Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1

    Stat Weight Question (Affliction and Demonology)

    I'm having a terrible time figuring out what the stat order should be at mid to high gear.

    The guide on MMO says for Affliction, the order is (Hit -> Mastery >= Haste -> Crit) and Demonology as (Hit -> Haste -> Crit -> Mastery).

    Ask Mr. Robot says for Affliction, the order is (Hit -> Mastery -> Haste -> Crit) and Demonology as (Hit -> Mastery -> Haste -> Crit).

    Ask. Mr. Robot also mentions an Affliction stat order that places Hit behind Mastery and Haste (Mastery -> Haste -> Hit -> Crit).

    Can someone enlighten me?
    Last edited by WildcatTM; 2012-10-05 at 08:57 PM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by WildcatTM View Post
    I'm having a terrible time figuring out what the stat order should be at mid to high gear.

    The guide on MMO says for Affliction, the order is (Hit -> Mastery >= Haste -> Crit) and Demonology as (Hit -> Haste -> Crit -> Mastery).

    Ask Mr. Robot says for Affliction, the order is (Hit -> Mastery -> Haste -> Crit) and Demonology as (Hit -> Mastery -> Haste -> Crit).

    Ask. Mr. Robot also mentions an Affliction stat order that places Hit behind Mastery and Haste (Mastery -> Haste -> Hit -> Crit).

    Can someone enlighten me?
    If you are great at catching misses and reacting appropriately then you should go with

    Mastery >= Haste > Hit > Crit

    If you are not or don't want to have to deal with missing at all then go for hit-cap but still with

    Hit > Mastery >= Haste > Crit



    Mastery and haste provide more dps than hit does if you are decently good at catching and reacting to misses as well as making use of Pandemic to it's full potential as affliction.

  3. #3
    Oh man, not being at hit cap... This reminds me of T11 affliction, the debate of 15% hit vs 17%... People went banana's over the idea of missing 2% hit.

    When I did ask Mr. Robot, it had me reforged to 8% which is 7% under hit, so I can only imagine what a debate that will cause.

    I see the sense in it... you can recast your dots easily and MG easily and get more benefit from the other stats. But the main huge issue I see with going with a lower amount of hit, is Haunt... If that misses, I would imagine that being a dps loss, especially if you keep missing a lot in a row, would it not?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Örchid View Post
    Oh man, not being at hit cap... This reminds me of T11 affliction, the debate of 15% hit vs 17%... People went banana's over the idea of missing 2% hit.

    When I did ask Mr. Robot, it had me reforged to 8% which is 7% under hit, so I can only imagine what a debate that will cause.

    I see the sense in it... you can recast your dots easily and MG easily and get more benefit from the other stats. But the main huge issue I see with going with a lower amount of hit, is Haunt... If that misses, I would imagine that being a dps loss, especially if you keep missing a lot in a row, would it not?
    That's the problem to this question. Hit guarantees you that you never miss, without it you will still have fights where you hardly miss (making you do more damage cause you have more damage stats) but also fights where you miss alot resulting in lower damage. The average of your DPS goes up in this case, but that means there will be bad pulls where you are in the dumps. Raidleaders seem to dislike it for progression cause of the unreliability of it.
    Your soul shall be mine! ||| Forum rules ||| New England Patriots

  5. #5
    from what ive heard, mastery and haste "scales" off eachother, by that i mean that if you have significantly more mastery than haste, then haste will be the superior stat and vice verse, which is why you should balance you mastery and haste as much as you can. the general concensus is that you'd want slihtly more haste than mastery.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Örchid View Post
    Oh man, not being at hit cap... This reminds me of T11 affliction, the debate of 15% hit vs 17%... People went banana's over the idea of missing 2% hit.

    When I did ask Mr. Robot, it had me reforged to 8% which is 7% under hit, so I can only imagine what a debate that will cause.

    I see the sense in it... you can recast your dots easily and MG easily and get more benefit from the other stats. But the main huge issue I see with going with a lower amount of hit, is Haunt... If that misses, I would imagine that being a dps loss, especially if you keep missing a lot in a row, would it not?
    Better than me. With ilvl 371 AskMrRobot puts me at...5.76% hit. As a lock that's been around since the beginning of time, and always having to be hit capped each tier, minus beginning of Cata when you could be 1-2% below, this is...unsettling to say the least! >.<

  7. #7
    Hey everyone, I'm one of the people behind Ask Mr. Robot. I like this thread - fairly calm about not being hit capped Anyway, I wanted to let you know that we have a second stat weight preset you can choose from, that favors getting you to the hit cap. Click on the "Gearing Strategy" drop down box to select it. We don't have it selected by default, because as you guys seem to already know: favoring other stats over hit (for affliction) gets you more DPS.
    Optimize your gear on AskMrRobot.com
    From Mr. Robot: Find the best gear in your bags, help & faq, and Preview our combat log tool.
    Mr. Robot is also on Twitter

  8. #8
    Thanks for the feed back so far. I'm still confused about the different stat weights between MMO and Ask Mr. Robot. Specifically Demonology. I've always stacked mastery, but as I pointed out, MMO is stating the haste is a better stat. Any idea as to the reasoning behind it?

  9. #9
    The more times you hit the faster you can hulk out and smash face. I try to get some crit in there to get my fire spell to proc (demonology)
    Last edited by DeadmanWalking; 2012-10-07 at 03:55 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by WildcatTM View Post
    Thanks for the feed back so far. I'm still confused about the different stat weights between MMO and Ask Mr. Robot. Specifically Demonology. I've always stacked mastery, but as I pointed out, MMO is stating the haste is a better stat. Any idea as to the reasoning behind it?
    I think evrelia used the gear listed in the thread to get the stat weights used for that priority. You should run your own char through SimCraft because I think that's what everyone else have been doing to find out what is better.

    Here's my stat weights for reference:



    Haste seems to be a clear winner even with better gear and will probably keep being best for demo for a while.
    Last edited by Bonkura; 2012-10-07 at 03:29 AM.

  11. #11
    Anyone from Ask Mr. robot to answer this question would be apprecaited... Why does Mr. robot still have Windsong as the preferred enchant, when it is completely useless to affy locks? It's also telling me to get Expertise enchant on my hand slot... ugh?

  12. #12
    Because we all know that Mr.Robot is unreliable. I don't even know why people raid without being hitcapped just doesn't make sense to me.

  13. #13
    1. Get hit cap or close to it, missing can be a very big deal. If someone was in my raid and said "Oh I couldn't finish the elegon energy charge because I missed" that would be an instant kick from the raid.

    2. Use simcraft to get initial weights. Reforge in that direction (but not entirely), rerunn simulation, see if weights have changed, reforge in (new) direction. Repeat until the dps in simcraft doesn't move.

    As a rule of thumb, for affliction try to get a 1:1 haste mastey ratio and avoid crit. For demonology, each stats are pretty equal so try to balance them out.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by rezoacken View Post
    2. Use simcraft to get initial weights. Reforge in that direction (but not entirely), rerunn simulation, see if weights have changed, reforge in (new) direction. Repeat until the dps in simcraft doesn't move.
    Use reforge plots between your 2 best stats. Will tell you the optimal combination of those two stats all other things being equal without you having to run multiple sims.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by rezoacken View Post
    1. Get hit cap or close to it, missing can be a very big deal. If someone was in my raid and said "Oh I couldn't finish the elegon energy charge because I missed" that would be an instant kick from the raid.

    2. Use simcraft to get initial weights. Reforge in that direction (but not entirely), rerunn simulation, see if weights have changed, reforge in (new) direction. Repeat until the dps in simcraft doesn't move.

    As a rule of thumb, for affliction try to get a 1:1 haste mastey ratio and avoid crit. For demonology, each stats are pretty equal so try to balance them out.
    There's nothing I agree with in this post. Please don't listen to any of this.

  16. #16
    If council bosses (The Stone Guard - Mogu'shan Vaults) favor mastery over hit, what about grimoires, will sacrifice lose here too?
    Custom warlock script for Ovale Spell Priority addon
    http://wow.curseforge.com/addons/ova...script-wip/#p1

  17. #17
    In any fight where you do very little channeling then the other grims will begin to catch up or even pull ahead as their damage increase isn't reliant upon you casting Haunt/MG/DS.

    I don't know how little you have to be channeling for this to be the case, however simulationcraft uses I believe supremacy when there's more then 3 targets.

  18. #18
    Hey, good question about Windsong. It looks like we filtered out Jade Spirit because the spirit is irrelevant. We'll fix that today so we suggest Jade Spirit. Good catch

    Buklao - can you explain what you think is unreliable? Then I can look into it

    As for raiding while not being hit capped - for Aff locks, you actually get more DPS when you favor other stats over hit. And for other classes, sometimes Mr. Robot gets you close to the hit cap, but not exact. There's also a good reason for that. Let's say for another class, crit is by far your best secondary stat, and mastery is your worst. There are a finite number of ways to get exactly hit capped - and to do that, let's say you have to reforge all of your crit to hit. That's sacrificing a lot of your best stat. Now, let's say Mr. Robot gets you to 0.02% of the hit cap, but preserves all of your hit and reforges away all of your mastery instead. You'll end up doing more DPS in Mr. Robot's scenario. I have more info on some of these questions here, if you're interested: http://blog.askmrrobot.com/2012/10/h...ptimizer-work/
    Optimize your gear on AskMrRobot.com
    From Mr. Robot: Find the best gear in your bags, help & faq, and Preview our combat log tool.
    Mr. Robot is also on Twitter

  19. #19
    After clearing normals today I have to say not being hit capped on multidot fights is really frustrating. That RNG is just hard to deal with and probably something I'll personally avoid. For single target fights I see no reason whatsoever to go for hit cap as long as it's lower dps in simcraft. I managed to get rank 1 affli lock on Feng. Could've been a rank 1 overall in a previous pull if it a healer didn't disconnect when I was at 73k dps right before execution phase (~30% left on boss). I kept all hit on my gear and reforged haste to mastery where I could.

  20. #20
    That weights change a lot based on your own personal gear.

    Your best bet is to simcraft your own character (http://www.simulationcraft.org, its pretty much point and click), plug the stat weights (of a 10k+ iterations sim) into your favorite reforger (I'm using mr robot at the moment as it handles spirit/expertise well, BUT keep in mind it handles JC badly) and away you go. Repeat this once or twice.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •