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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by asb View Post
    Honestly, any of the following would be really helpful. Obviously together they would gut the class, but I think just a few would balance it.
    • Offensive cooldowns grey each other out so they can't stack
    • Remove gag order
    • Charge stun on DR with other stuns
    • Increase shockwave's cooldown
    • Reduce shockwave's duration
    • Get rid of heroic leap
    • Adjust defensive stance and/or second wind

    I can't see how anyone could look at everything warriors have going for them right now and think "Yeah, that's about right. Seems like Blizzard did a good job here."
    - Just NO! You are retarded, I agree with a change, removing the silence from pummel.
    - I agree with DR on Warbinger talent, the other stuns are just ridiculously low to be shared DR.
    - NO! reduce stun duration, Shokwave is good for tanking
    - HELL NO! What class you play? Heroic Leap don't even work properly, it's already tough to have uptime on any target.
    - Def stance in my opinion should require Shield in order to have that 25% dmg reduction. And SW need an internal CD.
    -

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 12:33 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    Lol. Are you really bringing rogues into this? Warriors are miles ahead of rogues. Prep never worked on shadowstep and they can't pick up shadowstep and prep. Shadowstep is a 24 second cooldown. And almost no rogue is picking up prep despite the long ass cooldowns on everything. Try again.

    Yea they did.

    You are one of two classes that can counter pally bubble...
    I know rogues need love, they are energy starving and need some rework, the new talents really screwed with them. I just said that the fact that warriors have low CDs is because we relly on them, we do not have a CD reset like some high CD classes have.

    A bubble was just an example of how you can counter the WTFPWND warrior CD, we can still be stunned, feared, etc. Avatar is just for roots and snares.

    Keep it civil. Don't call people retarded just because you disagree
    Last edited by Norzuk; 2012-10-09 at 03:39 PM. Reason: Improper language

  2. #62
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norzuk View Post
    - Just NO! You are retarded, I agree with a change, removing the silence from pummel.
    - I agree with DR on Warbinger talent, the other stuns are just ridiculously low to be shared DR.
    - NO! reduce stun duration, Shokwave is good for tanking
    - HELL NO! You are retarded. What class you play? Heroic Leap don't even work properly, it's already tough to have uptime on any target.
    - Def stance in my opinion should require Shield in order to have that 25% dmg reduction. And SW need an internal CD.
    -
    You are calling people retarded when you listed pally bubble as a defensive cool down against a warrior and misspelled every other word in your last post. And btw bear form was nerfed for all specs of druid but guardian as well. Heroic leap doesn't work properly? I think that is an issue with you.

  3. #63
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youwow View Post
    lol HYDRA fanboy? Hydra was playing like a shit noob there running with just a renew on his back. and the warrior was just lucky with that insane crit.

    So bad play + insane luck = occasional win stop whining. want me to link the chaos bolt damage a warlock kept doing on my with 5600 resi in AB 2 days ago? and this werent lucky crits cuz they kept coming and then we shall talk again.
    Spell Reflect will fix that.


    Hydra fanboy? Please, just hush.

  4. #64
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norzuk View Post
    I know rogues need love, they are energy starving and need some rework, the new talents really screwed with them. I just said that the fact that warriors have low CDs is because we relly on them, we do not have a CD reset like some high CD classes have.

    A bubble was just an example of how you can counter the WTFPWND warrior CD, we can still be stunned, feared, etc. Avatar is just for roots and snares.

    Keep it civil. Don't call people retarded just because you disagree
    But it really isn't an example. A good warrior will break that bubble off faster than a pally can actually get use of it.

    Rogues don't rely on cooldowns? You obviously have never played a rogue. They can pick up the cooldown reset (also on a 5m cooldown) and be kited the whole game.
    Last edited by Freia; 2012-10-09 at 03:44 PM.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    You are calling people retarded when you listed pally bubble as a defensive cool down against a warrior and misspelled every other word in your last post. And btw bear form was nerfed for all specs of druid but guardian as well. Heroic leap doesn't work properly? I think that is an issue with you.
    Freia, sorry about my english, It's not my mother language. And sorry about calling people names. But is hard to keep the temper when you see people that NEVER played a warrior, don't know how hard to be a mellee class in pvp, come here and say. You are OP, you need a nerf, when we spent a whole season pointing out that the class were very weak and those same people were saying: Warriors are fine. L2P.

    So PVP in this game is like: I kill you, Your class is fine. You kill me OMG NERFBAT! And yeah... lots of pathing problems with heroic leap. Sometimes there is a tiny stone on the way, you use heroic leap and it says "No path available!". It doesn't work most of the times on ramps, and lots of players use that on their advantage.

    A mellee x ranged fight will ever be: Mellee trying to get close, ranged trying to get away. Whoever is more successfull doing that wins.

    And everyclass has its tools to do it. Every.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Norzuk View Post
    Freia, sorry about my english, It's not my mother language. And sorry about calling people names. But is hard to keep the temper when you see people that NEVER played a warrior, don't know how hard to be a mellee class in pvp, come here and say. You are OP, you need a nerf, when we spent a whole season pointing out that the class were very weak and those same people were saying: Warriors are fine. L2P.

    So PVP in this game is like: I kill you, Your class is fine. You kill me OMG NERFBAT! And yeah... lots of pathing problems with heroic leap. Sometimes there is a tiny stone on the way, you use heroic leap and it says "No path available!". It doesn't work most of the times on ramps, and lots of players use that on their advantage.

    A mellee x ranged fight will ever be: Mellee trying to get close, ranged trying to get away. Whoever is more successfull doing that wins.

    And everyclass has its tools to do it. Every.
    I play a rogue and a warrior - warriors need serious nerfing. Sorry if that messes with your preconceptions. Oh and heroic leap works fine, the trick is to not use it to try and climb walls.
    Stormscale Horde EU | http://lastrogue.com

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    But it really isn't an example. A good warrior will break that bubble off faster than a pally can actually get use of it.

    Rogues don't rely on cooldowns? You obviously have never played a rogue. They can pick up the cooldown reset (also on a 5m cooldown) and be kited the whole game.
    Pally bubble is a def CD, rather warriors can dispell or not, depending on fight, how quick is the warrior reaction. And I never said rogues weren't CD dependant.

  8. #68
    i know im going to get banned for this again, but op... well "insert insults here"

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Norzuk View Post
    Pally bubble is a def CD, rather warriors can dispell or not, depending on fight, how quick is the warrior reaction.
    No no no :/ You shouldn't be reacting to the bubble you should be anticipating it and getting ready to shatter it the second it's proc'ed.
    Stormscale Horde EU | http://lastrogue.com

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Dcruize View Post
    I play a rogue and a warrior - warriors need serious nerfing. Sorry if that messes with your preconceptions. Oh and heroic leap works fine, the trick is to not use it to try and climb walls.
    If you read my other posts will see that I do agree warriors need some work, not NERF like some people are saying. Again:

    1 - Second Wind need an internal CD.
    2 - ShockWave need stun duration reduction
    3 - Avatar should count as enraged. The way it is right now you can stack +dmg %.
    4 - Def stance should require a shield otherwise it isn't a stance, is just a presence like DKs
    5 - Gag order only workin with heroic throw.
    6 - Mass spell reflect should require a shield.
    7 - ...

  11. #71
    Bloodsail Admiral nerdjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatsu View Post
    If you say a thing like that, I guess you've never played a warrior.
    Leave charge alone.
    I actually played a warrior from mid BC to mid Cataclysm. I recognize charge possibly not connecting is unattractive, but you must realize that a warrior has a great deal of gap closers right now and is all but inescapable. Besides, charge coding was changed a little while back. I'm sure you remember that even with the stun you'd never hit your target previous to that. I don't think it's a great suggestion, but between that and shockwave warriors have you stunned about as much as you possibly can be. Of all ways to fix that though, I'd much prefer a slightly longer shockwave cooldown.

    Also, charge doesn't even have to stun. It could be changed to an immobilize or be given a slow like feral charge and it would still serve its purpose. I don't see any reason to change something more than is necessary though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Norzuk View Post
    - Just NO! You are retarded, I agree with a change, removing the silence from pummel.
    - I agree with DR on Warbinger talent, the other stuns are just ridiculously low to be shared DR.
    - NO! reduce stun duration, Shokwave is good for tanking
    - HELL NO! What class you play? Heroic Leap don't even work properly, it's already tough to have uptime on any target.
    - Def stance in my opinion should require Shield in order to have that 25% dmg reduction. And SW need an internal CD.
    -
    Jesus Christ bro, calm yourself down. I didn't say they're all great ideas, but they're all possible ways to bring the class down a little bit (and it really does need to be done). Messing with charge stun or the duration on shockwave would probably be my last choices on that list, but they're still candidates.

    Btw cooldown stacking is warrors' biggest issue atm. I don't care if you think I'm retarded for saying it; it says more about you than me.

  12. #72
    Double Standards.

    Warriors whine for most of expansion about mages and for a season about rogues, despite the fact that any warrior who truly knew how to play didn't have half as much trouble against mages as others would make you think.

    Now warriors get incredible buffs, huge increase in mobility and survivability and burst damage comparable to a bugged hunter, capable of taking out 220k+ in a couple of globals.

    All of a sudden everything is fine, everyone else is expected to grin and bare it whiles hunters and warriors macro their way to T2 and titles because somehow they deserve godmode for being bad in the past.

    Erm...No.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Norzuk View Post
    Bad warriors were last season. That was really bad. Now warriors are fun to play again, and there are lots of people complaining because they can't faceroll they keyboard to kill us now. OMG I have to use cooldowns to kill a warrior, wtf blizz? NERF NERF NERF.

    Thats stupid, warriors are competitive again. Learn to use dispersion when warriors get AVATAR, is it that hard to see the dude become gray as a statue? Is it hard to see that HUGE white shield over our heads?

    I think every single class in this game have a defensive cooldown. If you died to a warrior because you didn't use your freaking CD you diserve to burn in hell. And stop whining.

    Warriors poped CD:

    Rogues: can dismantle, and evasion isnt a defensive CD against warrior, sorry if you do use it, ur bad.
    Priests: Dispersion
    Warriors: Shield wall, die by the sword
    DK: Icebound, stun
    Pallies: boubles
    Mages: iceblock, ring of frost, pollymorph
    Hunter: Deterrance, disengage, scatter shot, dispell enrage
    Druid: bear form, run away, w/e


    We need to work on some utillity/control skills, not our dmg.
    i like how 'fun to play' means 'ludicrously overtuned' to most people. i'm sorry. but the game isn't supposed to work that way. there needs to be balance.

    i'm glad warriors are good again, seeing some of my diehard warrior friends feeling useless and unwanted was just awful for me because ret was having such a great season for a change. everyone deserves to be viable for 3v3/5v5/rbgs. its just there is a difference between 'viable' and 'overpowered'

    there is very little skill involved in playing a warrior right now. a lot of people have outlined the problems and all of us seem to have the same opinion

    the cooldown stacking is pretty insane, even at the height of ret burst in s10/s11 they were not that bad. unlike warrand hunter burst, rets were imminently controllable during their burst. avatar kind of makes that impossible.

    i personally don't think second wind is a huge problem, but its very frustrating to fight against because its a huge deterrent for training the warrior. but on the other hand, with warrior damage the way it is, the only way to control the warrior is often to train it. and that gets you nowhere.

    gag order should not be in the game, or at least it should be prot only. it does not reward skill in the slightest from either player.

    shockwave is a HUGE issue, its not DRed to a lot of other stuns and its frontal cone ability on such a short cd makes in incredibly powerful compared to every other stun in the game.

    oh, and paladin bubble against a warrior? lol? that might buy me 2 seconds for shattering throw to kite around a pillar, but the way gap closers are right now i'm going to die very quickly.
    Last edited by kosechi; 2012-10-09 at 04:32 PM.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    i like how 'fun to play' means 'ludicrously overtuned' to most people. i'm sorry. but the game isn't supposed to work that way. there needs to be balance.

    i'm glad warriors are good again, seeing some of my diehard warrior friends feeling useless and unwanted was just awful for me because ret was having such a great season for a change. everyone deserves to be viable for 3v3/5v5/rbgs. its just there is a difference between 'viable' and 'overpowered'

    there is very little skill involved in playing a warrior right now. a lot of people have outlined the problems and all of us seem to have the same opinion

    the cooldown stacking is pretty insane, even at the height of ret burst in s10/s11 they were not that bad. unlike ret and hunter burst, rets were imminently controllable during their burst. avatar kind of makes that impossible.

    i personally don't think second wind is a huge problem, but its very frustrating to fight against because its a huge deterrent for training the warrior. but on the other hand, with warrior damage the way it is, the only way to control the warrior is often to train it. and that gets you nowhere.

    gag order should not be in the game, or at least it should be prot only. it does not reward skill in the slightest from either player.

    shockwave is a HUGE issue, its not DRed to a lot of other stuns and its frontal cone ability on such a short cd makes in incredibly powerful compared to every other stun in the game.

    oh, and paladin bubble against a warrior? lol? that might buy me 2 seconds for shattering throw to kite around a pillar, but the way gap closers are right now i'm going to die very quickly.
    "the cooldown stacking is pretty insane" - Agree. We need sustained, not burst.

    "gag order should not be in the game" - Do not agree. Since the MS nerf is the only way to kill a healer, and combined to spell reflect is the only way to defend ourselves from massive spell dmg. However I agree two silences in one gliph is too much. Just one is enoug.

    "shockwave is a HUGE issue" - I would reduce 4 s stun to 2 s stun but wouldn't mess with CD, shockwave is good for tanking, that would mess with PVE.

    Guys, am I that wrong? I agree warriors are a lil bit out of control, part is players need to adapt to the way warriors are right now, part is blizz needing to rework some abilities. As I said before.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Norzuk View Post
    "the cooldown stacking is pretty insane" - Agree. We need sustained, not burst.

    "gag order should not be in the game" - Do not agree. Since the MS nerf is the only way to kill a healer, and combined to spell reflect is the only way to defend ourselves from massive spell dmg. However I agree two silences in one gliph is too much. Just one is enoug.

    "shockwave is a HUGE issue" - I would reduce 4 s stun to 2 s stun but wouldn't mess with CD, shockwave is good for tanking, that would mess with PVE.

    Guys, am I that wrong? I agree warriors are a lil bit out of control, part is players need to adapt to the way warriors are right now, part is blizz needing to rework some abilities. As I said before.
    other tanks work just fine with single target stuns on longer cooldowns then shockwave ( paladin 1 min/30 sec talented. dk 1 min talented, druid, 50 sec talented, don't know about brewmaster i have no played one but i assume it is similar) you really don't need an undispellable frontal cone on a 20 second cooldown for pve or pvp. upping the cd to 30-45 seconds would be ideal.

    i'm not saying get rid of the silence on heroic throw, i'm saying blanket silence on pummel is unfair, unneeded, and doesn't promote skillful play. other melee do just fine without these things, why do warriors feel entitled to such an awesome toy? why not give it to ret who already is at a significant disadvantage against casters? or enhance, who deserve to be top tier again?
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Norzuk View Post
    So PVP in this game is like: I kill you, Your class is fine. You kill me OMG NERFBAT! And yeah... lots of pathing problems with heroic leap. Sometimes there is a tiny stone on the way, you use heroic leap and it says "No path available!". It doesn't work most of the times on ramps, and lots of players use that on their advantage.


    you seriously think that's true?? noone's complaining about a warrior being able to kill someone, it's THE FACT THAT THEY GOT AN INSANE AMOUNT OF CC AT THE SAME TIME WHICH DOESNT EVEN SHARE DR AND ALMOST 100% UPTIME ON THEIR TARGET. how can i make myself clearer??

    just fucking face it you narrowminded stupid warrior, your class is op, by saying the warrior class is fine right now you just make a fool out of yourself. you're so desperate, trying to prove everyone wrong by saying that warriors are FINE RIGHT NOW, trying to prove your points in stupid ways. seriously, get a fucking grip man.

    either you're stupid or you're just really bad, but either way, do something constructive while you're still op. go get that 1750 achievement in 2v2 while you still can.


    we can't seriously make ourselves more clear than we already have, so the only problem still remaining is that you refuse to see that your class is unbalanced right now.

    -edit-
    just saw your previous post, we need to adapt? adapt how? should we all start playing warriors, or should we only team up with warriors? im confused..
    Last edited by Obelodalix; 2012-10-11 at 04:26 PM.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    other tanks work just fine with single target stuns on longer cooldowns then shockwave ( paladin 1 min/30 sec talented. dk 1 min talented, druid, 50 sec talented, don't know about brewmaster i have no played one but i assume it is similar) you really don't need an undispellable frontal cone on a 20 second cooldown for pve or pvp. upping the cd to 30-45 seconds would be ideal.

    i'm not saying get rid of the silence on heroic throw, i'm saying blanket silence on pummel is unfair, unneeded, and doesn't promote skillful play. other melee do just fine without these things, why do warriors feel entitled to such an awesome toy? why not give it to ret who already is at a significant disadvantage against casters? or enhance, who deserve to be top tier again?
    Please, the classes have dif mechanics. Paladins and DKs are way better AoE tanks, always have, messing with Shockwave will affect warrior tanking, and I'd rather not touch that.

    A silence is the only way to kill a healer without MS. I dare you play a PVP warrior without that gliph and see how fun it is.

    ANY serious PVPer will have these choices as warrior:

    - Human
    - Arms
    - Gag Order
    - Double Time / Juggernaught
    - Mass Spell Reflect / Safeguard (for arenas if you have a healer)
    - Second Wind
    - Shock Wave
    - Stagering shout
    - Avatar

    Here is the #1 warrior (2539) so far Worldwide, he is #66 amongst other classes:

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...s/Gloyn/simple

    Why human? Look at his trinkets!

  18. #78
    The Patient Lockrocker75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norzuk View Post
    I'll just answer with a "L2P". Just because warriors are doing good dmg now doesn't mean we are overpowered. You are one of those: "If I kill a you, then your class is fine... L2P, if you kill me your class is broken wa wa wa wa!"

    I heard it from a mage the other day: "Warriors are too strong". And I said: "Why?". replied: "Because one just killed me." OMG!!! A warrior finally killed you? You know how long we stayed rooted in place looking at you jumping and vomiting icelances at our faces without being able to do s#%#t !? Now that we have finally a chance to get close to you and swing an Axe at your face you are mad? Give me a break.

    BTW, good mages can still kite a warrior to death. Hunters can still. Dks, also. Priests... whoelse?

    Well at least now we have tools to survive while not in range.

    For those who think SW is broken. STFU and L2P. If you nuke a 100% HP warrior down to 30% let me tell you something: "You are retarded" cause now you can't kill it. If you burn your CD when a warrior is at 30-40% HP than you get a kill.

    If by the time a warrior reaches 35% HP you have no CD left, you are dead.
    You couldn't of said it any better.

    And do you notice all the one bashing on warriors are neglecting on saying what class they play? If I had to guess it's all the mages of WoW.
    Last edited by Lockrocker75; 2012-10-09 at 05:30 PM.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by xDD View Post
    we can't seriously make ourselves more clear than we already have, so the only problem still remaining is that you refuse to see that your class is unbalanced right now.


    -edit-
    just saw your previous post, we need to adapt? adapt how? should we all start playing warriors, or should we only team up with warriors? im confused..
    You don't see my other posts. I just think people are complaining too much. And by adapt I mean: Save your burst to finish the warrior. Learn to counter our CD. Stop pressing only Howling blast like its your only key and put your brain to work. My guildmates oftenly kill other warriors, not all, not all the time, but they do. And I do lose 1v1, I do not end every BG 20-0 like I saw mages doing last season almost evey BG.

  20. #80
    A silence is the only way to kill a healer without MS. I dare you play a PVP warrior without that gliph and see how fun it is.
    It will be as fun as every single other classes, because healing is way too strong right now and only warrior and hunters are able to kill them consistently because their damages are also completely retarded.

    Also, gag order isnt only about killing healer, it lock down every caster and can even be used against hybrid like Ret and DK, the glyph is an abomination that need to go, or double the cooldown of every spell it modifies.

    Also, like said above, "adapting" right now is pretty simple, play with a hunter, warrior, or die.

    You don't see my other posts. I just think people are complaining too much. And by adapt I mean: Save your burst to finish the warrior. Learn to counter our CD. Stop pressing only Howling blast like its your only key and put your brain to work. My guildmates oftenly kill other warriors, not all, not all the time, but they do. And I do lose 1v1, I do not end every BG 20-0 like I saw mages doing last season almost evey BG.
    If you keep your CD for the last 35%, how are you supposed to drop down the first 65% ? What happen if the warrior is as smart as you and keep his CD for HIS last 35% ?
    "Counter our CD" is as empty any advice can be
    I dont think he ever said anywhere that he "press howling blast like it's his only key"
    The fact your guildmate often kill warriors does not mean warrior is balanced, I see a lot of awful warrior climbing the ladder with ease, with a bit of luck, actual good players can kill these people. That do not mean it's balanced.
    Last edited by Gangresnake; 2012-10-09 at 05:36 PM.

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