day WoW will stop consider extra content raids and put other things for the plaers as extra content worth of a major patch WoW will stop being a raiding game.

I thought WOW had PVP progression path as well?

Even if they don't- I agree somewhat with Bovintiy on this. I too raid competitively & enjoy it a great deal. We do have optional nights where like, 10 of us show up. Maybe.

Raiding guilds don't really raid all the time. We only raid hardcore for like a few weeks. Then it's over/optional. Almost all gear is a given nowadays. Sorta don't even think about gear because everyone gets the exact number of tokens needed, always.

[Valeron]

I thought WOW had PVP progression path as well?

.

It does, it's gear based just like the pve is.

[Brandoh]

yea so i pretty much had the same thoughts OP had... so i went back to MoP

[barackopala]

I didn't forget it because it's not true. It's only true if you want to be World First or something, but anyone else...you don't need to "farm farm farm"...it's just another invented bit of nonsense, sufficient gear actually came REALLY easily in WoW.



Considering that I can do everything in WoW (or any MMO, I don't want a WoW vs. GW2 thread) that I can do in GW2 - albeit with some different presentation methods - I don't see how WoW only revolves around raiding.



You don't have to in WoW or most other MMO's either. EVERY SINGLE THING you can do in GW2 "without grinding" you can do in any other MMO without grinding, too. I can log into WoW, EQ, AoC, or any other MMO I've played and if I want to do the exact same things that I do in GW2 I can do them without grinding. Big difference is that I can also do more above and beyond that.

Please show me how you did T13 content on your T11 content without any farm/grinding whatsoever.
What i do have to admit is that I miss the raid content from WoW, it would've been nice to see that on GW2... sadly i dont know how far would it have gone.

[Valeron]

yea so i pretty much had the same thoughts OP had... so i went back to MoP

Wouldn't you go forward to MoP?

I couldn't last two days of MoP, missed GW2s gameplay so got a refund from blizzard of MoP.

different strokes for different folks

[barackopala]

So it's "farming/grinding" if I did Tier 12? (For the record, my gear was utter crap at the end of Tier 12, but I won't get into the details of how much gear was actually required.)

Here we go with the double standards and such again. Somehow doing the content AT ALL in WoW is "farming and grinding" but getting a legendary in GW2 is...just "playing the game".

The legendary is totally optional, the stats aren't even comparable to T11 vs T12, where to the point in wow you got to measure who was better mostly by looking at their gear (mostly, there are obviously exceptions to the rule).

[Fencers]

They do, yeah. WoW has a lot of things to do, but that's mostly just because it's such an old game, so any comparison would be pretty unfair.

It does, it's gear based just like the pve is.

Yea, I was pretty certain Warcraft had a PVP progression path. But I was somewhat confused as to what that guy was saying by, "everything revolves around raiding in WoW".

Which could be read in a few different ways from my POV. Still not sure what he's trying to say...

[barackopala]

Yea, I was pretty certain Warcraft had a PVP progression path. But I was somewhat confused as to what that guy was saying by, "everything revolves around raiding in WoW".

Which could be read in a few different ways from my POV. Still not sure what he's trying to say...

It's the point that most players point at raiding as the pinnacle of endgame on WoW, if you disregard the PvP point of the game, it ends up in raiding on the very last end of content, if you take into account PvP... well it's a totally different story.

[Winterstrife]

Show me an MMO that doesn't require you to grind. If you hate grinding/farming stuff then you shouldn't be playing MMOs, other genre games are that way =>

---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 10:44 AM ----------

It's the point that most players point at raiding as the pinnacle of endgame on WoW, if you disregard the PvP point of the game, it ends up in raiding on the very last end of content, if you take into account PvP... well it's a totally different story.

Yeah but the WoW community tend to look at PvE content as endgame, PvP being endgame for most people tend to give the same reaction as when people found out the Earth was round not flat.

[Karizee]

In one thread, people say that hardly anyone in WoW actually raids.

In another thread - when it suits the topic - people say that the entire game revolves around raiding and suggest that's all anyone does, day in day out.

If you read it within the context it makes sense.

For those who say GW2's endgame is grindy we simply point out how grindy running one instance over and over for months on end is.

For those saying GW2 will fail because it has no raids, we point out how very few people raid.

GW2 offers the superior MMO experience with amazing graphics, character customization, plethora of things to do, jump puzzles, dynamic events and friendly community where the GMs don't allow the terribleness of foul language, sexually explicit names, where the game systems promote cooperation and coordination with shared nodes, easy group play, no possiblity of griefing or ganking, etc.

Really, we don't want your raiders

[Fencers]

Wouldn't you go forward to MoP?

I couldn't last two days of MoP, missed GW2s gameplay so got a refund from blizzard of MoP.

different strokes for different folks

Heh. I linked a video the other day to a call-in podcast [weird I know] where the question was asked about GW2's lack of traditional endgame. Josh Allen form Legendary and Tankspot put forth the idea that maybe without the reward structure a lot less people actually like the gameplay of hotkey, stat based MMOs.

I instantly thought of a poster here that once said he would have never really played MMOs if it wasn't for the social aspects. That he just wasn't excited by the gameplay of MMOs. I think that was you, actually.

Kind of a funny/weird association. But I would agree and have said before the vulgarity of World of Warcraft brought a lot of people into MMOs [& specifically raiding] who probably don't really like that style of gameplay.

This thread is going somewhat off-topic. It has got me thinking at the leveling/endgame structure though.

[KCguy]

WoW isn't anywhere near as grindy (although a lot more since BC) and people are whining. GW2 is all grinding and nothing more, people are whining. MMO's can't win nowadays.

[Fencers]

GW2 offers the superior MMO experience with amazing graphics, character customization, plethora of things to do, jump puzzles, dynamic events and friendly community where the GMs don't allow the terribleness of foul language, sexually explicit names, where the game systems promote cooperation and coordination with shared nodes, easy group play, no possiblity of griefing or ganking, etc.

Really, we don't want your raiders

This is quite a lot of subjective opinion. Your attitude is really close to being insulting too.

I understand you have a lot of animosity over World of Warcraft. I'm sorry you picked the wrong type of game for a few years/months/whatever.

Drop the backhanded BS though. Getting a bit close to game v game here.

[Itisamuh]

WoW isn't anywhere near as grindy (although a lot more since BC) and people are whining. GW2 is all grinding and nothing more, people are whining. MMO's can't win nowadays.

Not sure what game you're playing. Everything in WoW is a grind. Raiding, PvP, leveling, all of it. In GW, leveling doesn't really matter and can be done at any pace without affecting the rest of the game, there's no gear treadmill in PvP, and there's no real raiding to speak of. Not to mention it's free, so there's no feeling of having to play a certain amount or getting a certain amount of new content out regularly to get your money's worth. I can't imagine how you can possibly consider that more grindy than WoW. Just because a few people with no self control can't help but grind everything that's grindable doesn't mean it's forced. I just think people are looking at GW the wrong way. I'd rather it wasn't even called an MMO, then people wouldn't have these assumptions of how the game should be, and could just play it for what it is.

[Deleted]

WoW isn't anywhere near as grindy (although a lot more since BC) and people are whining. GW2 is all grinding and nothing more, people are whining. MMO's can't win nowadays.

Ehhh these types of posts really irk me. The grind in gw2 is optional. You chose whether you want to grind dungeons/legendaries in other mmos yu have to grind to stay competitive there is no other way. New content patch is out? you have strat grinding gear to stay competitive, thats the difference between gw2 grin and other mmo type of grind.