warriors do not do any more damage then any other class.warriors have great burst every 5 mins when we cd stack.other classes like locks,priests,mages and dks,have that burst on demand.i got to shot by a mage yesterday,go figure.i think warriors got buffed to be in-line with other classes that i brought up.so no warriors are no op'ed,but rather balanced with other classes.
god i almost forgot to bring up Bm hunters lol.wt=hey with out question do more damage/burst then a warrior can dream about.there self healing is also very good.
Besides that, rogues didn't "ruin the game" as much as it's currently being ruined. Even at their peak (S11), there were a great deal of other viable classes. Like, R1 viable, if it weren't for the stagnated mmr pool ruining competition (Blizzard's fault that first month imbalances carry on to end-of-season rewards, not players'). Actually, I think every single class aside from warriors still had a viable comp. Turn the page to today, and good luck getting anywhere without a warrior or hunter on your team. Certainly there are a few caster comps, but they are a small minority. Warriors had a crap expansion for PvP. I get it. That doesn't mean you get to be the only PvP class now.
I never defended rogues at any point during Cataclysm, or probably ever, buy why would it matter anyway? You think warriors' current state somehow only affects Cataclysm rogue players? I legitimately want competitive balance, and I feel like except for warriors, bm hunters, and possibly frost mages, balance may be as good as it's been. And maybe a few other things like priest healer buffs, but the point is most classes seem to be pretty close to each other. I don't care in the slightest what's been overpowered in the past. Sure, if the game could've been balanced completely from day one, that would be awesome, but it wasn't and that's in the past. What we can and should strive for is better balance today and in the future. You're probably right though--all anyone cares about is feeling good about themselves as they skillessly destroy people.
Mages are a touchy subject. I've always hated the deep freeze burst model, but Blizzard very clearly likes it. The thing is it's counterable. Not in 1v1, but in team play you can have every frost bomb dispelled as it lands. Or you can blanket silence the duration of eny deep on a teammate. I'm not a big fan of the design either, but it can be dealt with which is all that matters in competitive teamplay. Your options for surviving stampede or avatar & reck are more limited.
Last edited by asb; 2012-10-10 at 02:44 PM.
---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 02:40 PM ----------
Last edited by Dcruize; 2012-10-10 at 03:04 PM.
Stormscale Horde EU | http://lastrogue.com
The irony in your post is quite hilarious. If you don't see the point of these threads why did you post? If they are full kids why did you post the most childish reply in the thread? You obviously don't care for balance and have nothing constructive to say, so why post?
Warriors need to be tuned, this is universally known by the player base. With the exception of the Warriors out there that truly think that they suddenly got good at the game.
Sigh... Warriors. Warriors are easily snared, thats about it. A warrior paired with a class that can break snares off of other friendlies (a lot of classes can do that these days) means Warrior is about to smash your face in.
But why are they smashing faces so hard to begin with? For one executes damage is way to over the top. As a Ret, my execute (Hammer of Wrath) crits for about 45-55k with every CD possible in use, including external ones such as a battleground zerker buff. Warriors 150k+ when all of their CD's are popped. And their executes hit for about as much as my HoW does when all my CD's are up and none of their's are.
The problem is Warrior's sustained damage is REALLY GOOD, but they also have really good burst now thanks to Avatar. (Do PvP warriors even pick the other 2 talents?) They also got increased mobility thanks to War Banners/Safeguard. They gained all these benefits, but lost nothing in return. Lets add it up real quick:
-Increased Mobility (War Banners)
-Increased Burst (Avatar)
-Increased Sustained Damage (??)
-Increased Execution Damage (WTFM8)
-Almost immune to fears (Zerker Rage thing)
-Self-Healing that requires no up keep by the Warriors (Second Wind)
-Other methods of Self-Healing (Victory Rush, bloody bandage glyph)
-Awesome survival cooldowns (Shield Wall, Mass Spell Reflect, Rallying Cry, etc.)
-Plenty of CC to push out (AoE/Cone Stun, AoE fear, ranged silence/interrupt, Pummel, charge stuns/interrupts)
The problem is pretty obvious. You can disagree with me on the points above, but all remain true. I will admit there probably are some cons that I'm missing, but that list of pro's is why Warrior is now almost the most represented class in PvP. Just out of fun, I'll list my class that I play and list it's pro's and cons for comparison. (I will try my best to not be biased.)
Practically immune to snares/roots (clemency/freedom/emancipation)
High burst damage (Wings/Guardian)
Good Self-Healing (WoG/Selfless Healer/Flash of Light)
Decent mobility (thanks to first tier talents)
Good utility (freedom,protection,sacrifice)
"Second Chance" (Bubble/Lay on Hands)
-Easily blanketed/interrupted/silenced (to prevent freedom, WoG, Flash of Light, emancipation, protection, etc. basically half of our abilities)
-Easily purged/spell stolen/dispelled
-Can be mass dispelled by Warriors/Priests to remove one of our 'second chances'
-Weak CC (Repentence/BL can easily be broken, FoJ is the only decent CC we own)
-WEAK sustained damage (virtually no threat during downtime on wings/guardian/trinket)
-Weak execution style ability (See in above post about my HoW's)
-No natural CC breaker other than bubble. (Example would be mages blink to get out of stuns, warriors zerker rage thing to get out of fear, etc.)
-Lack of a 'good' gap closer (Running at your target at 35% increased movement speed doesn't even compare to instantly charging into your opponent, regardless if you get stunned in the middle of doing it or not)
-Can be mana burned (you may laugh at this one, but being mana burned really does hurt us)
The problem is that Warriors have this huge list of really good pros, but a very short list (Even if I added more it wouldn't be that long of a list) of cons.
Last edited by Xl House lX; 2012-10-10 at 03:40 PM.
Call me House.
I just wanted to put the finger on what I think is the main problem. with my bad anglish, my grain of salt and my French touche.
What about balance between war, rogues and mage if other spec/classes are left in their usual shit?
I see people put the blames on players, calling names etc... but players dont tweeks the game. Blizzard did. 1v1 exemple, pvp répercussion on pve... People just cant see further than their own nose! They a+b=win, think they are skilled and their classe is fine! And come here to see how many people agree with them.
But go on!! Continue arguing with your pros and cons on your pointless "players hate" and whatever else. For sure it will be very constructive, and the end of this will be good!! Lol
Last edited by Groh; 2012-10-10 at 05:34 PM.
If your going to make a list of pros/cons and compare classes at least ATTEMPT to be objective. You mention bloody healing glyph for warrior healing as a pro, I pray your joking. Yet you make no mention of rets ungodly offhealing abilities to teammates where in 3s rets often are near the healers on total healing.
"No natural cc breaker other than bubble" as a con for ret, yet you have 2 hand of sacrifices, and apparently wars have ways to get out of cc like poly because thats not a con for them..
Im not defending wars here, we are slightly overpowered but mostly from cd stacking and a too short cd on shockwave. Still, in the order of overpowered classes, we are still only 3rd at best.
Oh, and lol mana burn..
And even if they had been complete useless shit for every single previous season that doesnt justify them being overpowered right now.
Nothing would ever be balanced if you decided nerfs/buffs on who was op/weak the previous seasons.
Thats just common sense and you Warriors have to stop being dumb and find better excuses to try and dodge the nerfbat.
---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 06:02 PM ----------
Last edited by Nyon; 2012-10-10 at 06:03 PM.
why would you spec dragonroar? its vastly inferior to shockwave.
i'm pretty sure druids can dispel curses bro.not even knowing that druids didnt have magic dispell up to wotlk shows that u are a very bad arena player. pls stop commenting, as u dont even know how the classes u suppose to be op work. Its really sadl that people that have no clue have the same right to speak like people that actually know what they are talking about. And more sad, is that other not so clueful people might believe what people like the quoted one write.
bring the light.
Warriors only good seasons were 6/7(That is if you weren't playing some piece of shit cleaveteam with a DK or Enh sham). Everytime outside of those was when warriors were stupidly overpowered to the point where some idiot who rerolled fotm in 3 days could get gladiator with no knowledge of the class other than knowing which DPS cooldowns to pop and who to train all while getting freedom from their pally-pocket.
Cata S9 is one of those seasons as is S8(ArP heroes much?) and S3(which was moreso skillherald).
Then you have the benched seasons like S5 where nobody but pallys and DKs could compete, unless you were a hard counter, and the last 2 seasons of Cata.
I don't play anymore, but I'll just assume warrior damage is retarded high right now and then once the season is over Blizzard is just going shit on the class for PvP and shove it back into PvE as they did in Cata. I still can't believe people haven't caught on that Blizzard gives 0 shit about PvP.
"It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~Mark Twain
Did you try to jump one while he was questing or something? Players don't generate vengeance for tank specs anymore.
Ultimate Pussy Class gets some of the best defensive cooldowns in the game, maintains one of the strongest offenses in the game, and could leave a fight whenever the hell they wanted to.
Instead of all of you who use so many words to introduce nothing new to this "discussion".
I've never cared about game balance. Didn't care last season, or the season before and I played a Warrior. Why should I? Do your tears have magical properties that suddenly just get classes nerfed? Can I get some of that? Because them Hunters are really pissing me off with Double Deterrence.
What's that, they dont? Well, shucks.
...so you're just sitting here, "contributing" to a thread by incessantly bitching at people and trying to make them feel bad for having fun, because you think your rating in arena or gladiator title makes your $15 worth more than someone else's $15.
If you want to make a consolidated list of things that should be changed, which would obviously need to be posted by an experienced player of the Warrior class to prevent being a list of full retard class-breaking changes, that would be fine. But this? This is just a whine thread.
in open world pvp/bgs, Ret has been one of the strongest, sturdiest specs since the Wrath prepatch.
It is better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for who you are not.
"It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~Mark Twain