Try and give me a reasonable answer to this:

[Stalemate]

Who knows, maybe Org is destroyed and the exodus to draenor commences.

[Pion]

uhm Garrosh is the same in the Outlands since BC.
He is the same in Northend since WotLk and i think everything will be the same in the Cata Quests and even maybe in OG.

Maybe you will have in the next expansion a new warchief as long you are there but if you return to OG you will see his big face again.

[Kittyvicious]

I'm sorry, but that is a terrible idea. There currently is very, very few ways to time travel in lore, so saying "oh your going back in time to Outland and then Northrend and then back to the present, by the way you can come back anytime to afk and use dungeon finder, oh also even though some heroes did all that years ago we're still sending you, don't expect to see anyone though since they're doing what really matters in Pandaria."

Instead let's completely ignore the fact that you are already time traveling as you level, with no explanation other than to just 'deal with the time gaps between expansions'? I'm sorry, but "just deal with it" is not a good enough design for me.

Maybe you are satisfied with it, but you single handedly explained why the whole game is pointless until 90 yet also said that the fact it is pointless is why we don't need an explanation. Hmm. There is no logic in that argument. It's very easy to write one quest, or even a minor quest chain as to why you are going back.

They have already completely bastardized the notion of time, let's not be apologists now.

[ikabod00]

Can you provide a link for these statements. I tried to Google it and couldn't turn anything up. I swear at blizz con they said he DID become Sha corrupt. Also I haven't seen them state that we will kill Garrosh. I wouldnt doubt that we beat the Sha out of him and he returns to power as the Warchief as they did say Thrall will not be returning as Chief.

I feel the story will play out as follows: 5.1 Garrosh comes to Pandaria, Becomes corrupted by the sha. Eventually returns to Org(5.3) where he is out of control bringing the Sha to Azeroth. Then we siege Org to take him down. Beat the Sha out of him he comes to his senses and character flops OMG What have I done eyes now opened much more enlightened warchief just like his father when he took on Mannaroth.

If they unseat him as leader of the Horde fine, but The orcs need an orc leader. Perhaps it pans out and we get Thrall back but I think the mantle will be passed along. Also the war is far from over, you cant have Warcraft with out War. Red vs Blue is the core of the story. I totally dig the times we put aside differences to kick some other worldly ass but at the end of the day, Lok'tar ogar!

If you stop red vs blue its time to hang up warcraft as the story is finished imo.

I don't remember them specifically stating he was not sha correupted. But it was said, either in a tweet by Ghostcrawler or some other source that they Sha story line will be pretty much over come patch 5.1. We will apparently have other things to contend with.

[MoanaLisa]

Judging by the current expansion's theme, it comes as obvious that Garrosh will be taken over by the sha of hatred/anger/violence and will be killed. There will probably there will be some redeeming dialogue that he wasn't himself or something.

I can see the cutscene even now assuming that he doesn't actually get killed, just subdued:

<Garrosh surveys a steaming pile of wood and metal that was the former Orgrimmar. The other racial leaders stand around him looking grim.>

"Sorry about that. I don't know what came over me."

<FADE>

[Kittyvicious]

I don't remember them specifically stating he was not sha correupted. But it was said, either in a tweet by Ghostcrawler or some other source that they Sha story line will be pretty much over come patch 5.1. We will apparently have other things to contend with.

This would be a great change of pace from their usual storytelling. Letting the leveling and initial raids actually accomplish something, rather than be the setup for the end. For once we may actually have *new* things happening while we're playing the game, instead of knowing exactly what to expect and just waiting for the patch that brings it.

I would applaud this narrative as something they've needed for a while.

[Babaganouch]

Let some high up Blood Elf male become "Warchief", and decorate OG with purple drapes n carpets.

[Dariela]

I would have to guess phasing. I don't see them re-re-doing the quests again so quickly after Cata.

[Ciddy]

I guess they'll use phasing. All the lowbie/starting quests still have Garrosh as warchief as if MoP never happened, but once you hit a certain level, you go through some short "siege of Orgrimmar" event that changes stuff.

I doubt Blizzard would want to spend time on redesigning all that stuff. They've already said they're not fixing the damage Deathwing did to Stormwind anytime soon, so I don't think a complete redesign of Orgrimmar (which would likely be tons more work than fixing Stormwind) is happening anytime soon either.

[dokilar]

im still of the belief he'll be redeemed.

most of the people who hate garrosh are also completely against the notion that a non orc can become the leader of the horde. so who would be picked to succeed garrosh should he die? thrall is the logical choice but i suspect he wont be the one. none of the other orcs have gotten as much face time cept saurfang who is considered by many to be too old. i suspect saurfang will probably die in the siege raid simply because of his statements to garrosh back in northrend.

voljin could become warchief, or possibly baine. i suspect baine is a good replacement seeing as how cairne would have become warchief had he won the duel (which he was winning until the poison from magatha took its effect). so those are my two guesses.

but back on topic, what will happen to the 1-60 questing and orgimmar? nothing, just like nothing has happened to any of the other areas in tbc and wrath (except for the wrathgate scenario being taken out).

[MasterOfKnees]

I'm thinking that Orgrimmar needs to be redone after we have completely wrecked it by the end of this expansion, so that shouldn't be the problem. I have no idea how they'll alter the quests, I dearly hope it won't be a time paradox thing like going to Northrend, the new Cataclysm zones and Outland, because that sucks. Garrosh's presence is also much more apparent for the Horde quests than any of the other villains. I hope they remake some of the quests for that, but I guess we'll see.

I personally hope he won't die. Now that both Illidan, Arthas and Deathwing have died it would be predictable, and there's still so much more to Garrosh than this that can be used. Ending the Hellscream line would be a tragedy imo.

[Protar]

They've already confirmed, Garrosh isn't corrupted by the sha or demons, he isn't possessed by anything, he's just a bad orc who goes down a dark path.

Source?

(apologies if you posted it downthread, haven't read everything yet.)

---------- Post added 2012-10-08 at 07:39 PM ----------

This would be a great change of pace from their usual storytelling. Letting the leveling and initial raids actually accomplish something, rather than be the setup for the end. For once we may actually have *new* things happening while we're playing the game, instead of knowing exactly what to expect and just waiting for the patch that brings it.

I would applaud this narrative as something they've needed for a while.

That would be a complete narrative waste imo to just get rid of them like that so soon. If Garrosh isn't possessed by a Sha I will be both very surprised and very dissapointed.

[shimargh]

they'll do just the same as always. NOTHING.
making the whole timeline a mess once more and giving a shit about it.

[Trassk]

But outside the game Jeese Cox (in a youtube video with Pride) tweeted Chris Metzen about this and Chris said MoP is the calm before the storm :P
Though i think its a surprise we're gonna have to wait for, while i hate messed up timelines in game, i think i'll just deal with whatever they dish out. As long as Garrosh wasn't being 'used' and did all this on his own i think i'll like the end even if he will still be sat in the valley of honor XD

Actually the calm before the storm is the opening to mists of pandaria. The 'storm' is what hits in the first major patch once the horde/alliance forces hit pandaria.

[Hardstyler01]

Garrosh has been kidnapped and replaced by a Dreadlord who took his shape since they left Northrend. That's why he allows summoning of demons and whatnot on Pandaria.

We will figure it out at the end of the expansion when we will fight the Dreadlord who took the form of Garrosh, and be told that the real Garrosh is still alive, but taken somewhere else, and something bad is about to happen to him, they are going to inject demon blood into him! And that my friends, is where the new expansion starts with the invasion of the Burning Legion again, that Wrathion shows in his visions.

*Tinfoilhat*

I'll have to admit, your version is probably a lot better than what Blizzard comes up with.

It gives us a real fight against 'Garrosh'/Dreadlord, and it gives a good explanation to have a good Garrosh still living as well.
And since Garrosh is one of the few Orcs free from Demonic Corruption, he should really be the hope for their new generations, it would be fun seeing him take the fight to the Legion.

Still, I think Sha corruption is the more likely candidate for Garrosh. It does tie up all the loose ends and really finishes the storyline for MoP.

[Destil]

Actually the calm before the storm is the opening to mists of pandaria. The 'storm' is what hits in the first major patch once the horde/alliance forces hit pandaria.

I'm not convinced this expansion is the last of the war between the two factions.

[Anakonda]

Vaelastrasz is a boss in BWL, he ends up dead.
He is still an NPC in multiple zones as well as LBRS.

What that means is that just because X dies, doesnt mean X gets "erased". Some things, like UC battle, were changed - but mostly due to phasing mechanics. Rest will remain.

From the lore perspective, Garrosh doesnt "go bad" until the time of raid. Meaning while you are killing boars / elves/ whatever in, say, stonetalon mountains, he's still same garrosh you have known. And then you progress "time-wise" forward, as your character ages and "stuff happens", garrosh changes.

When you start out as level 1 character in cataclysm, Deathwing is still alive. He might have died 10000000 times alreayd, but technically, he's alive until you enter the raid and kill him. You, as in your character. Same with garrosh. Until your character witnesses him go "bad", he's still same as he was.

[Tenjen]

They arent gonna change ogrimmar again, why would they? The first time around was an update to the defences, specially after the cataclysm ruined stuff. Theres no reason or logic behind changing it again.

Also, anakonda, some major events are persistent across all levels. Maybe deathwing isnt dead when you're level one, but lady prestor isnt standing beside the throne and varian is the king. Garrosh being overthrown and replaced is one of those major lore events that changes the ingame zones across all levels. They cant have different warchiefs sitting on the throne.

They would have to change certain quests though, like the druid school bombing. (change it to a recovering bombed site?)

[Kittyvicious]

That would be a complete narrative waste imo to just get rid of them like that so soon. If Garrosh isn't possessed by a Sha I will be both very surprised and very dissapointed.

Considering that the last 3 expansions we have known who, what, when, where, and why we are killing the last boss, actually accomplishing something in the beginning life cycle of a game is not a waste. It's proof that we have grown as factions and can get things done, while also requiring actual content to be put in the game. It's a waste to spend 2-3 years knowing what is coming, with nothing new or relevatory in the process.

As other people have mentioned, sha corruption was the expected reason for Garrosh going apeshit insane. Since before the game was released, people have been calling it. This type of thinking has predicted every single major event, for the most part, in regards to killing bosses and it's getting old. Eliminating the Sha in the beginning of a story gives way to ACTUAL characters being responsible for their actions. It's about damned time we got some credibility and consequences for actions and not just repercussions from being manipulated by demons/lich/titans/old gods/sha.

Think about it. Everyone we've killed as the titular 'final' boss since Ragnaros/Nefarion has been hopped up on the brain control crazy juice. Every.single.one. It's about time we nipped that garbage in the bud and let our stories and the stories of our villains be told.

---------- Post added 2012-10-08 at 03:33 PM ----------

I'm not convinced this expansion is the last of the war between the two factions.

That's what Warcraft 4 is for.

[Trassk]

I'm not convinced this expansion is the last of the war between the two factions.

Who says the 'war' would stop. What happened at the end of WC2 and coming into WC3 was the horde and alliance turning over to a cold war state, so even though they held truce to there agreements, anyone crossing there borders was ripe for being shot/stabbed.

This makes better sense in wow then the current ridiculous war scenario, because this 'war' people think is so great will never have a true winner at the end, both sides will win something from it and neither side will lose, so what is the point in turning it up a notch when it won't go anywhere.