View Poll Results: Is the end of used games a good thing for us?

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  • Yes. Companies will be able to get more money for their titles so they can make more great games

    48 11.35%
  • No, I want to be able to sell my old games I have no use for. Companies be damned.

    283 66.90%
  • I really just... Could not care less.

    92 21.75%
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  1. #1

    End of used games. For or Against?

    It's no secret that the used game industry is walking dead. Publishers see a billion dollar industry that they get no part of and want a slice of the pie.

    My question is whether most people see this as a good or bad thing.

    Pros:
    • Money going to the actual developers of the games we love
    • Them getting more money from their own games opens the possibility (but obviously not the guarantee) of reduced prices on new games.
    • No benefits to buying used games means digital distribution becomes the primary mode of game sales.

    Cons:
    • Nothing to do with games once they've been purchased and we have no use for them.
    • No guarantee that publishers will reduce retail prices
    • No matter who wins in this, EA is still an awful company (this is a con in ANY debate about video games)

  2. #2
    It's bad for the consumer and will never benefit the consumer.
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  3. #3
    The Patient Eothekingslayer's Avatar
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    I only play PC games so I never trade games in anyway. But I do think having used games die out will only hurt the video game industry.
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  4. #4
    They may get more money but I highly doubt budgets are going to increase enough for us to see a real change, only corporate paychecks and rapid absorption of smaller development companies.
    One cannot simply quit wow his way into Mordor.

  5. #5
    Brewmaster ridish's Avatar
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    If i buy a car i expect to be able to sell it when i no longer need it or get my hands on a better car. the same goes with games, i bought the game i should be able to do whatever i want to do with it.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Eothekingslayer View Post
    I only play PC games so I never trade games in anyway. But I do think having used games die out will only hurt the video game industry.
    I dunno. The makers of Hard Rain (a game I never played but understand to be quite excellent) points out that while they sold 2 million copies of the game, their trophy system showed 3 million had played it. Missing out on a full third of your customers is a pretty tough pill to just swallow.

  7. #7
    Warchief tommypilgrim's Avatar
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    Against, 100%.

    Sorry, but the companies make their money from the ridiculous price of the first sale. When games are nearing £50 a go it is immoral to complain about people buying second hand. Perhaps if the initial sale price was significantly cheaper people wouldn't be as tempted to wait for a used copy.

    This all ties in with ridiculous notions of copyright, where we are unable to burn DVDs to our computers. Once you buy something it should be yours, it should not be sold under licence, prohibiting you from making fair use of it in whichever way you see fit, or preventing you from selling it when done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    I dunno. The makers of Hard Rain (a game I never played but understand to be quite excellent) points out that while they sold 2 million copies of the game, their trophy system showed 3 million had played it. Missing out on a full third of your customers is a pretty tough pill to just swallow.
    That shows a million people thought the initial price was fucking stupid. Would those people have bought at full price? Of course not, but perhaps they might have if the price had been lower, around used copy levels. Again, it draws parallels with copyright, not every downloaded song is a missed sale. Perhaps if they were at a price worth paying people would have bought the thing instead.
    Last edited by tommypilgrim; 2012-06-13 at 02:52 PM.
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  8. #8
    Considering that PC games are the only "artistic trade good" concerned by this matter, its a BAD thing!

    Personally i used to sell single player games quite often and buy other used single player games, mostly when i am not really interested in the game, but still felt like playing throught for the story.

    games i buy new are games i am really interested in, and i likely play more then once.

    But i see a bigger "issue" on the con side of things, there are shops, online and real stores, which had, as a big part of their business, the buying and selling of used games, and those shops will die out, which is a shame.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    I dunno. The makers of Hard Rain (a game I never played but understand to be quite excellent) points out that while they sold 2 million copies of the game, their trophy system showed 3 million had played it. Missing out on a full third of your customers is a pretty tough pill to just swallow.
    You seem to think the full third would have bought the game at full price if it wasn't for piracy/selling used games.
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  10. #10
    I buy all my games new. However, I don't usually buy them when they are released for $60, because I think it's a ridiculous price for most games. The only exceptions are those I've heard good things about and know I will get 50+ hours of fun with (i.e. Skyrim).

    That said, I think restricting used sales is a crock of horse shit. Used sales is a huge motivating force in driving down the retail sticker price that I use to buy most of my games 6-12 months after a release. In addition, there is virtually a zero percent chance that publishers are going to lower initial retail prices on these games if they restrict used games. On top of that, they are going to continue to ramp up the consumer-derisive practice of withholding completed content for release as DLC in their attempts to make $100+ for each copy of a game.

  11. #11
    The Insane
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    I dunno. The makers of Hard Rain (a game I never played but understand to be quite excellent) points out that while they sold 2 million copies of the game, their trophy system showed 3 million had played it. Missing out on a full third of your customers is a pretty tough pill to just swallow.
    Heavy Rain, not Hard Rain :P

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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by kazih View Post
    You seem to think the full third would have bought the game at full price if it wasn't for piracy/selling used games.
    Whether they would have or not is irrelevant. They have nothing to lose by preventing used game sales and everything to gain. If all they do is piss off pirates and people who didn't pay them anyway, why should they care?

    It's not like used game stores pay anything close to reasonable amounts for used games that would deter people from buying in the first place.
    Last edited by Laize; 2012-06-13 at 02:55 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Pros:
    • Money going to the actual developers of the games we love
    • Them getting more money from their own games opens the possibility (but obviously not the guarantee) of reduced prices on new games.
    • No benefits to buying used games means digital distribution becomes the primary mode of game sales.
    How are those pros? It's clear by now that developers get very little if any of the profits from game sales. Publishers will never reduce prices on new games while they're selling as they are now, recently EA confirmed this by attacking Steam's sales saying that they reduce the value of IP; EA would rather have less customers paying more for the game.

    Digital distribution (Steam sales, Humble Indie Bundle, gog.com and anything similar excluded of course) sucks because you don't get manuals, soundtracks or any interesting stuff like you do with boxed games and yet the prices are the same if not more for than buying a boxed version from Amazon.

  14. #14
    Epic! Iceleaf's Avatar
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    Heres what I do:

    -I never torrent/download games "illegally". The ONLY exceptions might be old games from 80's or 90's..aka the games that "are no longer produced" or even remade.

    -If game is new, I buy it new. This depends a lot tho, I'm not sure how much money would bethesda still get from skyrim or something, you know? Gladly I'm mostly PC gamer so when I buy from steam or similiar, I know they get at least something..even if game is older.

    -If the game is something I simply cant find anywhere any longer (console games dont exactly stay on shelves for more than year..) or its one of those "looks cool but meh". Recent examples: Killzone 2, Enslaved, Dead rising 2(was before re-release) etc.

    -I never sell my games. I'm collector, enough said.

    Am I against used games? Not really, no. But I do think there should be some period of time where you cant sell them. Its so odd to go to gamestop and see brand new game on used shelf..but with 5 euros less on the price if that :s and not only odd, I think its just stupid slap to face to devs. But hey, money can be tight.



    Quote Originally Posted by emanresu View Post
    Digital distribution (Steam sales, Humble Indie Bundle, gog.com and anything similar excluded of course) sucks because you don't get manuals, soundtracks or any interesting stuff like you do with boxed games and yet the prices are the same if not more for than buying a boxed version from Amazon.
    You mean the manual that has epilepsy warning, basic UI explains, credits, adverts for other games and "notes"? The manuals these days are 6 pages long man. And there are no OST's inside em 99% of the time unless its collectors edition, which is totally different case (and digital CE can also contain OST..)
    Last edited by Iceleaf; 2012-06-13 at 03:03 PM.
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  15. #15
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
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    I am completely against corporate greed in almost all forms, but I am absolutely on board with killing used games. Gamestop pulls billions out of the video games industry. Obviously not all that money is going to reach the hands of developers, but they are pulling millions out of the pockets of the folks that make that games so that people can save all of $3-5 on a used game (not counting reselling it for $20-25 if bought new). I am sick to death of Gamestop. Without them the cost of games would likely decrease, DLC would be less prevalent, etc.

  16. #16
    The Patient Truhan's Avatar
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    On your first pro, the money wouldn't go to the actual developers, it would go to the publishers. The current publishing system in the video game industry is so broken it's unbelievable and it's the reason that many developers (Iron Lore, Amplitude, Grinding Gear Games, etc.) are forced to go indie to make the games they want/are good at making/are in a niche genre/are not a yearly exploitable franchise.

    Also, obligatory:
    http://www.the-ghetto.org/content/us...iracy-part-one
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Heavy Rain, not Hard Rain :P
    See? Didn't play :P

    ---------- Post added 2012-06-13 at 02:58 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Truhan View Post
    On your first pro, the money wouldn't go to the actual developers, it would go to the publishers. The current publishing system in the video game industry is so broken it's unbelievable and it's the reason that many developers (Iron Lore, Amplitude, Grinding Gear Games, etc.) are forced to go indie to make the games they want/are good at making/are in a niche genre/are not a yearly exploitable franchise.

    Also, obligatory:
    http://www.the-ghetto.org/content/us...iracy-part-one
    Extra new sales do go to developers in the form of royalties. Granted its only a percentage, but it's there.

  18. #18
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridish View Post
    If i buy a car i expect to be able to sell it when i no longer need it or get my hands on a better car. the same goes with games, i bought the game i should be able to do whatever i want to do with it.
    I see that comparison so much, but it couldn't be more wrong. The useful life of a car vastly, vastly outweighs the useful life of a video game. It is a comparison of a product meant to last weeks to months as compared to a product meant to last years to decades. It is an absurd comparison.

    I think I would be fine with the entire used games thing if Gamestop didn't exist. If it was just gamers selling to other gamers on eBay, Amazon, etc. that would be fine, but Gamestop makes billions of dollars by acting as a middle man between people selling their games for too little and people buying the games for way too much.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by emanresu View Post
    How are those pros? It's clear by now that developers get very little if any of the profits from game sales. Publishers will never reduce prices on new games while they're selling as they are now, recently EA confirmed this by attacking Steam's sales saying that they reduce the value of IP; EA would rather have less customers paying more for the game.

    Digital distribution (Steam sales, Humble Indie Bundle, gog.com and anything similar excluded of course) sucks because you don't get manuals, soundtracks or any interesting stuff like you do with boxed games and yet the prices are the same if not more for than buying a boxed version from Amazon.
    EA makes awful games and need every penny they can get to keep them in the black with their 1.8% profit margins.

    Meanwhile most game developers (except EA and Blizzard) are chomping at the bit to get their stuff distributed on Steam.

  20. #20
    Getting rid of used games won't lower the price of new games. Companies aren't losing so much money on used game sales that they're forced to raise new game prices to break even. Game price is set by market research and competitor pricing. So long as people keep buying games at $60, they'll keep selling games at $60. If Activision started selling at $50, EA and Ubisoft and others would follow suit.

    The only way to get people to stop making shitty games is to stop buying shitty games, new or used. And if it's shitty, let them know why in a helpful and constructive manner, instead of providing no feedback or just simply cursing them out.

    I see a lot of hate directed towards the big companies, but so much of it is undeserved. Most times they're just publishing the game and their corporate heads and stockholders have almost no say in what goes on in development. I'd bet they say little more than, "Here's some money for your game, now go make us a lot more money." If the developer doesn't, they're finished. That's business. Most of this nickel and diming comes from the developers, not the publishers. I don't think that EA or Activision has monthly quota of DLC they force upon their developers.

    So many people seem unwilling to blame the developers for their mistakes and greed and focus on the nameless, faceless corporation. Place blame where it belongs: on the people making the game.

    All of these publishers, EA, Activision, etc. are businesses. They're going to do what it takes to make a profit

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