1. #1

    Are rogues or monks better for 10 man raiding?

    Our guild is trying to decide if we should go with a dps rogue or monk to fill our last spot on the roster? Which one brings more to the table?

  2. #2
    I personally am a fan of rogues, especially if you have a healing monk in the group.

  3. #3
    In all honesty, this shouldn't really be judged by class... I would be opening applications for an exceptional Rogue or Monk DPS slot and from there going with the player that best suits your raid as a person and playstyle wise.

    Its not a clear cut answer.

  4. #4
    I'd go with a monk just because they can alt-spec to heal if one of your healers gets bored later down the farming road of raiding.

    The diversity from having an extra possible healer is good incase your attendance is iffy.

  5. #5
    Why is the choice between a Monk and Rogue if I may ask?

    Monks don't seem to be doing as well at the moment and there is quite a bit of movement required in T14, which isn't going to help your Fists of Fury ability. Rogues are doing great DPS and as always are insanely strong on cleave fights like Stone Guards. Neither Rogues or Monks provide any special utility worth taking them for.

    However I don't see a reason to bring either class to a 10 man raid. Unless you don't have any melee at all in your group, you might want to consider a solid ranged class you can play well.
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  6. #6
    If those are your only options and you're not bringing them for off-specs, and they're being played at the same level of quality, I'd bring the rogue, without more information. We've got a nearly unrivaled ability to avoid damage, and when cleave-able fights come up, Combat's silly. Unless you're juggling buffs or offspecs, though, I can't come up with a good reason to bring either over another ranged DPS.

  7. #7
    Drop both for a feral druid?

  8. #8
    Brewmaster Buxton McGraff's Avatar
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    Monks have more mobility with Roll and Flying Serpent Kick. We can throw out extra heals with Chi Wave, that crit up to 60k. Our survivability is awesome. We have Touch of Karma which absorbs our health in damage, and instead redirects all that damage towards the target of the ability. Basically gives you a freebee to stand in shit and do about 400k dmg with one move. We also have Diffuse Magic which reduces all spell damage taken by 90%, removes all magical debuffs, and sends them back at the target if possible.

  9. #9

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    Why is the choice between a Monk and Rogue if I may ask?

    Monks don't seem to be doing as well at the moment and there is quite a bit of movement required in T14, which isn't going to help your Fists of Fury ability. Rogues are doing great DPS and as always are insanely strong on cleave fights like Stone Guards. Neither Rogues or Monks provide any special utility worth taking them for.
    I'm guessing because they don't want two Agi leather melee DPS classes in the one 10m raid. And Rogue DPS would best be described as middle of the road at the moment.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    Neither Rogues or Monks provide any special utility worth taking them for.

    However I don't see a reason to bring either class to a 10 man raid. Unless you don't have any melee at all in your group, you might want to consider a solid ranged class you can play well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    If those are your only options and you're not bringing them for off-specs, and they're being played at the same level of quality, I'd bring the rogue, without more information. We've got a nearly unrivaled ability to avoid damage, and when cleave-able fights come up, Combat's silly. Unless you're juggling buffs or offspecs, though, I can't come up with a good reason to bring either over another ranged DPS.
    Hum, you both said it. Why bring a rogue when you can have a ranged? Feint+CloS.
    In a raid enviroment a well played rogue can and will almost always be the number 10 of 10 in damage taken. Although I have to admit, most melees got these abilities these days. Like at Elegon, almost every melee can stay until 12+ stacks without trouble and take less damage while ranged have to step out of it every 5 stacks and take more damage too.

    Will of the emperor a rogue is awesome too. 70 % snare, CC, huge damage on the bosses when you evade the combos.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegirl91 View Post
    Hum, you both said it. Why bring a rogue when you can have a ranged? Feint+CloS.
    In a raid enviroment a well played rogue can and will almost always be the number 10 of 10 in damage taken. Although I have to admit, most melees got these abilities these days. Like at Elegon, almost every melee can stay until 12+ stacks without trouble and take less damage while ranged have to step out of it every 5 stacks and take more damage too.

    Will of the emperor a rogue is awesome too. 70 % snare, CC, huge damage on the bosses when you evade the combos.
    Because a ranged like a warlock does substantially more damage on most things? Because that shadow priest can pop VE and do massive raid healing at no dps loss? Because a feral can use his healing on anyone where as the rogue can only save himself? Being last on damage taken is nice and all, but as a dps you are there primarily for dps which is lowered by doing that putting you further behind on damage (not that I'm saying a rogue shouldn't be doing that). Its not nearly as useful as you would make it seem compared to a class that does already higher dps and won't lose any for their raid wide utility.

    Those ranged dps on elegon also only have to either move an inch or actually simply jump in the air while they cast an instant spell to reset their stacks. That is an extremely minimal dps loss. Even if you are taking 12 before resetting, you are still losing more dps.

    Will I'd say is actually a horrible rogue fight. You are constantly switching to adds and running around which we suck at. If you actually need a 70% snare, you're doing it way, way wrong. Our CC on them is pitiful compared to the AE and no cooldown CC of other classes. Anyone can dance on the boss for damage. Less beneficial for casters, but any melee can do the exact same thing (ours just don't because they are all vastly better at the adds where as rogues not on the boss are not that great).

    I'm not saying we're broken. Our damage is fine, but we are lacking in other areas and no, us taking less personal damage doesn't make up for it, especially when that lowers our damage further. 0 dps loss raid abilities are far better to have than the one guy who takes less damage themself but can't do anything to keep the other people up.

  13. #13
    Rogues bring nothing unique to a raid at this point. Warlocks have the magic debuff and more, attack speed is given by other classes with much more to bring.

  14. #14
    Personally, I would bring a monk. Given both are within the same range of DPS as each other, the off-Heals and utility they bring would be more beneficial for the group than that of a rogues. Granted this is only if problems arise during a boss, but the added security can't hurt

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    snip
    And a good rogue still outdamages these same ranged while also taking 50-70 % less damage all the while, because the game is balanced around these things. I've yet to see any ranged above my dps. Mogushan Vaults is pretty balanced, so that 1-2 Melees are almost mandatory at every fight.

    Want proof?
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/q...5918#Valendris
    Valendris my rogue. At the Will of the Emperor fight I had to help with the adds and still placed 1st. :x
    Last edited by Bluegirl91; 2012-10-30 at 06:35 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegirl91 View Post
    And a good rogue still outdamages these same ranged while also taking 50-70 % less damage all the while, because the game is balanced around these things. I've yet to see any ranged above my dps. Mogushan Vaults is pretty balanced, so that 1-2 Melees are almost mandatory at every fight.

    Want proof?
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/q...5918#Valendris
    Valendris my rogue. At the Will of the Emperor fight I had to help with the adds and still placed 1st. :x
    140k on Elegon is great, of course, but saying that you're doing top damage (even for all fights) in your raid doesn't mean that rogues are ideal overall... my warlock's up to 463 now, only ran ~45k on Spirit Kings because I screwed up pretty bad, but popped 65k on Gara'jal. I imagine in 477 gear my warlock will be pulling the face off my rogue there. On Will (LFR; be fair, my warlock is 5 days old), my lock last ran 59k DPS and overtook a healer on the healing meter... I was no lower than #5 on any target, including either boss. I've got no reason to think that in 23 itemlevels, with a 502 weapon (was using a 463 at the time), I'll have trouble matching or outdamaging my rogue on each fight* (*except stone guardians) . I was, thankfully, able to shift my rogue to our B-team, so at least I can still play my rogue.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    140k on Elegon is great, of course, but saying that you're doing top damage (even for all fights) in your raid doesn't mean that rogues are ideal overall... my warlock's up to 463 now, only ran ~45k on Spirit Kings because I screwed up pretty bad, but popped 65k on Gara'jal. I imagine in 477 gear my warlock will be pulling the face off my rogue there. On Will (LFR; be fair, my warlock is 5 days old), my lock last ran 59k DPS and overtook a healer on the healing meter... I was no lower than #5 on any target, including either boss. I've got no reason to think that in 23 itemlevels, with a 502 weapon (was using a 463 at the time), I'll have trouble matching or outdamaging my rogue on each fight* (*except stone guardians) . I was, thankfully, able to shift my rogue to our B-team, so at least I can still play my rogue.
    But then... even if the "well played" warlock would do 5k-10k more dps on some fights as the same "well played" rogue, the rogue still takes much less damage and brings some nice utility to the raid. I think the whole ranged vs melee discussion is very unneccessary, as it really depends more on the player and both equally shine if played well. Although it may be true than on most fights you can't bring 5-6 melees, where you can bring 5-6 ranged dps without outgearing it.

  18. #18
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    Monk - better clutch raid abilities and gives you the option of getting more use out of tank/healer gear.
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