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  1. #1

    Lightbulb Six Elder Dragons not Five * Spoilers *

    First of all , this topic have heavy spoilers .. so don't read if you hate spoilers




    I didn't came up with this speculation myself , but I just wanted to put all thoughts and ideas in one solid topic , because I found it very interesting twist in lore ....

    At start we know that there are five elder dragons that have awaken :

    Kralkatorrik : The Crystal Dragon that can turn any living thing into a crystal creature called " The Branded "

    Zhaitan : The undead dragon that can turn any dead creature into undead called
    " The Risen "


    Jormag : the Ice dragon that can corrupt any living creature into icy
    corrupted version called " The Icebrood "

    Primordus : The fire dragon that can create his own minions from rock and lava and are called " The Destroyers "

    Deep Sea Dragon : which we don't have alot of information about besides
    that he resides in the deep ocean , and there is some speculations that the krait are his minions or at least servants


    now what if we were wrong , and there is actually six dragons not five as we thought , and this seems to be not just a wild speculation , but the Durmand Priory actually concluded this as a fact ...

    because there is a very interesting NPC in the Durmand Priory called "Scholar Trueclaw " , and he will say this interesting line :

    "Jotun, mursaat, forgotten, seer, dwarf. Five against six. It seems so unfair. And, yet.. "


    but thats not all , this particular NPC will have an extra dialogue if you are part of the order of whispers as you can say

    " One must count the uncounted. "

    and his reply will be

    " And name the unnamed. Shh, I can't talk long. There are eyes and ears everywhere in this place. Infiltrating the Priory has been my hardest assignment to date. "

    now thats getting pretty interesting , why he said five races against six ? and what did he mean by one must count the uncounted ?

    * for the full script of the NPC check this :
    http://wiki.guildwar...cholar_Trueclaw

    does this mean there must be a sixth dragon we didn't count and it
    should be remained unnamed ...

    Now there are several hints around the world that leads us to solve this
    mystery by ourselves ...

    1- The Crucible of Eternity entrance is a hexagon , each one of them
    represent one of the elder dragons
    ... one site with fire , another with crystals , another with bones , another with Ice and another one with water .... and finally
    there is a sixth site with forest and trees

    2- Any Elder dragon have a way to create his own army , Three dragons
    create there army by using the living (( or there body )) which are the
    branded , Icebrood and the risen .... those dragons can corrupt any
    uncorrupted form of life , we can see a corrupted version of each race ....
    each race have a corrupted version ... all but one ... the sylvari ... we have never seen a risen sylvari ... or branded sylvari or Icebrood sylvari ... that for sure raises a question .... Why ?

    3- also we know that the fourth dragon doesn't need a living creature to
    create his army , instead he can create his army from the elements he have
    power over
    , so he create his army " The Destroyers " from lave and stones ,
    now who else had the power to create a race from nothing except the elements he have power over !! ... yes the Sylvari

    4- Now it all becomes more clear , and what strengthen this speculation is that the sylvari came into life at the same time the elder dragons awaken ... Coincidence !!

    5- Another interesting note , that through all our encounters with the
    Nightmare Court , they keep saying that the Ventari Tablet's teachings has deviated them from what they were truly created for , and they always look at the other sylvari as brainwashed or deluded !!


    now all this hints gives us two speculations , that there is a sixth
    dragon represent nature
    , and this dragon minion's are the Sylvari ..

    but that will also leads us to few more questions ... what is the nature of the
    pale tree in this ... is the pale tree is the sixth dragon ? ... but this
    seems unlogical , what seems more logical is that the pale tree is
    actually a champion of the sixth elder dragon
    , and has been influenced
    by the Ventari and decided to betray her master and side with the mortal races .... we have a similar case happened in the Guild Wars history , as " Glint " was a champion of the elder dragon Kralkatorrik and betrayed him and sided with the mortal races ....

    or we can think about it in a more twisted way , that this is actually a
    part of the sixth elder dragon plot
    , to weaken the other elder dragons with
    there fight agianst the mortal races and in the same time replenishing his own
    army with more sylvari ... and in the right moment he assumes control and destroy what is left of Tyria races or the elder dragons (( whoever wins ))


    there are also small hints here and there that supports this theory but they are not as strong as
    the above hints :

    - At the sylvari tutorial area , you will face a tree like dragon , which have no other match in the world and its totally unique ... why its related to sylvari dream ?

    -The sylvari are the only race that are concerned with the elder dragons
    from the first moment they were born and they take it as there purpose in life to destroy the elder dragons , and they seem to be the most race that are aware of there threat .

    -The sylvari knows too much about zhaitan and his powers more than any
    other race (( even the older races )) , and four of them where actually key factors in defeating zhaitan
    (( Trahearne , Caithe , Tegwen , Carys ))

    - The pale tree knows too much things that predates the time she was
    planted in earth , she knows the full history of Orr , and she also gives us hints about how to defeat Zhaitan

    - The Sylvari don't age , and there are no sylvari childern ... they are
    just created !!


    This topic is opened for discussion and to other speculations or hints that
    can support or reject those assumptions


  2. #2
    yea i have to agree with everything here except for your speculation of the the six elder dragon wanting tyria for itself. Im more inclined to think that Ventari's teachings did confuse it as it was awakening. Theres another thing. I dont believe any of the other dragon champions actually created more minions now i am prolly very wrong on this and maybe they can. But if they cant i dont see the pale tree being a champ for the 6th dragon but being the 6th dragon itself. Now if they can then yea shes the 6th dragons champ and the 6th dragon is being held at bay while the nightmare court are being called by it and try to find some way to kill the pale tree so that the 6th dragon can be released.

  3. #3
    isn't the corrupted version of the sylvari the Nightmare Court?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Daffkeeks View Post
    isn't the corrupted version of the sylvari the Nightmare Court?
    what hes saying is that the nightmare court are what the sylvari are supposed to be. Primordus creates destroyers as his minions, This guy is saying that the 6th dragon creates sylvari as its minions but for some reason its minions have been altered, prolly because of the Tablet. The pale tree could be keeping the 6th dragon from awakening or it could be the 6th dragon itself. The nightmare could be the 6th dragons way of talking to the sylvari trying to get them back under its control. The nightmare court are the sylvari that have fallen back under the 6th dragons control and are trying to attack the pale tree to free their master.

    At least thats what it seems like to me.

  5. #5
    Never trusted pale tree or sylvari, it could be that Pale Tree is Avatar of sixth dragon, sylvari are just mindless puppets of tree do whatever "Dream" tell them or go Emo.

  6. #6
    if this is true than it's kinda unlikely to make them a playable race

  7. #7
    Brewmaster Newbryn's Avatar
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    It would make sense for the pale tree to be a champion not the elder dragon herself, after all it started out as a seed that was planted. therefore my take on it is that this unknown elder dragon maybe drops these seeds from its body and the pale tree is born as a way for its minion to be created which are the sylvari. The form the sylvari has right now may not also be their true form, it did say the place where ronan found the seed there were strange plant creatures, so those creatures may have been what the original sylvari are like
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  8. #8
    Mechagnome Window's Avatar
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    interesting read either way
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  9. #9
    well, big spoiler, the pale tree is not unique, there are more trees out there where other sylvari are born from. these sylvari are not tought by ventari's teachings and have no clue about the dream or the nightmare. the pale tree was one of many seeds in a cave. who knows how much more of those trees there are out there.
    Last edited by Daffkeeks; 2012-10-07 at 02:42 PM.

  10. #10
    Mechagnome Laddips's Avatar
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    One thing that throws a wrench in that theory,is that there is more than one Pale Tree.

  11. #11
    Well i had a somewhat same idea a while back about the Pale Tree being the elder dragon, but had to many arguments against that so that wasn't an option, but i'm pretty sure there are more Elder Dragon and not just 1, more then that.

  12. #12
    Legendary! Spl4sh3r's Avatar
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    Couldn't you have had the same size in the whole text? It is really annoying to read something formatted like that.

    With that said, most already guessed that Sylvari belonged to some sort of Elder Dragon.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Laddips View Post
    One thing that throws a wrench in that theory,is that there is more than one Pale Tree.
    any elder dragon have more than one champion , look at zhaitan


  14. #14
    Could have sworn there was at least 2 other threads around here with this "revelation" of the Pale Tree. But it might have just been PS discussion. I forget details a lot. D:

  15. #15
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...poilers-maybe)

    My attempt at Pale dragon sixth elder dragon sylvari connection thingy.

  16. #16
    Titan smrund's Avatar
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    So, even if there is a 6th Elder Dragon, what indication do we have that it's evil aside from the fact that the other dragons are?
    We have a dragon of death and destruction.
    We have a dragon of fire and destruction.
    We have a dragon of ice and destruction.
    We have a dragon of crystal and destruction.
    We have a dragon that may be related to the oceans and the Krait.
    All of these dragons have one thing in common: they are opposed to life and favor it's destruction.

    And then we have a speculated dragon of life and creation.

    Perhaps the 6th dragon is not evil, and all the living plant things, sylvari included are it's progeny. Why would this dragon seek destruction? It's counter to it's nature. Conquest? Sure, but even this would not be done with destruction of life. It's specified that each awakening of the dragons has brought forth a "new era of life" in the wake of the destruction.

    Perhaps the cycle is simply that the 5 evil ones destroy the world while the 6ths awakens later to regenerate it.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    So, even if there is a 6th Elder Dragon, what indication do we have that it's evil aside from the fact that the other dragons are?
    We have a dragon of death and destruction.
    We have a dragon of fire and destruction.
    We have a dragon of ice and destruction.
    We have a dragon of crystal and destruction.
    We have a dragon that may be related to the oceans and the Krait.
    All of these dragons have one thing in common: they are opposed to life and favor it's destruction.

    And then we have a speculated dragon of life and creation.

    Perhaps the 6th dragon is not evil, and all the living plant things, sylvari included are it's progeny. Why would this dragon seek destruction? It's counter to it's nature. Conquest? Sure, but even this would not be done with destruction of life. It's specified that each awakening of the dragons has brought forth a "new era of life" in the wake of the destruction.

    Perhaps the cycle is simply that the 5 evil ones destroy the world while the 6ths awakens later to regenerate it.
    simply because the Scholar Trueclaw stated .... five against six .... if the sixth dragon was not evil ... why the previous five races battled him ?


  18. #18
    The dragon in the Sylvari tutorial area is part of the dream. It is essentially a prophecy showing your character's destiny; your 'Wyld Hunt'. It is a metaphor saying that it is your destiny is to defeat an Elder Dragon, in this case Zhaitan.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Artorias View Post
    The dragon in the Sylvari tutorial area is part of the dream. It is essentially a prophecy showing your character's destiny; your 'Wyld Hunt'. It is a metaphor saying that it is your destiny is to defeat an Elder Dragon, in this case Zhaitan.
    Except the dragon you fight in the dream doesn't represent zhaitan directly. It's just a dragon made out of nature. Who says it's not another dragon?

    So, even if there is a 6th Elder Dragon, what indication do we have that it's evil aside from the fact that the other dragons are?
    We have a dragon of death and destruction.
    We have a dragon of fire and destruction.
    We have a dragon of ice and destruction.
    We have a dragon of crystal and destruction.
    We have a dragon that may be related to the oceans and the Krait.
    All of these dragons have one thing in common: they are opposed to life and favor it's destruction.

    And then we have a speculated dragon of life and creation.

    the 6th dragon is not evil, and all the living plant things, sylvari included are it's progeny. Why would this dragon seek destruction? It's counter to it's nature. Conquest? Sure, but even this would not be done with destruction of life. It's specified that each awakening of the dragons has brought forth a "new era of life" in the wake of the destruction.

    Perhaps the cycle is simply that the 5 evil ones destroy the world while the 6ths awakens later to regenerate it.
    I don't think the life dragon is evil in a sense but a wrong sense of justice. Perhaps it wan'ts to recreate the world in an uncorrupted version. Maybe the gods left because they believe it to be so?

  20. #20
    Titan smrund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HiTmAn47 View Post
    simply because the Scholar Trueclaw stated .... five against six .... if the sixth dragon was not evil ... why the previous five races battled him ?
    You don't always fight against evil things, established cultures classically fought against change, even for the better in their waning years.

    Lets say the 6th dragon wants to re-create the world in the image of plants(this time, indeed all races could be remnants from each world-recreation epoch). In order for that to happen, all non-plant life must be eliminated. Enter the 5 dragons of destruction. They set about destroying the world and every living thing in it. Eventually they peter out and fall asleep again, and when they do the 6th dragon awakens and starts redeveloping the world.

    But lets say the current forms of life have reached a point where they can battle the dragons, successfully. Thus resulting in only a partial destruction due to the surprise and power of the initial attack. The 6th dragon begins to stir while life is still very much thriving in the face of adversity of it's 5 destructive brethren, but it is not fully awake yet, only it's power seeping to the surface, enhancing the Pale Tree to the point where it creates plant-based life ahead of the 6th dragon's schedule or control.

    The 6th dragon isn't "evil", but in order for it to create new life, old life must be destroyed. It's 5 races against 6 dragons, but the 6th dragon's purpose isn't to destroy, it's to create. The existing 5 races must fight in order to survive the creation.
    Sometimes life gives you lemons, other times life gives you boobies. Life is always better with more boobies.
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    And thus I give you: MALE contraception!
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